<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Politicians vs. Information</title>
	<atom:link href="http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/1424.html/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/1424.html</link>
	<description>Some Chicago Boyz know each other from student days at the University of Chicago. Others are Chicago boys in spirit. The blog name is also intended as a good-humored gesture of admiration for distinguished Chicago boys including those pictured above.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 23 May 2012 04:52:26 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.4</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Sylvain Galineau</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/1424.html/comment-page-1#comment-207</link>
		<dc:creator>Sylvain Galineau</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Aug 2003 08:45:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/001424.php#comment-207</guid>
		<description>Arafat has a couple of billions ? Interesting. Any source for that tidbit ?
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Arafat has a couple of billions ? Interesting. Any source for that tidbit ?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Omnibus Bill</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/1424.html/comment-page-1#comment-206</link>
		<dc:creator>Omnibus Bill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Aug 2003 15:16:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/001424.php#comment-206</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not saying it&#039;s a perfect predictive device, or a perfect detection device.  I&#039;m just saying that the market in the aggregate often has better information on a specific issue than the dozen or 20 CIA analysts assigned to think about it.  

And not all short selling is innocent.  Yassir Arafat has a couple billion in assets - I&#039;m guessing that money isn&#039;t stashed under his bed.  Bin Laden is supposedly worth between $50 million and $150 million - I&#039;m guessing it isn&#039;t stashed in the rock he uses for a pillow.  International terrorism is big business, and what better way to launder money and to help fund it than to keep a bunch of cash &quot;offshore&quot; from Iran or Saudi, in a stock market. 

The idea of markets as predictors is at least worth exploring.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not saying it&#8217;s a perfect predictive device, or a perfect detection device.  I&#8217;m just saying that the market in the aggregate often has better information on a specific issue than the dozen or 20 CIA analysts assigned to think about it.  </p>
<p>And not all short selling is innocent.  Yassir Arafat has a couple billion in assets &#8211; I&#8217;m guessing that money isn&#8217;t stashed under his bed.  Bin Laden is supposedly worth between $50 million and $150 million &#8211; I&#8217;m guessing it isn&#8217;t stashed in the rock he uses for a pillow.  International terrorism is big business, and what better way to launder money and to help fund it than to keep a bunch of cash &#8220;offshore&#8221; from Iran or Saudi, in a stock market. </p>
<p>The idea of markets as predictors is at least worth exploring.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Sylvain Galineau</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/1424.html/comment-page-1#comment-205</link>
		<dc:creator>Sylvain Galineau</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jul 2003 12:24:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/001424.php#comment-205</guid>
		<description>Bill, I am one of the people who made a windfall off 9/11. There were just so many short opportunities in the weeks leading to it, I was net short. Including Marriott and other travel related shares. This is a factor that is often overlooked; would the market have cratered like it did for a week had it already been bottoming ? Nope. Lots of people were short and make a &quot;killing&quot;. Including big institutional players who had no means of knowing anymore than you and I.

I never imagined I&#039;d feel bad about making money. And I never bothered to figure out if those bad feelings were justified or rational. (They probably weren&#039;t). I gave it all to the FDNY and NYPD charity funds and moved on. Sounds dumb today in many ways (why should I feel bad, and why would a couple of checks fix it...) but those were weird emotional times, as you know.

All things being equal, the simpler explanation is the most likely in most cases. Several market sectors were due for a pullback and many market participants had set themselves up accordingly. When it finally happened, hugely amplified and accelerated by the events, large net short positions became immediately suspicious, if not instantly assumed guilty until proven innocent depending on the nature or location of the firm.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bill, I am one of the people who made a windfall off 9/11. There were just so many short opportunities in the weeks leading to it, I was net short. Including Marriott and other travel related shares. This is a factor that is often overlooked; would the market have cratered like it did for a week had it already been bottoming ? Nope. Lots of people were short and make a &#8220;killing&#8221;. Including big institutional players who had no means of knowing anymore than you and I.</p>
<p>I never imagined I&#8217;d feel bad about making money. And I never bothered to figure out if those bad feelings were justified or rational. (They probably weren&#8217;t). I gave it all to the FDNY and NYPD charity funds and moved on. Sounds dumb today in many ways (why should I feel bad, and why would a couple of checks fix it&#8230;) but those were weird emotional times, as you know.</p>
<p>All things being equal, the simpler explanation is the most likely in most cases. Several market sectors were due for a pullback and many market participants had set themselves up accordingly. When it finally happened, hugely amplified and accelerated by the events, large net short positions became immediately suspicious, if not instantly assumed guilty until proven innocent depending on the nature or location of the firm.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Lex</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/1424.html/comment-page-1#comment-204</link>
		<dc:creator>Lex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2003 20:27:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/001424.php#comment-204</guid>
		<description>OK you guys are right.  I surrender.  

