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	<title>Comments on: Further Thoughts on Barnett&#8217;s Proposed SysAdmin Force and State-Building</title>
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	<description>Some Chicago Boyz know each other from student days at the University of Chicago. Others are Chicago boys in spirit. The blog name is also intended as a good-humored gesture of admiration for distinguished Chicago boys including those pictured above.</description>
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		<title>By: Sylvain Galineau</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/2249.html/comment-page-1#comment-5033</link>
		<dc:creator>Sylvain Galineau</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Aug 2004 15:25:57 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>And why is spreading globablization a bad thing ? As opposed to what ? 
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And why is spreading globablization a bad thing ? As opposed to what ?</p>
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		<title>By: Lex</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/2249.html/comment-page-1#comment-5032</link>
		<dc:creator>Lex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Aug 2004 14:47:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/002249.php#comment-5032</guid>
		<description>Lynne, a lot of people agree with you.  But we have been going abroad in search of monsters to slay since at least 1898, when we annexed the Phillipines.  Moreover, our enemies are basing themselves in places like Afghanistan.  Failed states on the other side of the world present a security threat to the United State. If we are going to keep doing this type of job, and we are, then we should become competent at it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lynne, a lot of people agree with you.  But we have been going abroad in search of monsters to slay since at least 1898, when we annexed the Phillipines.  Moreover, our enemies are basing themselves in places like Afghanistan.  Failed states on the other side of the world present a security threat to the United State. If we are going to keep doing this type of job, and we are, then we should become competent at it.</p>
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		<title>By: Lynne</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/2249.html/comment-page-1#comment-5031</link>
		<dc:creator>Lynne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Aug 2004 03:08:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/002249.php#comment-5031</guid>
		<description>Our military is too large.  It should be used to protect that continental US only.  Otherwise, we go abroad looking for monsters to slay.  I am unwilling to sacrifice my children to the miltary to spread globalization.  I don;t want to be globocop.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Our military is too large.  It should be used to protect that continental US only.  Otherwise, we go abroad looking for monsters to slay.  I am unwilling to sacrifice my children to the miltary to spread globalization.  I don;t want to be globocop.</p>
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		<title>By: TM Lutas</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/2249.html/comment-page-1#comment-5030</link>
		<dc:creator>TM Lutas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Aug 2004 15:52:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/002249.php#comment-5030</guid>
		<description>Since I&#039;m on Barnett&#039;s blogroll, I thought I might comment here before I broke out my own thread. 

Some things to keep in mind:
1. The SysAdmin force is a failure mode. The preferable solution is peaceful democratic reform and gradual entry into the Core at whatever pace the society can tolerate the massive changes this entails. Since the SysAdmin force&#039;s entry is a mark of failure, fixing the problems means that they will leave. Permanent garrisoning is neither desirable nor feasible. 

2. A great deal of what the SysAdmin force does will be sociological and psychological. Some of it may even be remote capable so honey may not &lt;i&gt;have&lt;/i&gt; to go to Somalia as hubby&#039;s presence there may be a telepresence. 

3. Eventually, the job of the SysAdmin force will largely be done. When the depths of Africa become part of the Core, there will likely be no Gap states left. Leviathan will continue to drill and practice for high intensity war but SysAdmin can&#039;t do its job in the Core. It ends up competing with the private sector.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Since I&#8217;m on Barnett&#8217;s blogroll, I thought I might comment here before I broke out my own thread. </p>
<p>Some things to keep in mind:<br />
1. The SysAdmin force is a failure mode. The preferable solution is peaceful democratic reform and gradual entry into the Core at whatever pace the society can tolerate the massive changes this entails. Since the SysAdmin force&#8217;s entry is a mark of failure, fixing the problems means that they will leave. Permanent garrisoning is neither desirable nor feasible. </p>
<p>2. A great deal of what the SysAdmin force does will be sociological and psychological. Some of it may even be remote capable so honey may not <i>have</i> to go to Somalia as hubby&#8217;s presence there may be a telepresence. </p>
<p>3. Eventually, the job of the SysAdmin force will largely be done. When the depths of Africa become part of the Core, there will likely be no Gap states left. Leviathan will continue to drill and practice for high intensity war but SysAdmin can&#8217;t do its job in the Core. It ends up competing with the private sector.</p>
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		<title>By: Lex</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/2249.html/comment-page-1#comment-5029</link>
		<dc:creator>Lex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Aug 2004 14:23:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/002249.php#comment-5029</guid>
		<description>&quot;Army is going to have to operate two very different types of force&quot;  That is exactly what Barnett is proposing, though he may want to make the SysAdmin a separate Department.  As he says repeatedly in his book, we used to have a Department of War and A Navy Department, the latter of which amounted to a &quot;department of everything else&quot;.  That is the division he is talking about restoring.  Working out the institutional details will be, um, interesting, to say the least.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Army is going to have to operate two very different types of force&#8221;  That is exactly what Barnett is proposing, though he may want to make the SysAdmin a separate Department.  As he says repeatedly in his book, we used to have a Department of War and A Navy Department, the latter of which amounted to a &#8220;department of everything else&#8221;.  That is the division he is talking about restoring.  Working out the institutional details will be, um, interesting, to say the least.</p>
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		<title>By: John F</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/2249.html/comment-page-1#comment-5028</link>
		<dc:creator>John F</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Aug 2004 13:58:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/002249.php#comment-5028</guid>
		<description>Would a &quot;SysAdmin&quot; force for policing, reconstuction, administration etc. be separate from the military or a branch within it?

