<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: The &#8220;Public Health&#8221; Non Sequitur</title>
	<atom:link href="http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/2688.html/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/2688.html</link>
	<description>Some Chicago Boyz know each other from student days at the University of Chicago. Others are Chicago boys in spirit. The blog name is also intended as a good-humored gesture of admiration for distinguished Chicago boys including those pictured above.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 24 May 2012 03:04:48 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.4</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jonathan</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/2688.html/comment-page-1#comment-8435</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Dec 2004 05:31:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/002688.php#comment-8435</guid>
		<description>Chel, thanks. I understand what WebMD is doing but I&#039;m interpreting Kellerman&#039;s current behavior in light of his past behavior. He has a history of making heavy-handed, essentially political recommendations based, as I see it, on a combination of hubris and faulty interpretation of data.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chel, thanks. I understand what WebMD is doing but I&#8217;m interpreting Kellerman&#8217;s current behavior in light of his past behavior. He has a history of making heavy-handed, essentially political recommendations based, as I see it, on a combination of hubris and faulty interpretation of data.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Chel</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/2688.html/comment-page-1#comment-8434</link>
		<dc:creator>Chel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Dec 2004 04:08:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/002688.php#comment-8434</guid>
		<description>Hi Jonathan,

Sorry it&#039;s taken me a while to get back to you on this.  I&#039;ve been a bit busy lately.

My point was that from what I read of the WebMD article, Kellerman was just trying to provide information to individuals who are going to make health decisions for themselves.  Health decisions can be very complicated and my understanding of the purpose of the WebMD site is to provide info to individuals making decisions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Jonathan,</p>
<p>Sorry it&#8217;s taken me a while to get back to you on this.  I&#8217;ve been a bit busy lately.</p>
<p>My point was that from what I read of the WebMD article, Kellerman was just trying to provide information to individuals who are going to make health decisions for themselves.  Health decisions can be very complicated and my understanding of the purpose of the WebMD site is to provide info to individuals making decisions.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jonathan</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/2688.html/comment-page-1#comment-8433</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Dec 2004 17:47:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/002688.php#comment-8433</guid>
		<description>chel, I think that individuals and families can, in this as in other areas of life, make such decisions for themselves better than Kellerman can make them for them. Kellerman&#039;s problem is that he doesn&#039;t appreciate this point. Adam Smith had people like Kellerman pegged:
&lt;blockquote&gt;
The statesman, who should attempt to direct private people in what manner they ought to employ their capitals, would not only load himself with a most unnecessary attention, but assume an authority which could safely be trusted, not only to no single person, but to no council or senate whatever, and which would nowhere be so dangerous as in the hands of a man who had folly and presumption enough to fancy himself fit to exercise it.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>chel, I think that individuals and families can, in this as in other areas of life, make such decisions for themselves better than Kellerman can make them for them. Kellerman&#8217;s problem is that he doesn&#8217;t appreciate this point. Adam Smith had people like Kellerman pegged:</p>
<blockquote><p>
The statesman, who should attempt to direct private people in what manner they ought to employ their capitals, would not only load himself with a most unnecessary attention, but assume an authority which could safely be trusted, not only to no single person, but to no council or senate whatever, and which would nowhere be so dangerous as in the hands of a man who had folly and presumption enough to fancy himself fit to exercise it.
</p></blockquote>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: chel</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/2688.html/comment-page-1#comment-8432</link>
		<dc:creator>chel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Dec 2004 06:31:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/002688.php#comment-8432</guid>
		<description>I think Verde&#039;s point is really great.  Having AEDs in public places makes sense.

But back to the original article that contained Kellerman&#039;s comments.  I didn&#039;t get that Kellerman wanted to &quot;wanted the government to block you from having&quot; as Jonathan said in his post.  They way I read it, Kellerman had two points:

1.) A downside of AEDs in the home is that it may delay a 911 call.  And it&#039;s not clear what is more likely to save lives... attempting to use the AED and delaying a 911 call or calling 911 immediately.

2.)  Every time a family spends dollars on one thing, these are funds that are not being spent on something else.   For a lot of people joining a health club or a smoking cessation group would be a better way to spend this money.