I was not so much making an argument as putting a smiley face sticker on my disappointment that this very interesting and potentially valuable project was annihilated so quickly and thoughtlessly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK you guys are right.  I surrender.  </p>
<p>I was not so much making an argument as putting a smiley face sticker on my disappointment that this very interesting and potentially valuable project was annihilated so quickly and thoughtlessly.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Omnibus Bill</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/1424.html/comment-page-1#comment-203</link>
		<dc:creator>Omnibus Bill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2003 17:39:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/001424.php#comment-203</guid>
		<description>Actually, assessing risk and doing cost-benefits analysis are two things the government ought to be involved in.  Assuming that government&#039;s only valid purpose is to defend the country from foreign attack, wouldn&#039;t risk assessment be part of the task?  I mean, Mali probably poses less of a threat to the U.S. than China; defense policy should reflect that. 

As for the terrorists trying to make a killing, being too dumb or too smart... 

First of all, the market depends on aggregation of prices.  A futures market based on middle eastern events, with 10,000 investors minimum, would encompass a lot of folks with information advantages.  Brokerages employing ex-Saudi intel and security members as consultants, former Israeli Mossad operatives or Likud members as analysts, and so forth.  Maybe it wouldn&#039;t be inside information, but these brokerages would act out of very enlightened self interest.  Not everybody would move in the right direction -- but in the aggregate, the market would get the price right a lot of the time.

Aggregated futures contracts prices, predicated on the emergence of a Palestinian state, the breakup of OPEC, whatever, could be useful predictors of major action. 

In the alternative, if terrorists did invest in this futures market (to &quot;make a killing&quot;) the money trail would quickly out them.  Don&#039;t forget, most people go along with the market to get along, and rely on slow accretion of value to make a profit.  Those making a killing almost invariably act counterintuitively - ask those who sold when MCI was at $100, and expected to go to $200 about counterintuition.  As usual, the SEC (or other government elements) would be on the case of anyone who made a big counterintuitive move just prior to a major market shakeup.  That&#039;s how a lot of insider trading investigations get started... 

Finally, state sponsored terror is big business.  Anybody remember the suspicion about the big European investment houses divesting a lot of American reinsurance company stock just prior to 9/11?  Ever wonder why we haven&#039;t heard back that it was all innocent?  Somebody knew, or got wind of the attacks by watching Yassir Arafat&#039;s or the Bin Laden family&#039;s portfolio. 

Either that, or the market itself predicted the attack.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, assessing risk and doing cost-benefits analysis are two things the government ought to be involved in.  Assuming that government&#8217;s only valid purpose is to defend the country from foreign attack, wouldn&#8217;t risk assessment be part of the task?  I mean, Mali probably poses less of a threat to the U.S. than China; defense policy should reflect that. </p>
<p>As for the terrorists trying to make a killing, being too dumb or too smart&#8230; </p>
<p>First of all, the market depends on aggregation of prices.  A futures market based on middle eastern events, with 10,000 investors minimum, would encompass a lot of folks with information advantages.  Brokerages employing ex-Saudi intel and security members as consultants, former Israeli Mossad operatives or Likud members as analysts, and so forth.  Maybe it wouldn&#8217;t be inside information, but these brokerages would act out of very enlightened self interest.  Not everybody would move in the right direction &#8212; but in the aggregate, the market would get the price right a lot of the time.</p>
<p>Aggregated futures contracts prices, predicated on the emergence of a Palestinian state, the breakup of OPEC, whatever, could be useful predictors of major action. </p>
<p>In the alternative, if terrorists did invest in this futures market (to &#8220;make a killing&#8221;) the money trail would quickly out them.  Don&#8217;t forget, most people go along with the market to get along, and rely on slow accretion of value to make a profit.  Those making a killing almost invariably act counterintuitively &#8211; ask those who sold when MCI was at $100, and expected to go to $200 about counterintuition.  As usual, the SEC (or other government elements) would be on the case of anyone who made a big counterintuitive move just prior to a major market shakeup.  That&#8217;s how a lot of insider trading investigations get started&#8230; </p>
<p>Finally, state sponsored terror is big business.  Anybody remember the suspicion about the big European investment houses divesting a lot of American reinsurance company stock just prior to 9/11?  Ever wonder why we haven&#8217;t heard back that it was all innocent?  Somebody knew, or got wind of the attacks by watching Yassir Arafat&#8217;s or the Bin Laden family&#8217;s portfolio. </p>
<p>Either that, or the market itself predicted the attack.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: scarhill</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/1424.html/comment-page-1#comment-202</link>
		<dc:creator>scarhill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2003 15:44:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/001424.php#comment-202</guid>
		<description>Lex,

