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	<title>Comments on: I Wish I Was A Wedemeyer Weiner</title>
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	<description>Some Chicago Boyz know each other from student days at the University of Chicago. Others are Chicago boys in spirit. The blog name is also intended as a good-humored gesture of admiration for distinguished Chicago boys including those pictured above.</description>
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		<title>By: MisterBixby</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/11361.html/comment-page-1#comment-331702</link>
		<dc:creator>MisterBixby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 16:25:03 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>This is a wonderful post. Thank you to pointing me toward a true American hero whose existence was completely unknown to me. And, like so much of World War II, is truly fascinating.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a wonderful post. Thank you to pointing me toward a true American hero whose existence was completely unknown to me. And, like so much of World War II, is truly fascinating.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/11361.html/comment-page-1#comment-331700</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 15:37:19 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>This is a wonderful post. Thank you to pointing me toward a true American hero whose existence was completely unknown to me. And, like so much of World War II, is truly fascinating.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a wonderful post. Thank you to pointing me toward a true American hero whose existence was completely unknown to me. And, like so much of World War II, is truly fascinating.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Kennedy</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/11361.html/comment-page-1#comment-331440</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Kennedy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jan 2010 02:42:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=11361#comment-331440</guid>
		<description>I think we are very fortunate that invasion of the home islands was never necessary. I read &quot;Downfall&quot; a few years ago and the problems it described were daunting. Another problem that was not much discussed in any of the histories I&#039;ve seen was the great typhoon of October 1945, which was when the invasion would have taken place. I suspect that, if the atomic bombs had not worked, we would have followed the &quot;ripe fruit&quot; scenario with submarine warfare. The results for Japan would have been appalling.

The story of Typhoon Louise is &lt;a href=&quot;http://home.att.net/~sallyann4/invasion4.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; here&lt;/a&gt;.

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/giangrec.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; More here&lt;/a&gt;. There was a second typhoon, as well.

&lt;i&gt;If there had been no atom bombs and Tokyo had attempted to hold out for an extended time- a possibility that even bombing and blockade advocates granted- the Japanese would have immediately appreciated the impact of the storm in the waters around Okinawa.   Moreover, they would know exactly what it meant for the follow-up invasion of Honshu, which they had predicted as accurately as the invasion of Kyushu.  Even with the storm delay and friction of combat on Kyushu, the Coronet schedule would have led US engineers to perform virtual miracles to make up for lost time and implement Y-Day as early in April as possible.  Unfortunately the Divine Winds packed a one-two punch.

On 4 April 1946, another typhoon raged in the Pacific, this one striking the northernmost Philippine island of Luzon on the following day where it inflicted only moderate damage before moving toward Taiwan.  Coming almost a year after the war, it was of no particular concern.  The Los Angeles Times gave it about a paragraph on the bottom of page 2.  But if Japan had held out, this storm would have had profound effects on the world we live in today.  It would have been the closest watched weather cell in history.  Would the storm move to the west after hitting Luzon, the Army&#039;s main staging area for Coronet, or would it take the normal spiraling turn to the north, and then northeast as the October typhoon?  Would slow, shallow-draft landing craft be caught at sea or in the Philippines where loading operations would be put on hold?  If they were already on their way to Japan, would they be able to reach Kyushu&#039;s sheltered bay?  And what about the breakwater caissons for the massive artificial harbor to be assembled near Tokyo?  The construction of the harbor&#039;s pre-fabricated components carried a priority second only to the atom bomb, and this precious towed cargo could not be allowed to fall victim to the storm and be scattered across the sea.   &lt;/i&gt;

