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	<title>Comments on: Robert Kaplan on the Media and the Military</title>
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	<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/2449.html</link>
	<description>Some Chicago Boyz know each other from student days at the University of Chicago. Others are Chicago boys in spirit. The blog name is also intended as a good-humored gesture of admiration for distinguished Chicago boys including those pictured above.</description>
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		<title>By: Jonathan</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/2449.html/comment-page-1#comment-7105</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jun 2005 19:56:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/002449.php#comment-7105</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Joe!

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Joe!</p>
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		<title>By: Joe Katzman</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/2449.html/comment-page-1#comment-7104</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Katzman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jun 2005 19:35:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/002449.php#comment-7104</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://medialit.med.sc.edu/mediaandthemilitary.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;There is a full version of the article posted at MIT, as part of its media literacy program&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://medialit.med.sc.edu/mediaandthemilitary.htm" rel="nofollow">There is a full version of the article posted at MIT, as part of its media literacy program</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom Grey - Liberty Dad</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/2449.html/comment-page-1#comment-7103</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Grey - Liberty Dad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Oct 2004 09:17:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/002449.php#comment-7103</guid>
		<description></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One Air Force master sergeant told me, &#8220;I reject the notion that Bush is inarticulate. He is more articulate than Clinton. When Bush says something, he&#8217;s clear enough that you argue about whether you agree with him or not. When Clinton talks, you argue over what he really meant.&#8221;<br />
    &#8212;</p>
<p>Oh my. Bingo.  Almost everybody knows, or thinks they know, what Bush means.  But not Kerry. (Quote is of Clinton, charge is worse in Kerry’s case).</p>
<p>The lack of ROTC on elite campuses is a huge, negative, anti-free association thought censorship.  </p>
<p>The Myers-Briggs personality 4-pair tests help here: the elites are NFs and NT, abstract (iNtuitive) Feelers and Thinkers.  Most people are Sensitive (concrete, reality NOT abstract theory), both Ps &amp; Js (um, open-ended and closure-oriented).  Most of the elites all over the world are the 25% Ns, not the 75% Ss.  (I’m an INTP)</p>
<p>And the increase in one-child families means lots of these elites have no family brothers &amp; sisters who really ARE that different (at least two of my four sisters are S); their friends are mostly like themselves and the contact with the others is much less.</p>
<p>Smaller family size is certainly an aspect of reduced understanding for different types of people.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/2449.html/comment-page-1#comment-7102</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Oct 2004 15:44:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/002449.php#comment-7102</guid>
		<description>As Shannon wrote, most people in our society are unfamiliar with how people in other parts of the society live and work. The wacky thing about journalists is that they seem as a rule not to understand this point. Maybe it&#039;s hubris, as though a journalism degree conveyed multi-disciplinary powers of expertise. Academics, entertainers and politicians sometimes have a similar attitude. Successful business and military people tend to come across as much more humble.

Remember Andrew Grove of Intel, whose motto is, &quot;Only the paranoid survive&quot;? His attitude is typical for a successful businessman. How many journalists are as concerned about getting issues and facts right as Grove was about not getting blindsided by misunderstood information?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As Shannon wrote, most people in our society are unfamiliar with how people in other parts of the society live and work. The wacky thing about journalists is that they seem as a rule not to understand this point. Maybe it&#8217;s hubris, as though a journalism degree conveyed multi-disciplinary powers of expertise. Academics, entertainers and politicians sometimes have a similar attitude. Successful business and military people tend to come across as much more humble.</p>
<p>Remember Andrew Grove of Intel, whose motto is, &#8220;Only the paranoid survive&#8221;? His attitude is typical for a successful businessman. How many journalists are as concerned about getting issues and facts right as Grove was about not getting blindsided by misunderstood information?</p>
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		<title>By: Sgt. Mom</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/2449.html/comment-page-1#comment-7101</link>
		<dc:creator>Sgt. Mom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Oct 2004 14:59:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/002449.php#comment-7101</guid>
		<description>I read the article (being a subscriber and always looking forward to each issue)and thought Mr. Kaplan had a very valid point about the unconscious prejudice. It&#039;s not so much that the military is drawn from a lower economic class than the average journalist; it&#039;s actually more of a middle and working class place, rather than poor. Percentages vary from service to service though, and even from speciality to speciality: the Air Force and Navy tend to be a bit more middle-class, the Army and Marines a little more blue-collar.
It is the whole military culture that is alien to most reporters as pointed out above. Everything is different; the language is different, the experience set is different--- your average reporter dropped onto a military base may as well have landed on Mars. They mostly seem to draw their impressions about military people from movies, which isn&#039;t much help. I&#039;ll never forget seeing all the reporters out in the desert during Desert Storm, interviewing military personnel right and left, and practically radiating their plasure and surprise that all the folks they were talking to seemed so very normal and well-adjusted.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I read the article (being a subscriber and always looking forward to each issue)and thought Mr. Kaplan had a very valid point about the unconscious prejudice. It&#8217;s not so much that the military is drawn from a lower economic class than the average journalist; it&#8217;s actually more of a middle and working class place, rather than poor. Percentages vary from service to service though, and even from speciality to speciality: the Air Force and Navy tend to be a bit more middle-class, the Army and Marines a little more blue-collar.<br />
It is the whole military culture that is alien to most reporters as pointed out above. Everything is different; the language is different, the experience set is different&#8212; your average reporter dropped onto a military base may as well have landed on Mars. They mostly seem to draw their impressions about military people from movies, which isn&#8217;t much help. I&#8217;ll never forget seeing all the reporters out in the desert during Desert Storm, interviewing military personnel right and left, and practically radiating their plasure and surprise that all the folks they were talking to seemed so very normal and well-adjusted.</p>
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		<title>By: Lex</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/2449.html/comment-page-1#comment-7100</link>
		<dc:creator>Lex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Oct 2004 01:00:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/002449.php#comment-7100</guid>
		<description>Giles, most amusing.  We could see the reporters embedded with Zarquawi&#039;s guys get beheaded in grainy video footage.  I hope they wouldn&#039;t feel like they weren&#039;t being objective as they were getting their throats cut.  After all, can&#039;t be a whore for the Pentagon, try to understand that they are acting out of frustratred rage against oppression, etc.  Ha.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Giles, most amusing.  We could see the reporters embedded with Zarquawi&#8217;s guys get beheaded in grainy video footage.  I hope they wouldn&#8217;t feel like they weren&#8217;t being objective as they were getting their throats cut.  After all, can&#8217;t be a whore for the Pentagon, try to understand that they are acting out of frustratred rage against oppression, etc.  Ha.</p>
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		<title>By: Giles</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/2449.html/comment-page-1#comment-7099</link>
		<dc:creator>Giles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Oct 2004 21:33:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/002449.php#comment-7099</guid>
		<description>The whole article seems to implicitly on the premis of objective reporting.