Because while these functions are likely to be necessary, there is still going to be a need for specialised fighting/security forces too. 
 
Such units will need the ability to fight hard, but also to specialise in these sorts of &quot;not major war&quot; operations.

In either case, the Army is going to have to operate two very different types of force, and to overcome a lot of internal pressures to focus primarily on the major wars function: for one institution to combine Leviathan and (at least part of) SysAdmin.
Or both Wehrmacht and British Imperial Army. 

This is going to take a lot of bludgeoning of generals, I would guess.
(Interestingly, one force that has tried to combine both roles, on a much smaller scale, is the post-war British Army.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Would a &#8220;SysAdmin&#8221; force for policing, reconstuction, administration etc. be separate from the military or a branch within it?</p>
<p>Because while these functions are likely to be necessary, there is still going to be a need for specialised fighting/security forces too. </p>
<p>Such units will need the ability to fight hard, but also to specialise in these sorts of &#8220;not major war&#8221; operations.</p>
<p>In either case, the Army is going to have to operate two very different types of force, and to overcome a lot of internal pressures to focus primarily on the major wars function: for one institution to combine Leviathan and (at least part of) SysAdmin.<br />
Or both Wehrmacht and British Imperial Army. </p>
<p>This is going to take a lot of bludgeoning of generals, I would guess.<br />
(Interestingly, one force that has tried to combine both roles, on a much smaller scale, is the post-war British Army.)</p>
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		<title>By: Lex</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/2249.html/comment-page-1#comment-5027</link>
		<dc:creator>Lex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Aug 2004 03:59:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/002249.php#comment-5027</guid>
		<description>&quot;Once we had this Sysadmin department he wants how could we ever disengage from the world when the threat was over?&quot;
 
Louis:  We wouldn&#039;t disengage from the world.  That is the idea.  Your question contains a false premise, that we are not already doing this stuff.  We are.  And we are misusing the existing military to do it.  The idea is that we are going to continue to do these missions, as we have since the beginning of the country.   See Max Boot&#039;s book &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/046500721X/qid=1093322855/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/102-4069114-0380924?v=glance&amp;s=books&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The Savage Wars of Peace&lt;/a&gt; and Andrew J. Birtle&#039;s &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0788173278/qid=1093322803/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/102-4069114-0380924?v=glance&amp;s=books&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;U.S. Army Counterinsurgency and Contingency Operations Doctrine, 1860-1945&lt;/a&gt;.  Barnett is not the wooly-headed idealist.  He is a realist about what our military can and cannot continue to do, and the need to do this category of job better is extremely apparent in light of our inadequate job planning and executing the reconstruction of post-war Iraq.

Jim:  An all-volunteer SysAdmin force would go in with its eyes open, and the public would know what it was and what it was there for.  The problem is that we have a combat-oriented Army, and when it is doing stuff that doesn&#039;t look like war, then people wonder why people are dying.  Making clear what people are volunteering to do would make the risks and costs more, not less, tolerable to all parties. Or so I see it.  