The result might have been an armistice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think we are very fortunate that invasion of the home islands was never necessary. I read &#8220;Downfall&#8221; a few years ago and the problems it described were daunting. Another problem that was not much discussed in any of the histories I&#8217;ve seen was the great typhoon of October 1945, which was when the invasion would have taken place. I suspect that, if the atomic bombs had not worked, we would have followed the &#8220;ripe fruit&#8221; scenario with submarine warfare. The results for Japan would have been appalling.</p>
<p>The story of Typhoon Louise is <a href="http://home.att.net/~sallyann4/invasion4.html" rel="nofollow"> here</a>.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/giangrec.htm" rel="nofollow"> More here</a>. There was a second typhoon, as well.</p>
<p><i>If there had been no atom bombs and Tokyo had attempted to hold out for an extended time- a possibility that even bombing and blockade advocates granted- the Japanese would have immediately appreciated the impact of the storm in the waters around Okinawa.   Moreover, they would know exactly what it meant for the follow-up invasion of Honshu, which they had predicted as accurately as the invasion of Kyushu.  Even with the storm delay and friction of combat on Kyushu, the Coronet schedule would have led US engineers to perform virtual miracles to make up for lost time and implement Y-Day as early in April as possible.  Unfortunately the Divine Winds packed a one-two punch.</p>
<p>On 4 April 1946, another typhoon raged in the Pacific, this one striking the northernmost Philippine island of Luzon on the following day where it inflicted only moderate damage before moving toward Taiwan.  Coming almost a year after the war, it was of no particular concern.  The Los Angeles Times gave it about a paragraph on the bottom of page 2.  But if Japan had held out, this storm would have had profound effects on the world we live in today.  It would have been the closest watched weather cell in history.  Would the storm move to the west after hitting Luzon, the Army&#8217;s main staging area for Coronet, or would it take the normal spiraling turn to the north, and then northeast as the October typhoon?  Would slow, shallow-draft landing craft be caught at sea or in the Philippines where loading operations would be put on hold?  If they were already on their way to Japan, would they be able to reach Kyushu&#8217;s sheltered bay?  And what about the breakwater caissons for the massive artificial harbor to be assembled near Tokyo?  The construction of the harbor&#8217;s pre-fabricated components carried a priority second only to the atom bomb, and this precious towed cargo could not be allowed to fall victim to the storm and be scattered across the sea.   </i></p>
<p>The result might have been an armistice.</p>
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		<title>By: J. Scott</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/11361.html/comment-page-1#comment-331423</link>
		<dc:creator>J. Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jan 2010 20:02:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=11361#comment-331423</guid>
		<description>Thanks for this posting...I found a paperback version and started today. There was another Marshall bio that I read (a borrowed copy in 92) that was good, but I cannot remember the title or the author...but it was new if memory serves.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for this posting&#8230;I found a paperback version and started today. There was another Marshall bio that I read (a borrowed copy in 92) that was good, but I cannot remember the title or the author&#8230;but it was new if memory serves.</p>
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		<title>By: Erwin</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/11361.html/comment-page-1#comment-331368</link>
		<dc:creator>Erwin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Jan 2010 06:09:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=11361#comment-331368</guid>
		<description>A most interesting post.

There is a new biography of Marshall coming out this year I believe, by Josiah Bunting III, who also wrote a short biography of U.S. Grant.

Having recently read Andrew Roberts&#039;s fascinating Masters and Commanders, as well as excerpts from Wedemeyer&#039;s own writings and contemporary commentary thereon, I am not so sure about Wedemeyer. Yes, he was brilliant, but he was also prone to talking himself up (and publicly slamming Marshall--his patron--and Roosevelt). 

For the last two years of the war he took no part in grand strategy, yet his &quot;Wedemeyer Reports!&quot; and his public statements post its publication gave the impression that he was in the wheelhouse throughout. The book&#039;s pungent style and relatively early (1958) appearance (and the silence of more senior strategists like Marshall and Alanbrooke-the former never published a memoir and the latter&#039;s diaries did not appear until 2001) gave his views a prominence disproportionate to his role in the war.

In the book, as well as lambasting every national leader and senior officer not named Albert C Wedemeyer, he deftly &quot;corrected&quot; views he himself had held during the war but now thought better of.  Interestingly, he argued that the US should never have entered the war and that there should have been no attempt to invade Japan (or its surrounding islands) or end the war with nuclear weapons--Japan should have been allowed to fall &quot;like a ripe fruit.&quot; 

He had a presciently dour view of communists of all stripes, yet ardently supported Operation Sledgehammer, an invasion of France whose sole objective was to support the Soviet war effort if it appeared on the brink of failure. The operation was called off for lack of support from Churchill and Marshall. Wedemeyer also showed a reflexive antipathy to all things British that I personally find rather distasteful.

