Comments on: The New York Times of Cable News http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/10056.html Some Chicago Boyz know each other from student days at the University of Chicago. Others are Chicago boys in spirit. The blog name is also intended as a good-humored gesture of admiration for distinguished Chicago boys including those pictured above. Mon, 21 May 2012 17:30:32 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.4 By: Ginny http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/10056.html/comment-page-1#comment-329172 Ginny Tue, 10 Nov 2009 20:28:48 +0000 http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=10056#comment-329172 If you don't think the major networks still speak to a large number of people, I might point out that two of my students have commented on the shooter as being stressed out, post-traumatic, etc. etc. Both said they had heard the incident had nothing to do with Muslims or extremism. They had not heard any basic fact that would have altered that view (what he said as he began shooting, the bizarre presentations, the history of the mosque he attended, his sense sharia law should be held above the Constitution - it isn't like there's one stray fact they somehow hadn't heard). They thought they knew - that's the distressing fact. At some schools that might not mean much, but I don't think we are a hundred miles from Fort Hood and every semester a few veterans are in each class. This isn't some elite school buffered from the real world. I suspect they are more likely to watch Fox than students at a more upscale place. Sure, out of concern for the truth, a breadth of vision, and the feelings of their Muslim classmates, I can see how there shouldn't be blanket condemnations. I didn't bring these up in class and it wasn't in class discussion that these remarks were made. But the truth is the truth - and as our founders believed, it will out. Censoring news is likely to have two deleterious effects - lead to a certain paranoia, which might well take the form of lumping the "other" together because we are denied knowledge of the markers that differentiate believers from fanatics; second, it seems to encourage a sense of aggrievement that is not likely to be healthy, either. (And I realize as I write this that the aggrievement is likely to be true of both Muslims - who are told that they are probably the subjects of harrassmemt and so see it everywhere - and of fairly ordinary people, who feel they are being deprived of the truth, suspected of having evil motives, and patronized. I don't see amy possible good result of a refusal to face facts. If you don’t think the major networks still speak to a large number of people, I might point out that two of my students have commented on the shooter as being stressed out, post-traumatic, etc. etc. Both said they had heard the incident had nothing to do with Muslims or extremism. They had not heard any basic fact that would have altered that view (what he said as he began shooting, the bizarre presentations, the history of the mosque he attended, his sense sharia law should be held above the Constitution – it isn’t like there’s one stray fact they somehow hadn’t heard). They thought they knew – that’s the distressing fact. At some schools that might not mean much, but I don’t think we are a hundred miles from Fort Hood and every semester a few veterans are in each class. This isn’t some elite school buffered from the real world. I suspect they are more likely to watch Fox than students at a more upscale place.

Sure, out of concern for the truth, a breadth of vision, and the feelings of their Muslim classmates, I can see how there shouldn’t be blanket condemnations. I didn’t bring these up in class and it wasn’t in class discussion that these remarks were made. But the truth is the truth – and as our founders believed, it will out. Censoring news is likely to have two deleterious effects – lead to a certain paranoia, which might well take the form of lumping the “other” together because we are denied knowledge of the markers that differentiate believers from fanatics; second, it seems to encourage a sense of aggrievement that is not likely to be healthy, either. (And I realize as I write this that the aggrievement is likely to be true of both Muslims – who are told that they are probably the subjects of harrassmemt and so see it everywhere – and of fairly ordinary people, who feel they are being deprived of the truth, suspected of having evil motives, and patronized. I don’t see amy possible good result of a refusal to face facts.

]]> By: Percy Dovetonsils http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/10056.html/comment-page-1#comment-329169 Percy Dovetonsils Tue, 10 Nov 2009 18:21:41 +0000 http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=10056#comment-329169 "Would be interesting to see some detailed demographics. I suspect many of the broadcast-news watchers are older people, who grew up on the 3 networks and still turn to them out of habit." One quick and easy way to check - see what commercials are being broadcast during Fox shows. (A quick perusal of the network news ads indicate that the Lawrence Welk Show would have younger demographics.) “Would be interesting to see some detailed demographics. I suspect many of the broadcast-news watchers are older people, who grew up on the 3 networks and still turn to them out of habit.”

One quick and easy way to check – see what commercials are being broadcast during Fox shows.

(A quick perusal of the network news ads indicate that the Lawrence Welk Show would have younger demographics.)