A couple of points:

First, DARPA is a research outfit. This seems like a legitimate research topic for them even if you believe that this sort of thing is better implemented in the private sector.

Second, there IS a reason why this can&#039;t (currently) be implemented in the private sector. It&#039;s illegal everywhere in the US, and probably in  much of the rest of the world. See Robin Hanson&#039;s &lt;a href=&#039;http://hanson.gmu.edu/ideafutures.html&#039; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Idea Futures page&lt;/a&gt; for more about the concept (including the legal issues) and lots of good links.

Jim</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lex,</p>
<p>A couple of points:</p>
<p>First, DARPA is a research outfit. This seems like a legitimate research topic for them even if you believe that this sort of thing is better implemented in the private sector.</p>
<p>Second, there IS a reason why this can&#8217;t (currently) be implemented in the private sector. It&#8217;s illegal everywhere in the US, and probably in  much of the rest of the world. See Robin Hanson&#8217;s <a href='http://hanson.gmu.edu/ideafutures.html' rel="nofollow">Idea Futures page</a> for more about the concept (including the legal issues) and lots of good links.</p>
<p>Jim</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Lex</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/1424.html/comment-page-1#comment-201</link>
		<dc:creator>Lex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2003 03:44:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/001424.php#comment-201</guid>
		<description>Yeah, well, this shows you why the Gov&#039;t should stay out of things like assessing and assigning risk.  This should be done privately.  There is no reason why it could not be.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, well, this shows you why the Gov&#8217;t should stay out of things like assessing and assigning risk.  This should be done privately.  There is no reason why it could not be.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jonathan</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/1424.html/comment-page-1#comment-200</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2003 02:07:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/001424.php#comment-200</guid>
		<description>They certainly caved quickly. It appears that they, being reasonable people, were blindsided by the Democrats&#039; demagoguery. What a shame that they didn&#039;t attempt a principled defense.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They certainly caved quickly. It appears that they, being reasonable people, were blindsided by the Democrats&#8217; demagoguery. What a shame that they didn&#8217;t attempt a principled defense.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Lex</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/1424.html/comment-page-1#comment-199</link>
		<dc:creator>Lex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jul 2003 21:41:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/001424.php#comment-199</guid>
		<description>Looks like the Pentagon bailed out on the idea:

http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30200-1098517,00.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Looks like the Pentagon bailed out on the idea:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30200-1098517,00.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30200-1098517,00.html</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Alex</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/1424.html/comment-page-1#comment-198</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jul 2003 19:02:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/001424.php#comment-198</guid>
		<description>Gives a new meaning to the legend of the &quot;Hot Tub Sheik&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gives a new meaning to the legend of the &#8220;Hot Tub Sheik&#8221;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Alex</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/1424.html/comment-page-1#comment-197</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jul 2003 19:00:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/001424.php#comment-197</guid>
		<description>LB you  are 100% correct -- which is why we should shut them all down and round up those Al Qaeda operatives at Chubb and Swiss Re.