Despite his hostility to communism, he maintained that Stalin was the only Allied (or at least non-Nazi) leader with any strategic nous, and that Churchill and Roosevelt were beguiled into supporting him (what he failed to mention was that so was Wedemeyer himself).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A most interesting post.</p>
<p>There is a new biography of Marshall coming out this year I believe, by Josiah Bunting III, who also wrote a short biography of U.S. Grant.</p>
<p>Having recently read Andrew Roberts&#8217;s fascinating Masters and Commanders, as well as excerpts from Wedemeyer&#8217;s own writings and contemporary commentary thereon, I am not so sure about Wedemeyer. Yes, he was brilliant, but he was also prone to talking himself up (and publicly slamming Marshall&#8211;his patron&#8211;and Roosevelt). </p>
<p>For the last two years of the war he took no part in grand strategy, yet his &#8220;Wedemeyer Reports!&#8221; and his public statements post its publication gave the impression that he was in the wheelhouse throughout. The book&#8217;s pungent style and relatively early (1958) appearance (and the silence of more senior strategists like Marshall and Alanbrooke-the former never published a memoir and the latter&#8217;s diaries did not appear until 2001) gave his views a prominence disproportionate to his role in the war.</p>
<p>In the book, as well as lambasting every national leader and senior officer not named Albert C Wedemeyer, he deftly &#8220;corrected&#8221; views he himself had held during the war but now thought better of.  Interestingly, he argued that the US should never have entered the war and that there should have been no attempt to invade Japan (or its surrounding islands) or end the war with nuclear weapons&#8211;Japan should have been allowed to fall &#8220;like a ripe fruit.&#8221; </p>
<p>He had a presciently dour view of communists of all stripes, yet ardently supported Operation Sledgehammer, an invasion of France whose sole objective was to support the Soviet war effort if it appeared on the brink of failure. The operation was called off for lack of support from Churchill and Marshall. Wedemeyer also showed a reflexive antipathy to all things British that I personally find rather distasteful.</p>
<p>Despite his hostility to communism, he maintained that Stalin was the only Allied (or at least non-Nazi) leader with any strategic nous, and that Churchill and Roosevelt were beguiled into supporting him (what he failed to mention was that so was Wedemeyer himself).</p>
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		<title>By: Lexington Green</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/11361.html/comment-page-1#comment-331358</link>
		<dc:creator>Lexington Green</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Jan 2010 19:43:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=11361#comment-331358</guid>
		<description>I have the Pogue volumes, but have only read parts of it.  It is very good, based on the documentary record, as well as a series of interviews with Marshall.  It is the gold standard for Marshall.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have the Pogue volumes, but have only read parts of it.  It is very good, based on the documentary record, as well as a series of interviews with Marshall.  It is the gold standard for Marshall.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Kennedy</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/11361.html/comment-page-1#comment-331350</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Kennedy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Jan 2010 14:35:36 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I found a copy of volume 1 of the Pogue biography on Amazon and ordered it. Thank you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I found a copy of volume 1 of the Pogue biography on Amazon and ordered it. Thank you.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/11361.html/comment-page-1#comment-331349</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Jan 2010 14:24:02 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>VR, I agree about Marshall. He and Norman Borlaug are two of the greatest and most underappreciated men of the 20th century. That would be an interesting top 10 list to assemble. Forrest Pogue is the definitive biography of Marshall in 4 volumes or a 1 volume condensation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>VR, I agree about Marshall. He and Norman Borlaug are two of the greatest and most underappreciated men of the 20th century. That would be an interesting top 10 list to assemble. Forrest Pogue is the definitive biography of Marshall in 4 volumes or a 1 volume condensation.</p>
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		<title>By: veryretired</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/11361.html/comment-page-1#comment-331342</link>
		<dc:creator>veryretired</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Jan 2010 07:02:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=11361#comment-331342</guid>
		<description>MK---Tuchman wrote a very nice bio of Marshall as a follow-up to her book on Gen Joe Stillwell. Both are first rate. I consider Marshall to be a modern Cinncinatus. No other military leader in any age would have stepped aside when his CIC died at the critical moment in an absolute struggle for survival, and upheld his duty to take orders from an obscure midwestern politician like Truman.