]]> By: Lorenz Gude http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/10056.html/comment-page-1#comment-329166 Lorenz Gude Tue, 10 Nov 2009 17:44:37 +0000 http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=10056#comment-329166 Because I live in Australia and only get back to the US every couple of years I hadn't realized how much market share Fox had gained. I used to think that because the US moved right during the Reagan years, and the MSM hadn't, Murdoch had simply moved into the available market share that wasn't being served. But it is clear now that it is more complex than that - Fox is doing something well enough so that Democrats are watching. I have reached no firm conclusion, but watching the Ft Hood coverage I could see clearly - indeed trust Fox - to not try to hurriedly explain away Hassan's actions. PTSD, workplace harassment....sure those factors might have been present but they were not the elephant in the room. It was clear from the beginning that because of the nature of the attack and the Muslim name that there might well be a totalitarian Muslim aspect to the attack. Fox's efforts to see if there was an such an angle immediately paid off in an interview with a retired coworker. I watched CNN and MSNBC continue to try to frame it as simply another workplace shooting, but was surprised and wryly amused when CNN beat everyone else to some convenience store footage of Hassan in impeccable Middle Eastern dress on the morning of the shootings. Looping that over and over finished the 'just another stress related workplace shooting' line. Pictures create THE lasting impression - just like showing burning US tanks for minutes at time did in 2004. (Just to make it clear - the convenience store footage gives the lasting impression of a radical Islamist, the burning tank footage gives the impression of American defeat without proving much about either.) Fox continued to dig as did CNN and I suppose MSNBC was forced to go along as the evidence of the Islamist nature of the attack mounted. What hadn't occurred to me before was that Fox was forcing the hands of the other cable networks - but at 60% market share that is not at all daft. If CNN had 60% or more, as they once did, I think they would have stuck with the soft line - and had the power to do so. Because I live in Australia and only get back to the US every couple of years I hadn’t realized how much market share Fox had gained. I used to think that because the US moved right during the Reagan years, and the MSM hadn’t, Murdoch had simply moved into the available market share that wasn’t being served. But it is clear now that it is more complex than that – Fox is doing something well enough so that Democrats are watching. I have reached no firm conclusion, but watching the Ft Hood coverage I could see clearly – indeed trust Fox – to not try to hurriedly explain away Hassan’s actions. PTSD, workplace harassment….sure those factors might have been present but they were not the elephant in the room. It was clear from the beginning that because of the nature of the attack and the Muslim name that there might well be a totalitarian Muslim aspect to the attack. Fox’s efforts to see if there was an such an angle immediately paid off in an interview with a retired coworker. I watched CNN and MSNBC continue to try to frame it as simply another workplace shooting, but was surprised and wryly amused when CNN beat everyone else to some convenience store footage of Hassan in impeccable Middle Eastern dress on the morning of the shootings. Looping that over and over finished the ‘just another stress related workplace shooting’ line. Pictures create THE lasting impression – just like showing burning US tanks for minutes at time did in 2004. (Just to make it clear – the convenience store footage gives the lasting impression of a radical Islamist, the burning tank footage gives the impression of American defeat without proving much about either.) Fox continued to dig as did CNN and I suppose MSNBC was forced to go along as the evidence of the Islamist nature of the attack mounted. What hadn’t occurred to me before was that Fox was forcing the hands of the other cable networks – but at 60% market share that is not at all daft. If CNN had 60% or more, as they once did, I think they would have stuck with the soft line – and had the power to do so.

]]> By: Alex Bensky http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/10056.html/comment-page-1#comment-329152 Alex Bensky Tue, 10 Nov 2009 03:19:44 +0000 http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=10056#comment-329152 Based on a recent Pew poll that showed that Fox's viewership is basically divided into thirds...Democrats, independents, and Republicans...whereas MSNBC and CNN are heavily Democratic or independent...well, I haven't pushed around the numbers but it could well be that more self-professed Democrats watch Fox than either of the other two. Based on a recent Pew poll that showed that Fox’s viewership is basically divided into thirds…Democrats, independents, and Republicans…whereas MSNBC and CNN are heavily Democratic or independent…well, I haven’t pushed around the numbers but it could well be that more self-professed Democrats watch Fox than either of the other two.

