I once gave a talk to some 3rd graders, I think, on Channukah and one third grader (maybe it was fifth grade) was astonished that the holiday was celebrated with kids wagering.

That particular kid treated the dreidel as if it was radioactive.

;-)

An interesting thing is that, judging from the pop culture shows, Japanese celebrate Christmas with no Christian influence at all. It’s a purely secular holiday. It’s as commercial a holiday as our worst stereotypes of Christmas.

And yet, i suspect that the anti-Christmas movement would have as big a bellyache about Japanese Christmas as they do about US Christmas. Because of religion? No, because of the sense of community, consideration and reconciliation. Christmas episodes in dramas (we might call them prime time soap operas)are the ones where the divorcees reminisce about what went right about their marriage. In Maison Ikkoku, an animated prime time soap, it’s when the male love interest character goes and gets a rock analyzed and appraised, because it was owned by the prior husband of the widow he is courting, and special to her. Never mind that he feels he is in direct competition with the dead husband for her affections. (Everlasting one true love is not just an Anglosphere story line.) It’s when the feuding office co-workers resolve that next year, they will work together.

And if we judge from US pop culture? Beavis and Butthead, The Simpsons, gangsta rap? It’s pretty easy to see how folk with these cultural aspirations could be alienated, not by religion, but even by How the Grinch Stole Christmas, and MaGoo’s Christmas Carol.

PJ points out that a Ramadan feast was allowed on school property. This one wonders if it would have been acceptable if it had been realized that Ramadan is a time of fasting and restraint, not just from food, but from anger, sexual activity and quarreling.

Matya no baka

LA County is removing a tiny cross from its seal for fear of an ACLU lawsuit like the one against Redlands, which has already caved.

At the university where I work, the word Christmas has been banned, yet the Muslim Student Association sponsors a Ramadan feast on school property!

I go to my nephew’s bar mitzvah and read up on all the customs and the appropriate gift to give beforehand so I can honor someone else’s traditions. If the word “Christmas” or the sight of a tree on public property is “offensive” the fault lies within the beholder. Life is not perfectly equal; the whole argument to me smacks of sibling rivalry rather than some kind of oppression by the majority culture.

Ouch.

Hmmm. I’d say this is a blog whose members are generally conservative in their political outlook. But it’s definitely not religiously or culturally homogeneous. There’re at least three major religions represented here: Christians, Jews and a Moslem. Jonathon started this blog and he’s Jewish. In addition, Syl is French and Sulaiman is Afghani and Ralf is German. Regular commentors include Matya (I have no idea of his nationality) who seems to have an encyclopedic knowledge of Asian and Middle Eastern history and Helen, who I believe is German. Pretty eclectic bunch we are. I like it that way.

Which reminds me, I wonder if we could entice a Brit or two to sign up?

Sylvain once wrote, “We use live ammunition around here.” Meaning we say what we really think and expect others to tell us what they really think, which makes for a lot of interesting and sometimes fairly heated discussions.

Like a paid federal holiday?

Thanks for reading my comment!

I do not think that people should be dissallowed from using any words on their blogs. I just think that sometimes people have reasonable points that can get lost in language. I was guessing you didn’t mean to belittle pogroms, but it could be interpreted that way by someone who didn’t know you.

I am *certainly* not innocent of offending people or using the wrong words. And it really sucks when people feel like they can’t even express themselves because they have to be so careful not to offend. I actually don’t use words like inquisition, holocaust, crussade, lynching, jihad casually (although oddly I was using the word fatwah for a while in the late 1990s) but I definitely can be really, purposely, inflamatory if you get me going on the right topic. But when I’m trying to make an argument (rather than just commiserating with friends who already agree with me) I try not to use words that will turn folks off before they’ve heard me out. I might totally be misunderstanding the chicagoboyz blog here… I’m a new reader. Perhaps this is more of a space for people who share your views already. And that’s *totally* cool. Everyone who reads my blog agrees with most of what I post (the most recent posting on my blog was of a rabbit hood ornament.)

I’m aware of the word’s provenance. I ran across the word many years ago and looked it up. It led me to reading up a little on the history of pogroms in tsarist Russia.

I used it deliberately and ironically, in the sense of attacking a particular group for their religious beliefs. Similar, I might add, to Jon’s using the word ‘jihad’ in an ironic sense. I guess if you’re Sudanese and recently on the receiving end of jihad, you might be offended.

I’m sorry if you find it offensive. It was not meant to offend or belittle anything. I was simply cashing in on the words cache. Have you ever used the word ‘inquisition’ to describe some process of overdone interrogation? Wouldn’t you (or anyone) be guilty of the same thing you’re accusing me of?

Oddly, your complaint fits in perfectly to this discussion. Should people be disallowed from using the word ‘pogrom’ out of its exact historical context because a particular group finds it association with historic events unpleasant? Are you prepared to admonish people not to use the word ‘inquisition’ without prior approval from any atheists/Protestants/Jews/Moslems/etc who might encounter or hear the word for fear of offending them? How about slavery? Can we use that word? Jihad? Suicide bomber? Lynching? Where does it end?

This is exactly the problem we’re having with Christmas in the schools. Someone complains they don’t want their atheist/Jewish/Moslem/Hindu/Buddhist/Druid/Wiccan child exposed to very mention of the word Christmas for fear it might upset them. It’s political correctness running mad. As Dick said, it’s becoming a tyranny of the minority. The majority is being admonished against celebrating its biggest holiday for fear some minority member might be present and not wish to be exposed. To them I say, stop being so infantile and ridiculus.

I noticed you used the word “pogrom” 3 times in your post. I’d really recommend against using this term when you discuss your disdain about Christmas being driven out of a public school. It just makes it seem like you are belittling a tragic period in history and it distracts the reader from your argument.

For more information on pogroms, see:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pogrom

If you look at my previous comment you’ll see that I wrote:

Note that I don’t mind if they hold Christmas concerts in the public square. No one is being forced to attend, which is not the case WRT schools.

I also generally agree with Yehudit’s comment about “privileging one celebration over another,” though a sense of proportion is called for (I don’t see why it’s a problem if a town with a small Jewish minority doesn’t make nearly as much fuss about Jewish holidays as about Christmas, for example). I’m not knowledgeable about Lakewood but it sounds like the town leaders behaved foolishly. This is an area that should be the province of local custom and common sense. Not everyone has common sense but that’s not a solvable problem.

In case my earlier commments weren’t clear, I don’t advocate suppressing the Christian majority’s celebration of Christmas. Quite the opposite. I am suggesting that we would be better off if our bureaucracies, particularly the schools, didn’t pretend that religion doesn’t exist or that everyone equally shares an appreciation of a dereligionized “holiday season.” The reason I wrote that it’s unproductive to complain about minority-group spoilsports is that I have been on the receiving end of such complaints and find them unconvincing.

Seems to me the problem is privileging one celebration over another. I would not agree with putting up the menorah right after banning the Christmas tree. That’s just rubbing it in. You put up both or neither.

I just want to say I love all the lights on people’s homes, and driving around to look at them. Actually that’s a custom some Jews have adopted, putting colored lights on our sukkot. Different time of year though.