The fact that he repeatedly attempted to retire to private life when he was one of the most powerful public figures in the world, in both military and civilian ranks, places him on a level far above the grasping mediocrities we currently see in public life.

I have many times read stories of the unheralded brilliance and dedication of members of the armed forces, just as there are many instances of foolishness and rigidity of thought. The recent saga of Gen Patreaus, and his disgraceful mistreatment by certain elements of our polity, comes to mind.

The enormity of WW2 is such a cliche, and the youth of our society so poorly educated as to the circumstances and issues involved, that many stories such as this are simply lost in the clamor of triviality, celebrity worship, and tabloid journalism, all vying for what little attention span is left in the average person.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MK&#8212;Tuchman wrote a very nice bio of Marshall as a follow-up to her book on Gen Joe Stillwell. Both are first rate. I consider Marshall to be a modern Cinncinatus. No other military leader in any age would have stepped aside when his CIC died at the critical moment in an absolute struggle for survival, and upheld his duty to take orders from an obscure midwestern politician like Truman.</p>
<p>The fact that he repeatedly attempted to retire to private life when he was one of the most powerful public figures in the world, in both military and civilian ranks, places him on a level far above the grasping mediocrities we currently see in public life.</p>
<p>I have many times read stories of the unheralded brilliance and dedication of members of the armed forces, just as there are many instances of foolishness and rigidity of thought. The recent saga of Gen Patreaus, and his disgraceful mistreatment by certain elements of our polity, comes to mind.</p>
<p>The enormity of WW2 is such a cliche, and the youth of our society so poorly educated as to the circumstances and issues involved, that many stories such as this are simply lost in the clamor of triviality, celebrity worship, and tabloid journalism, all vying for what little attention span is left in the average person.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Kennedy</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/11361.html/comment-page-1#comment-331329</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Kennedy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Jan 2010 01:24:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=11361#comment-331329</guid>
		<description>Roosevelt and Churchill are both such interesting characters that, having read a dozen biographies of each, I could keep finding new ones to read. Recently, I got about half way through a &quot;progressive&quot; biography, titled &quot;A Traitor to His Class,&quot; that was excellent about his life up to the presidency but then descended into leftist economic theorizing enough to get me bogged down. One day I will start it up again but it is very entertaining to that point. It has quite a bit about his post-polio life including a fair amount about a probable affair with Missy LeHand.

One of the pleasures of Drury&#039;s &quot;Advise and Consent&quot; was the picture of Roosevelt near his end.