]]> By: Merrill Guice http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/10056.html/comment-page-1#comment-329139 Merrill Guice Mon, 09 Nov 2009 05:16:41 +0000 http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=10056#comment-329139 When CNN was in its infancy, the top dog there refused to allow the NYT to set his agenda. In Nicaragua, his instructions to the reporter on the ground was to ignore any story the pack was doing, get out in the countryside, and find real stories. Pretty soon, the pack was following CNN around. Of course, soon they fired the smart guy and brought in some "professionals" who improved things by making sure they read the NYT everyday. When CNN was in its infancy, the top dog there refused to allow the NYT to set his agenda. In Nicaragua, his instructions to the reporter on the ground was to ignore any story the pack was doing, get out in the countryside, and find real stories.

Pretty soon, the pack was following CNN around.

Of course, soon they fired the smart guy and brought in some “professionals” who improved things by making sure they read the NYT everyday.

]]> By: David Block http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/10056.html/comment-page-1#comment-329138 David Block Mon, 09 Nov 2009 04:06:11 +0000 http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=10056#comment-329138 Work schedule means that I get home AFTER the network "newscasts" are done. So if I want national news when I get home, the answer is cable, and usually FOX. MSDNC and CNN are down the list, after Bloomberg and even Headline News. Sometimes even the BBC is preferable. Work schedule means that I get home AFTER the network “newscasts” are done. So if I want national news when I get home, the answer is cable, and usually FOX. MSDNC and CNN are down the list, after Bloomberg and even Headline News. Sometimes even the BBC is preferable.

]]> By: PacRim Jim http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/10056.html/comment-page-1#comment-329123 PacRim Jim Sun, 08 Nov 2009 18:58:46 +0000 http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=10056#comment-329123 Stopped reading newspapers in the 1990s, when they became infuriatingly partisan. Thank you, U.S. taxpayers, for the Internet. Stopped reading newspapers in the 1990s, when they became infuriatingly partisan. Thank you, U.S. taxpayers, for the Internet.

]]> By: ic http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/10056.html/comment-page-1#comment-329120 ic Sun, 08 Nov 2009 18:50:46 +0000 http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=10056#comment-329120 "stolen"? Implying illegitimacy, no? How about "taken"? They have taken the tarnished crown from the NYT. Or "picked up"? Or "claimed"? Or ... Certainly not stolen. “stolen”? Implying illegitimacy, no? How about “taken”? They have taken the tarnished crown from the NYT. Or “picked up”? Or “claimed”? Or … Certainly not stolen.

]]> By: Koblog http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/10056.html/comment-page-1#comment-329114 Koblog Sun, 08 Nov 2009 17:38:03 +0000 http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=10056#comment-329114 Network news is really out of it. I have not watched a single broadcast in years and years, and I'm an "old guy." No way the younger crowd watches it. Too slow. Drudge is faster and even Drudge was slow to announce the health care bill passing Saturday night. Glenn Reynolds at Instapundit was there faster. Stuff happens in real time on Fox. Network news comes very late to the game. The game is also up for Network news when sock puppets like Charlie Gibson pretend they don't know anything about ACORN or Van Jones. They used to be able to control the news. Now network news is an also-ran. Network news is really out of it.

I have not watched a single broadcast in years and years, and I’m an “old guy.”

No way the younger crowd watches it. Too slow.

Drudge is faster and even Drudge was slow to announce the health care bill passing Saturday night. Glenn Reynolds at Instapundit was there faster.

Stuff happens in real time on Fox.

Network news comes very late to the game.

The game is also up for Network news when sock puppets like Charlie Gibson pretend they don’t know anything about ACORN or Van Jones.

They used to be able to control the news. Now network news is an also-ran.