(article at:   
http://my.webmd.com/content/article/92/101640.htm)

But as far as I could tell Kellerman was not arguing that AEDs be illegal.  (Perhaps they might be available only by perscription if the FDA changes course.  But a perscription is not much of an obstacle for someone who is at risk.)  He was just offering his opinion on whether it made sense for individuals to choose to buy them.  That&#039;s the type of content that WebMD is known to provide -- advice for individuals who are in the midst of health decisions.  As they say, &quot;WebMD provides valuable health information, tools for managing your health, and support to those who seek information.&quot;

Let me know if I&#039;m missing something here...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Verde&#8217;s point is really great.  Having AEDs in public places makes sense.</p>
<p>But back to the original article that contained Kellerman&#8217;s comments.  I didn&#8217;t get that Kellerman wanted to &#8220;wanted the government to block you from having&#8221; as Jonathan said in his post.  They way I read it, Kellerman had two points:</p>
<p>1.) A downside of AEDs in the home is that it may delay a 911 call.  And it&#8217;s not clear what is more likely to save lives&#8230; attempting to use the AED and delaying a 911 call or calling 911 immediately.</p>
<p>2.)  Every time a family spends dollars on one thing, these are funds that are not being spent on something else.   For a lot of people joining a health club or a smoking cessation group would be a better way to spend this money.</p>
<p>(article at:<br />
<a href="http://my.webmd.com/content/article/92/101640.htm)" rel="nofollow">http://my.webmd.com/content/article/92/101640.htm)</a></p>
<p>But as far as I could tell Kellerman was not arguing that AEDs be illegal.  (Perhaps they might be available only by perscription if the FDA changes course.  But a perscription is not much of an obstacle for someone who is at risk.)  He was just offering his opinion on whether it made sense for individuals to choose to buy them.  That&#8217;s the type of content that WebMD is known to provide &#8212; advice for individuals who are in the midst of health decisions.  As they say, &#8220;WebMD provides valuable health information, tools for managing your health, and support to those who seek information.&#8221;</p>
<p>Let me know if I&#8217;m missing something here&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Verde</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/2688.html/comment-page-1#comment-8431</link>
		<dc:creator>Verde</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Dec 2004 15:59:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/002688.php#comment-8431</guid>
		<description>What an amazingly rich country, where people can afford to have their own defibrillators at home!   Many hospitals in third world countries don&#039;t have a single functioning defibrillator. 

Anywhere moderate to large numbers of people congregate,  a defibrillator should be available.  I won&#039;t be buying a defibrillator for myself or loved ones anytime soon, but I&#039;d contribute to help buy a defibrillator for a local high school (for athletics), Little League, or church.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What an amazingly rich country, where people can afford to have their own defibrillators at home!   Many hospitals in third world countries don&#8217;t have a single functioning defibrillator. </p>
<p>Anywhere moderate to large numbers of people congregate,  a defibrillator should be available.  I won&#8217;t be buying a defibrillator for myself or loved ones anytime soon, but I&#8217;d contribute to help buy a defibrillator for a local high school (for athletics), Little League, or church.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jonathan</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/2688.html/comment-page-1#comment-8430</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Dec 2004 14:54:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/002688.php#comment-8430</guid>
		<description>I suspect that Kellerman&#039;s central problem is hubris -- he thinks that he can decide better for other people than they can for themselves.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I suspect that Kellerman&#8217;s central problem is hubris &#8212; he thinks that he can decide better for other people than they can for themselves.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: sjvan</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/2688.html/comment-page-1#comment-8429</link>
		<dc:creator>sjvan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Dec 2004 14:44:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/002688.php#comment-8429</guid>
		<description>He confuses an important point:  the difference between what I can do for myself and what I can do for others,

I can buy my father a membership on a gym, or a box of bran cereal, but I can&#039;t make him excercise or eat right.  But I can buy him an AED.  An important distinction.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>He confuses an important point:  the difference between what I can do for myself and what I can do for others,</p>
<p>I can buy my father a membership on a gym, or a box of bran cereal, but I can&#8217;t make him excercise or eat right.  But I can buy him an AED.  An important distinction.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jonathan</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/2688.html/comment-page-1#comment-8428</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Dec 2004 14:58:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/002688.php#comment-8428</guid>
		<description>Steve, thanks. Happy holidays to you too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve, thanks. Happy holidays to you too.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/2688.html/comment-page-1#comment-8427</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Dec 2004 14:25:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/002688.php#comment-8427</guid>
		<description>Johnathan,
I must commend you for your writing style.  It was a swift read, with adept use of italics, links and logics formulas.  Your numbered points serve as easy stepping stones leading directly to your concise warning.