Maurer&#039;s &quot;Once an Eagle&quot; has a nice picture of Marshall and the pre-war army. I need to read a biography of Marshall.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Roosevelt and Churchill are both such interesting characters that, having read a dozen biographies of each, I could keep finding new ones to read. Recently, I got about half way through a &#8220;progressive&#8221; biography, titled &#8220;A Traitor to His Class,&#8221; that was excellent about his life up to the presidency but then descended into leftist economic theorizing enough to get me bogged down. One day I will start it up again but it is very entertaining to that point. It has quite a bit about his post-polio life including a fair amount about a probable affair with Missy LeHand.</p>
<p>One of the pleasures of Drury&#8217;s &#8220;Advise and Consent&#8221; was the picture of Roosevelt near his end.</p>
<p>Maurer&#8217;s &#8220;Once an Eagle&#8221; has a nice picture of Marshall and the pre-war army. I need to read a biography of Marshall.</p>
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		<title>By: Sgt. Mom</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/11361.html/comment-page-1#comment-331327</link>
		<dc:creator>Sgt. Mom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Jan 2010 00:38:13 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Gosh - I think that I read about this first in American Heritage, some years ago: can&#039;t recall exact issue and date, or author, but such are the eccentricities of my untidy filing-cabinet of a mind -  but I am sure of the general facts - that FDR engineered a leak purposefully to goad Hitler into acting rashly and declaring war on us, because of the deliberate leak. You have to stand back in admiration of the sheer twistiness of the mind, and the loyalty and trust of all those who kept their mouths shut for decades.
And you know, all those conspiracy theorists who are absolutely sure that FDR knew about Pearl Harbor ... have never paid nearly as much attention to this particular conspiracy. Food for thought, actually. Why the real conspiracy goes barely noticed save by history wonks - and the supposed conspiracy is common currency.
(Quick google-search - the American Heritage article was published in 1987. And it seems that General Wedemeyer could justifiably say (like Elizabeth I at a certain point in life) &quot;Much suspected of me, nothing proved could be...&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gosh &#8211; I think that I read about this first in American Heritage, some years ago: can&#8217;t recall exact issue and date, or author, but such are the eccentricities of my untidy filing-cabinet of a mind &#8211;  but I am sure of the general facts &#8211; that FDR engineered a leak purposefully to goad Hitler into acting rashly and declaring war on us, because of the deliberate leak. You have to stand back in admiration of the sheer twistiness of the mind, and the loyalty and trust of all those who kept their mouths shut for decades.<br />
And you know, all those conspiracy theorists who are absolutely sure that FDR knew about Pearl Harbor &#8230; have never paid nearly as much attention to this particular conspiracy. Food for thought, actually. Why the real conspiracy goes barely noticed save by history wonks &#8211; and the supposed conspiracy is common currency.<br />
(Quick google-search &#8211; the American Heritage article was published in 1987. And it seems that General Wedemeyer could justifiably say (like Elizabeth I at a certain point in life) &#8220;Much suspected of me, nothing proved could be&#8230;&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Kennedy</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/11361.html/comment-page-1#comment-331323</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Kennedy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Jan 2010 00:05:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=11361#comment-331323</guid>
		<description>Nice post. I had been under the impression that Wedemeyer was the source of the leak but with the approval of Roosevelt. The Tribune continued its pattern of leaks including the Midway break in the Japanese code and numerous small items like the B 17 gunbreaks for the tail and wing surfaces. 

Colonel McCormack was quite a character. I even remember Westbrook Pegler&#039;s Christmas card in which he had a photo of Eleanor Roosevelt inserted into his Christmas photo. It was an early example of what Photoshop does now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice post. I had been under the impression that Wedemeyer was the source of the leak but with the approval of Roosevelt. The Tribune continued its pattern of leaks including the Midway break in the Japanese code and numerous small items like the B 17 gunbreaks for the tail and wing surfaces. </p>
<p>Colonel McCormack was quite a character. I even remember Westbrook Pegler&#8217;s Christmas card in which he had a photo of Eleanor Roosevelt inserted into his Christmas photo. It was an early example of what Photoshop does now.</p>
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		<title>By: J. Scott</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/11361.html/comment-page-1#comment-331317</link>
		<dc:creator>J. Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Jan 2010 20:01:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=11361#comment-331317</guid>
		<description>&quot;The assignment was given to then-Major (later General) Albert Wedemeyer, who had an office, a small staff, and about ninety days to complete the job.&quot;

&quot;A small staff...&quot; amazing, simply amazing (I ordered a used PB of this after skimming this post, so thanks.). I&#039;m almost finished with Jim Storr&#039;s The Human Face of War---Storr holds bureaucracies in low regard, and stresses the need for &quot;workable&quot; armies w/small staffs. I was amazed to read that the typical Western Divisional Commander is supported by no less than 600 people---that number is referenced to a document written in 98--so my guess the number is higher today. 

One cultural handicap is that &quot;thinking&quot; has been delegated to staff---not just in the military, but in the political arena as well.

Thanks for a illustrative post..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The assignment was given to then-Major (later General) Albert Wedemeyer, who had an office, a small staff, and about ninety days to complete the job.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;A small staff&#8230;&#8221; amazing, simply amazing (I ordered a used PB of this after skimming this post, so thanks.). I&#8217;m almost finished with Jim Storr&#8217;s The Human Face of War&#8212;Storr holds bureaucracies in low regard, and stresses the need for &#8220;workable&#8221; armies w/small staffs. I was amazed to read that the typical Western Divisional Commander is supported by no less than 600 people&#8212;that number is referenced to a document written in 98&#8211;so my guess the number is higher today. </p>
<p>One cultural handicap is that &#8220;thinking&#8221; has been delegated to staff&#8212;not just in the military, but in the political arena as well.</p>
<p>Thanks for a illustrative post..</p>
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