Andrew, I am serious that there could be a big demand for positions in the SysAdmin force, which would mean that it could be selective and pick good people.  There are many, many mature people with good skills who are not thrilled with their careers or who would like to do something they think is good and important beyond making more a little more money this year than they did last year, or increase widget sales by 5.397% over third quarter last year, or bill 87.25 more hours.  How many recently divorced cops are there who&#039;d say, shit yeah, I&#039;ll go to Sierra Leone for two years, why the Hell not?  How many lawyers would bail out of a practice and help set up a court system in some Hell hole somewhere?  How many experienced nurses would go to some place to train people to run clinics and provide basic care?  I am only half serious when I suggest I would go -- Too many mouths to feed.  But the fact that it appeals to me shows supports me in thinking that sufficient recruitment would be a problem at all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Once we had this Sysadmin department he wants how could we ever disengage from the world when the threat was over?&#8221;</p>
<p>Louis:  We wouldn&#8217;t disengage from the world.  That is the idea.  Your question contains a false premise, that we are not already doing this stuff.  We are.  And we are misusing the existing military to do it.  The idea is that we are going to continue to do these missions, as we have since the beginning of the country.   See Max Boot&#8217;s book <a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/046500721X/qid=1093322855/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/102-4069114-0380924?v=glance&amp;s=books" rel="nofollow">The Savage Wars of Peace</a> and Andrew J. Birtle&#8217;s <a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0788173278/qid=1093322803/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/102-4069114-0380924?v=glance&amp;s=books" rel="nofollow">U.S. Army Counterinsurgency and Contingency Operations Doctrine, 1860-1945</a>.  Barnett is not the wooly-headed idealist.  He is a realist about what our military can and cannot continue to do, and the need to do this category of job better is extremely apparent in light of our inadequate job planning and executing the reconstruction of post-war Iraq.</p>
<p>Jim:  An all-volunteer SysAdmin force would go in with its eyes open, and the public would know what it was and what it was there for.  The problem is that we have a combat-oriented Army, and when it is doing stuff that doesn&#8217;t look like war, then people wonder why people are dying.  Making clear what people are volunteering to do would make the risks and costs more, not less, tolerable to all parties. Or so I see it.  </p>
<p>Andrew, I am serious that there could be a big demand for positions in the SysAdmin force, which would mean that it could be selective and pick good people.  There are many, many mature people with good skills who are not thrilled with their careers or who would like to do something they think is good and important beyond making more a little more money this year than they did last year, or increase widget sales by 5.397% over third quarter last year, or bill 87.25 more hours.  How many recently divorced cops are there who&#8217;d say, shit yeah, I&#8217;ll go to Sierra Leone for two years, why the Hell not?  How many lawyers would bail out of a practice and help set up a court system in some Hell hole somewhere?  How many experienced nurses would go to some place to train people to run clinics and provide basic care?  I am only half serious when I suggest I would go &#8212; Too many mouths to feed.  But the fact that it appeals to me shows supports me in thinking that sufficient recruitment would be a problem at all.</p>
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		<title>By: andrewdb</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/2249.html/comment-page-1#comment-5026</link>
		<dc:creator>andrewdb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Aug 2004 18:51:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/002249.php#comment-5026</guid>
		<description>Michael - actually I am very serious.  Fergeson (sp?) says the US DoD is the only organization in the US that is doing this type of thing, and we need someone else - for all the reasons Lex and others have mentioned.  I agree, not because I want an Empire, but because for me at least the lesson of 9/11 is that we cannot be isolationists any more (much as we might like to be) - the world will find us in spite of that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael &#8211; actually I am very serious.  Fergeson (sp?) says the US DoD is the only organization in the US that is doing this type of thing, and we need someone else &#8211; for all the reasons Lex and others have mentioned.  I agree, not because I want an Empire, but because for me at least the lesson of 9/11 is that we cannot be isolationists any more (much as we might like to be) &#8211; the world will find us in spite of that.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Hiteshew</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/2249.html/comment-page-1#comment-5025</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Hiteshew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Aug 2004 11:49:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/002249.php#comment-5025</guid>
		<description>@Louis
I think you miss Barnett&#039;s point. I also don&#039;t think the Cold War played out against socialist per se, but against communists, who were a wholely different group, much more akin to fascists.