Boy, when dimbulb Congressfolk impugn DARPA&#039;s smarts, something aint right...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LB you  are 100% correct &#8212; which is why we should shut them all down and round up those Al Qaeda operatives at Chubb and Swiss Re.</p>
<p>Boy, when dimbulb Congressfolk impugn DARPA&#8217;s smarts, something aint right&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: LB</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/1424.html/comment-page-1#comment-196</link>
		<dc:creator>LB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jul 2003 18:38:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/001424.php#comment-196</guid>
		<description>Don&#039;t we have this - or at least a disaster futures market - in the re-insurance trade?  Or do we have the moral hazard problem of governments guaranteeing the damage?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#8217;t we have this &#8211; or at least a disaster futures market &#8211; in the re-insurance trade?  Or do we have the moral hazard problem of governments guaranteeing the damage?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Charles</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/1424.html/comment-page-1#comment-195</link>
		<dc:creator>Charles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jul 2003 17:43:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/001424.php#comment-195</guid>
		<description>There are so many problems with this, at least some of which I outline &lt;a HREF=&quot;http://www.donefer.com/blog/2003_07_27_donefer_archive.html#105949377521929858&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are so many problems with this, at least some of which I outline <a HREF="http://www.donefer.com/blog/2003_07_27_donefer_archive.html#105949377521929858" rel="nofollow">here</a>.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Andy B</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/1424.html/comment-page-1#comment-194</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jul 2003 17:25:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/001424.php#comment-194</guid>
		<description>Just because the supply cannot be monopolized does not mean that there is not a compelling premium selling opportunity, ask Fossett about that. I am not arguing against this idea, I think it could work on several intelligence levels, which helps explain why Wyden, Dorgan, and Daschle do not get it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just because the supply cannot be monopolized does not mean that there is not a compelling premium selling opportunity, ask Fossett about that. I am not arguing against this idea, I think it could work on several intelligence levels, which helps explain why Wyden, Dorgan, and Daschle do not get it.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jonathan</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/1424.html/comment-page-1#comment-193</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jul 2003 16:39:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/001424.php#comment-193</guid>
		<description>Andy, the point is that terrorists couldn&#039;t manipulate the market unless they could monopolize the supply of terrorism, which seems unlikely.

Fingerowner, that&#039;s a good question.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andy, the point is that terrorists couldn&#8217;t manipulate the market unless they could monopolize the supply of terrorism, which seems unlikely.</p>
<p>Fingerowner, that&#8217;s a good question.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Andy B</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/1424.html/comment-page-1#comment-192</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jul 2003 16:38:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/001424.php#comment-192</guid>
		<description>It has been already done, in a sense. Tradesports currently lists some world events/politics contracts. If the demand were there, I think they would list it. The biggest problem I see with this idea is defining the contract terms. What qualifies as a terrorist event? How widespread? Or are the contracts on very specific, single acts?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It has been already done, in a sense. Tradesports currently lists some world events/politics contracts. If the demand were there, I think they would list it. The biggest problem I see with this idea is defining the contract terms. What qualifies as a terrorist event? How widespread? Or are the contracts on very specific, single acts?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: fingerowner</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/1424.html/comment-page-1#comment-191</link>
		<dc:creator>fingerowner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jul 2003 15:57:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/001424.php#comment-191</guid>
		<description>Now that the project has been killed at the federal level, isn&#039;t this the kind of project that lends itself to creation by a university or an entrepeneur ?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Now that the project has been killed at the federal level, isn&#8217;t this the kind of project that lends itself to creation by a university or an entrepeneur ?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Andy B</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/1424.html/comment-page-1#comment-190</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jul 2003 15:40:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/001424.php#comment-190</guid>
		<description>Since when are you concerned with the safety of terrorists Jonathan?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Since when are you concerned with the safety of terrorists Jonathan?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jonathan</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/1424.html/comment-page-1#comment-189</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jul 2003 14:15:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/001424.php#comment-189</guid>
		<description>Terrorists couldn&#039;t safely sell premium because they couldn&#039;t know if other terrorists were planning attacks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Terrorists couldn&#8217;t safely sell premium because they couldn&#8217;t know if other terrorists were planning attacks.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Andy B.</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/1424.html/comment-page-1#comment-188</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy B.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jul 2003 14:09:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/001424.php#comment-188</guid>
		<description>This would give terrorists a way to be huge premium sellers in the market, abstain from any new terrorist attacks, and rake it in as vol collapses. That assuming too much intelligence on their part, I know.

Congressional risk market vol would be a little high, don&#039;t you think?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This would give terrorists a way to be huge premium sellers in the market, abstain from any new terrorist attacks, and rake it in as vol collapses. That assuming too much intelligence on their part, I know.</p>
<p>Congressional risk market vol would be a little high, don&#8217;t you think?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