To get a good story, some journalists embed with the army, some embed with the &quot;freedom fighters&quot;.  2 points of view with a clear delineation on who to beleive.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The whole article seems to implicitly on the premis of objective reporting.</p>
<p>To get a good story, some journalists embed with the army, some embed with the &#8220;freedom fighters&#8221;.  2 points of view with a clear delineation on who to beleive.</p>
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		<title>By: Shannon Love</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/2449.html/comment-page-1#comment-7098</link>
		<dc:creator>Shannon Love</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Oct 2004 20:58:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/002449.php#comment-7098</guid>
		<description>I think the problem we are facing is not one of &quot;class&quot; which is connected to income and family but one of subcultures that arise around economic specialization. 

The behavioral attributes that makes one a successful journalist or academician are much different from those that make one a successful farmer or army officer. 

Journalist can no longer relate to the larger population because they enter their own little subculture in late high school or early college and then never leave. They have no real-world experiences outside the subculture. There criteria for what makes a successful and &quot;good&quot; person becomes the criteria for becoming a successful journalist. 

Everybody has this problem. Outside of our area of specialization, we&#039;re idiots and we have little understanding of the nuances of peoples lives.  Business people or military people don&#039;t know what it&#039;s like to be a journalist. Farmers don&#039;t know what problems artist face. 

This would not be a problem except to many of us have the idea that our knowledge and experience encompass the knowledge and experiences of others. We believe that we are superior in some sense and that the world view of others is just a limited subset of our own. Understanding that even the brightest human can comprehend only a sliver of all that it means to be human is a leap of humility that few of us, especially the best of us, can make.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the problem we are facing is not one of &#8220;class&#8221; which is connected to income and family but one of subcultures that arise around economic specialization. </p>
<p>The behavioral attributes that makes one a successful journalist or academician are much different from those that make one a successful farmer or army officer. </p>
<p>Journalist can no longer relate to the larger population because they enter their own little subculture in late high school or early college and then never leave. They have no real-world experiences outside the subculture. There criteria for what makes a successful and &#8220;good&#8221; person becomes the criteria for becoming a successful journalist. </p>
<p>Everybody has this problem. Outside of our area of specialization, we&#8217;re idiots and we have little understanding of the nuances of peoples lives.  Business people or military people don&#8217;t know what it&#8217;s like to be a journalist. Farmers don&#8217;t know what problems artist face. </p>
<p>This would not be a problem except to many of us have the idea that our knowledge and experience encompass the knowledge and experiences of others. We believe that we are superior in some sense and that the world view of others is just a limited subset of our own. Understanding that even the brightest human can comprehend only a sliver of all that it means to be human is a leap of humility that few of us, especially the best of us, can make.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/2449.html/comment-page-1#comment-7097</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Oct 2004 20:54:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/002449.php#comment-7097</guid>
		<description>Interesting that when it comes to having multiple points of view reflected, Kaplan opts for embedding instead of a diversity program with quotas for hiring. I guess you have to be the right kind of excluded group to get that treatment. 

The bad news for the media elite is that its overly inbred herd mentality is reducing its total available audience as well as its grip on reality. Decades ago I subscribed to Harpers and The Atlantic. Years ago Harpers got irritating and I let the subscription lapse. Now the Atlantic often remains unfinished when the next issue arives. There are just too many points of view available in real time on the net now, versus the all too predictable MSM, even in the regrettable absence of Steven Den Beste and Don Sensing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting that when it comes to having multiple points of view reflected, Kaplan opts for embedding instead of a diversity program with quotas for hiring. I guess you have to be the right kind of excluded group to get that treatment. </p>
<p>The bad news for the media elite is that its overly inbred herd mentality is reducing its total available audience as well as its grip on reality. Decades ago I subscribed to Harpers and The Atlantic. Years ago Harpers got irritating and I let the subscription lapse. Now the Atlantic often remains unfinished when the next issue arives. There are just too many points of view available in real time on the net now, versus the all too predictable MSM, even in the regrettable absence of Steven Den Beste and Don Sensing.</p>
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		<title>By: Steven Den Beste</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/2449.html/comment-page-1#comment-7096</link>
		<dc:creator>Steven Den Beste</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Oct 2004 17:01:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/002449.php#comment-7096</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s &quot;subscribers only&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s &#8220;subscribers only&#8221;.</p>
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