@andrewb
I can&#039;t tell if you&#039;re being facetious or not. I&#039;m guessing you are. I would say in response that lots of folks thought the all volunteer army would be a farce too. It&#039;s turned out to be quite the opposite.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Louis<br />
I think you miss Barnett&#8217;s point. I also don&#8217;t think the Cold War played out against socialist per se, but against communists, who were a wholely different group, much more akin to fascists.</p>
<p>@andrewb<br />
I can&#8217;t tell if you&#8217;re being facetious or not. I&#8217;m guessing you are. I would say in response that lots of folks thought the all volunteer army would be a farce too. It&#8217;s turned out to be quite the opposite.</p>
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		<title>By: andrewdb</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/2249.html/comment-page-1#comment-5024</link>
		<dc:creator>andrewdb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Aug 2004 04:29:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/002249.php#comment-5024</guid>
		<description>Lex, you are absolutely right, this could be popular.  I am part way through the Foreign Service hiring process (like they need 43 year old civil lawyers!), but only because I am too old at this point to sign up for US Army Civil Affairs, which is the group that actualy does this type of work today.  Where do I go to get hired by the Neo-Indian Civil Service?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lex, you are absolutely right, this could be popular.  I am part way through the Foreign Service hiring process (like they need 43 year old civil lawyers!), but only because I am too old at this point to sign up for US Army Civil Affairs, which is the group that actualy does this type of work today.  Where do I go to get hired by the Neo-Indian Civil Service?</p>
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		<title>By: Louis Wheeler</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/2249.html/comment-page-1#comment-5023</link>
		<dc:creator>Louis Wheeler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Aug 2004 03:34:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/002249.php#comment-5023</guid>
		<description>I read Mr. Barnett&#039;s article months ago, and rejected it for the reason that it makes a mess of American domestic and foreign policy. Once we had this Sysadmin department he wants how could we ever disengage from the world when the threat was over? How we declare peace?

Does the American voter want us to become an Empire? That is what we would become if we followed Mr. Bartnett&#039;s advise. Would we voters get a chance to pass on the issue? I think not. Our problems in Iraq are not due to America being too large, but from having a powerful cabal in the State Department of MidEast experts who are opposed to us winning the war.

This war is fought on many fronts; defeating the terrorists and the nations that aid them may be the minor part. The Cold War has ended, but the world has not yet realigned. Old Europe tried to game us; it tried to create a world government under their control of the UN using the US as muscle. That is why the World Court, ABM and Kyoto Treaty&#039;s became controversies. Clinton paid them lip service but Bush would not. 

The Soviet Union was defeated but Socialism struggles on pointlessly. The current war is as much about that as anything. The war forces people to take sides; there will be winners and losers. The Socialists are lining up with the terrorists and will pay the price for doing so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I read Mr. Barnett&#8217;s article months ago, and rejected it for the reason that it makes a mess of American domestic and foreign policy. Once we had this Sysadmin department he wants how could we ever disengage from the world when the threat was over? How we declare peace?</p>
<p>Does the American voter want us to become an Empire? That is what we would become if we followed Mr. Bartnett&#8217;s advise. Would we voters get a chance to pass on the issue? I think not. Our problems in Iraq are not due to America being too large, but from having a powerful cabal in the State Department of MidEast experts who are opposed to us winning the war.</p>
<p>This war is fought on many fronts; defeating the terrorists and the nations that aid them may be the minor part. The Cold War has ended, but the world has not yet realigned. Old Europe tried to game us; it tried to create a world government under their control of the UN using the US as muscle. That is why the World Court, ABM and Kyoto Treaty&#8217;s became controversies. Clinton paid them lip service but Bush would not. </p>
<p>The Soviet Union was defeated but Socialism struggles on pointlessly. The current war is as much about that as anything. The war forces people to take sides; there will be winners and losers. The Socialists are lining up with the terrorists and will pay the price for doing so.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Bennett</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/2249.html/comment-page-1#comment-5022</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Bennett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Aug 2004 03:06:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/002249.php#comment-5022</guid>
		<description>In many ways the model for SysAdmin is not so much the 19th Century British colonial army as it is the Imperial Indian Police and the other colonial constabularies that were very effective in creating local orders.  But the real issue (and one I&#039;m not sure there is an answer to) is how do you get Americans used to the idea that some number of these SysAdmin people are going to get killed in the line of duty, year after year?  In the old days people accepted the idea that some number of Marines got killed on China duty every year; today each death is reported in realtime.

On the other hand, the US public tolerates (and in fact is not really aware of) the substantial number of police killed on duty every year.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In many ways the model for SysAdmin is not so much the 19th Century British colonial army as it is the Imperial Indian Police and the other colonial constabularies that were very effective in creating local orders.  But the real issue (and one I&#8217;m not sure there is an answer to) is how do you get Americans used to the idea that some number of these SysAdmin people are going to get killed in the line of duty, year after year?  In the old days people accepted the idea that some number of Marines got killed on China duty every year; today each death is reported in realtime.</p>
<p>On the other hand, the US public tolerates (and in fact is not really aware of) the substantial number of police killed on duty every year.</p>
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