]]> By: SenatorMark4 http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/10056.html/comment-page-1#comment-329113 SenatorMark4 Sun, 08 Nov 2009 17:31:07 +0000 http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=10056#comment-329113 Even though cable doesn't, perhaps, reach as many people as the broadcast outlets, they reach people that are passionate and care about American freedom...one way or another. It is obvious, to me, that the broadcast outlets are preaching to couch potatoes otherwise why couldn't they gin up more opposition to the tea partiers with their consistent bashing? The fact IS Fox is the only outlet which gives each side some time whether 'Giantslor' reckons it to be a wreck that people can't avoid watching. Of course it looks to be a wreck for him because the talking heads he supports (and will agree to appear!) are so roundly poor examples. He can always fall back and say the "principled Democrats" wouldn't never appear..to debate...on Fox, but that only shows their shallowness. Would you debate Hitler? Could you? Even though cable doesn’t, perhaps, reach as many people as the broadcast outlets, they reach people that are passionate and care about American freedom…one way or another. It is obvious, to me, that the broadcast outlets are preaching to couch potatoes otherwise why couldn’t they gin up more opposition to the tea partiers with their consistent bashing? The fact IS Fox is the only outlet which gives each side some time whether ‘Giantslor’ reckons it to be a wreck that people can’t avoid watching. Of course it looks to be a wreck for him because the talking heads he supports (and will agree to appear!) are so roundly poor examples. He can always fall back and say the “principled Democrats” wouldn’t never appear..to debate…on Fox, but that only shows their shallowness. Would you debate Hitler? Could you?

]]> By: JorgXMcKie http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/10056.html/comment-page-1#comment-329112 JorgXMcKie Sun, 08 Nov 2009 15:40:28 +0000 http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=10056#comment-329112 I gave up watching network national news a decade ago. I do watch the local news at 11. The national network news ceased being 'news' for the most part longer ago than that, it just took cable news and the Web to make it obvious. Even the early cable news was just full of 'network newscaster wannabes.' Now there is competition. I tend to get my news from the web, then watch/read traditional sources to see what the 'party line' is. even 50 years ago the 'news' [reporters, editors, etc] was full of outsiders. Somewhere around the mid-60s, the shift began. Those who wanted to 'do' the news signed up, mostly on one side, with 'the system' which mostly meant a 'liberal' worldview. Then, not only did they become earnest 'insiders' they became a fraternity who only let in 'our kind, dear'. Sad, but there you are. Or, here we are today, where the 'news' watchdog is more like a lapdog, concerned mostly with pleasing its master in hopes of getting the next treat. I gave up watching network national news a decade ago. I do watch the local news at 11.

The national network news ceased being ‘news’ for the most part longer ago than that, it just took cable news and the Web to make it obvious. Even the early cable news was just full of ‘network newscaster wannabes.’

Now there is competition. I tend to get my news from the web, then watch/read traditional sources to see what the ‘party line’ is.

even 50 years ago the ‘news’ [reporters, editors, etc] was full of outsiders. Somewhere around the mid-60s, the shift began. Those who wanted to ‘do’ the news signed up, mostly on one side, with ‘the system’ which mostly meant a ‘liberal’ worldview.

Then, not only did they become earnest ‘insiders’ they became a fraternity who only let in ‘our kind, dear’.

Sad, but there you are. Or, here we are today, where the ‘news’ watchdog is more like a lapdog, concerned mostly with pleasing its master in hopes of getting the next treat.

]]> By: david foster http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/10056.html/comment-page-1#comment-329111 david foster Sun, 08 Nov 2009 15:40:27 +0000 http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=10056#comment-329111 Would be interesting to see some detailed demographics. I suspect many of the broadcast-news watchers are older people, who grew up on the 3 networks and still turn to them out of habit. Would be interesting to see some detailed demographics. I suspect many of the broadcast-news watchers are older people, who grew up on the 3 networks and still turn to them out of habit.

]]> By: Grace http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/10056.html/comment-page-1#comment-329110 Grace Sun, 08 Nov 2009 15:16:45 +0000 http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=10056#comment-329110 I did find this interesting link: http://www.journalism.org/node/1363 It supports the 20 million viewers number for network news, but it makes the point that since cable news is always on, polls say more people respond that they regularly get their news from cable. I am still pretty shocked that many people watch network news. I haven't done that in at least 10 years. I did find this interesting link:
http://www.journalism.org/node/1363

It supports the 20 million viewers number for network news, but it makes the point that since cable news is always on, polls say more people respond that they regularly get their news from cable.

I am still pretty shocked that many people watch network news. I haven’t done that in at least 10 years.

]]> By: Mark http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/10056.html/comment-page-1#comment-329109 Mark Sun, 08 Nov 2009 15:11:33 +0000 http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=10056#comment-329109 Mike Allen of Politico was on a Fox program the other day. He looked like he wanted to be anywhere else. He also wasn't very good. Mike Allen of Politico was on a Fox program the other day. He looked like he wanted to be anywhere else. He also wasn’t very good.