What a delight to read - Wheaties for the Brain!

Now on to Ginny and the Cole Kerfuffle.
Happy holidays, Steve</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Johnathan,<br />
I must commend you for your writing style.  It was a swift read, with adept use of italics, links and logics formulas.  Your numbered points serve as easy stepping stones leading directly to your concise warning.</p>
<p>What a delight to read &#8211; Wheaties for the Brain!</p>
<p>Now on to Ginny and the Cole Kerfuffle.<br />
Happy holidays, Steve</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Engineer-Poet</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/2688.html/comment-page-1#comment-8426</link>
		<dc:creator>Engineer-Poet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Dec 2004 06:02:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/002688.php#comment-8426</guid>
		<description>I think that the fact of what is in public policy may imply what ought to be... for public policy.&#160; But when it comes to an individual looking after their own health, the statistics and interests of the general public do not apply.

It is obviously better for people to eat better and exercise than to let their health slide and get implantable defibrillators, but how then do you justify Dick Cheney?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that the fact of what is in public policy may imply what ought to be&#8230; for public policy.&nbsp; But when it comes to an individual looking after their own health, the statistics and interests of the general public do not apply.</p>
<p>It is obviously better for people to eat better and exercise than to let their health slide and get implantable defibrillators, but how then do you justify Dick Cheney?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jonathan</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/2688.html/comment-page-1#comment-8425</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Dec 2004 00:36:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/002688.php#comment-8425</guid>
		<description>Lori, thanks. You hit the nail on the head. The modern &quot;public health&quot; mentality is crudely utilitarian. What makes it crude is that it treats decision making as a simple, godlike activity, done from on high by experts, and ignores the enormous aggregate utility that comes from the unfathomably complex matrix of individuals making their own decisions. Utility for whom? -- that is the question.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lori, thanks. You hit the nail on the head. The modern &#8220;public health&#8221; mentality is crudely utilitarian. What makes it crude is that it treats decision making as a simple, godlike activity, done from on high by experts, and ignores the enormous aggregate utility that comes from the unfathomably complex matrix of individuals making their own decisions. Utility for whom? &#8212; that is the question.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Lorien Hiteshew</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/2688.html/comment-page-1#comment-8424</link>
		<dc:creator>Lorien Hiteshew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Dec 2004 21:05:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/002688.php#comment-8424</guid>
		<description>I can&#039;t say I know much about the medicine discussed here, but I did just complete a senior level Ethics class at UMCP.

Typical Utilitarian thinking:

x results in z
y results in 100z

Since we &quot;ought&quot; to maximize results, regardless of individual need, it is therefore best that everyone employ y to achieve 100z.
----
But, I agree with you here. It is not for Kellerman to recommend what we &quot;ought&quot; to do. This sort of flawed reasoning is outlined by Hume (Hume&#039;s Law).  Just because it &quot;is&quot; the case currently, doesn&#039;t mean it &quot;ought&quot; to be so.  You can&#039;t derive an &quot;ought&quot; from an &quot;is&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can&#8217;t say I know much about the medicine discussed here, but I did just complete a senior level Ethics class at UMCP.</p>
<p>Typical Utilitarian thinking:</p>
<p>x results in z<br />
y results in 100z</p>
<p>Since we &#8220;ought&#8221; to maximize results, regardless of individual need, it is therefore best that everyone employ y to achieve 100z.<br />
&#8212;-<br />
But, I agree with you here. It is not for Kellerman to recommend what we &#8220;ought&#8221; to do. This sort of flawed reasoning is outlined by Hume (Hume&#8217;s Law).  Just because it &#8220;is&#8221; the case currently, doesn&#8217;t mean it &#8220;ought&#8221; to be so.  You can&#8217;t derive an &#8220;ought&#8221; from an &#8220;is&#8221;.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: tipperography</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/2688.html/comment-page-1#comment-8436</link>
		<dc:creator>tipperography</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Dec 2004 20:59:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/002688.php#comment-8436</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Who gets to decide rather than which decisions to make&lt;/strong&gt;

I think I was just talking about something similar to this. Jonathon Gerwitz at Chicago Boyz give us Arthur Kellerman&#039;s objections to home defibrillators.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Who gets to decide rather than which decisions to make</strong></p>
<p>I think I was just talking about something similar to this. Jonathon Gerwitz at Chicago Boyz give us Arthur Kellerman&#8217;s objections to home defibrillators.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