]]> By: Grace http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/10056.html/comment-page-1#comment-329108 Grace Sun, 08 Nov 2009 15:11:16 +0000 http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=10056#comment-329108 Robert if you go to the original link at Powerline Blog, you will see that cable had about 7 million viewers not 4 million. Maybe this was just for that day due to the election? I don't know. Could you send a source link for your 20 million number? I am pretty shocked that regular network news gets that many viewers. Who are these people? Robert if you go to the original link at Powerline Blog, you will see that cable had about 7 million viewers not 4 million. Maybe this was just for that day due to the election? I don’t know. Could you send a source link for your 20 million number? I am pretty shocked that regular network news gets that many viewers. Who are these people?

]]> By: Shannon Love http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/10056.html/comment-page-1#comment-329100 Shannon Love Sat, 07 Nov 2009 21:54:41 +0000 http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=10056#comment-329100 Giantslor, <i> It’s such a trainwreck of sensationalism, naked GOP propaganda, and unstable personalities that they just can’t look away.</i> The funny/sad thing is that prior to the 1960's Fox would have been a Democrat associated outlet and Palin would have been a Democrat. Loud vulgarity is the very essence of America and American politics. At every revolutionary junction in history, you find loud, crude Americans overturning the world to the utter horror of the elites (especially European ones). There's a reason why Ragtime, Jazz, the Blues, Rock and Rap started in America and not Europe. Prior to the 1960's, Democrats not only identified ordinary Americans but venerated them. How times have changed. Now Democrats don't want to listen to anyone who didn't go to an Ivy League and earns less than six figures. Giantslor,

It’s such a trainwreck of sensationalism, naked GOP propaganda, and unstable personalities that they just can’t look away.

The funny/sad thing is that prior to the 1960′s Fox would have been a Democrat associated outlet and Palin would have been a Democrat. Loud vulgarity is the very essence of America and American politics. At every revolutionary junction in history, you find loud, crude Americans overturning the world to the utter horror of the elites (especially European ones). There’s a reason why Ragtime, Jazz, the Blues, Rock and Rap started in America and not Europe.

Prior to the 1960′s, Democrats not only identified ordinary Americans but venerated them. How times have changed. Now Democrats don’t want to listen to anyone who didn’t go to an Ivy League and earns less than six figures.

]]> By: giantslor http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/10056.html/comment-page-1#comment-329094 giantslor Sat, 07 Nov 2009 15:48:13 +0000 http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=10056#comment-329094 "The difference being that leftist seem to have a pervers liking for taxes, death (when they can tax that) and behaviors that lead to VD." Liberals also have a perverse liking of Fox News, since they comprise 30% of its viewership. It's such a trainwreck of sensationalism, naked GOP propaganda, and unstable personalities that they just can't look away. “The difference being that leftist seem to have a pervers liking for taxes, death (when they can tax that) and behaviors that lead to VD.”

Liberals also have a perverse liking of Fox News, since they comprise 30% of its viewership. It’s such a trainwreck of sensationalism, naked GOP propaganda, and unstable personalities that they just can’t look away.

]]> By: Michael Kennedy http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/10056.html/comment-page-1#comment-329089 Michael Kennedy Sat, 07 Nov 2009 00:20:39 +0000 http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=10056#comment-329089 I wonder how much the change to all digital broadcast TV has affected the networks' audience ? I should think that would push more to cable and satellite. I wonder how much the change to all digital broadcast TV has affected the networks’ audience ? I should think that would push more to cable and satellite.

]]> By: Shannon Love http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/10056.html/comment-page-1#comment-329086 Shannon Love Fri, 06 Nov 2009 23:01:10 +0000 http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=10056#comment-329086 Irving Gold, <i>They are here to stay? so, too, taxes, death and VD.</i> The difference being that leftist seem to have a pervers liking for taxes, death (when they can tax that) and behaviors that lead to VD. Irving Gold,

They are here to stay? so, too, taxes, death and VD.

The difference being that leftist seem to have a pervers liking for taxes, death (when they can tax that) and behaviors that lead to VD.

]]> By: Zhombre http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/10056.html/comment-page-1#comment-329084 Zhombre Fri, 06 Nov 2009 22:58:35 +0000 http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=10056#comment-329084 Fox News will be around long after our Teenage Mutant Ninja Potus has been sent back to Chi in 2012. Fox News will be around long after our Teenage Mutant Ninja Potus has been sent back to Chi in 2012.

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