Comments on: The EU arms embargo on China: An overview

By: NickOhio

NickOhio — Tue, 05 Apr 2005 08:42:52 +0000

Leave NATO? Lord, I think what this discussion is missing is the fact that the current embargo hasnt stopped France and the UK from selling weapons to China for years. The Embargo is a political document that has been interpreted loosly from the start. So even if the embargo stays weapons will continue to goto China. I see this situation as an opportunity because if it is handeled the right way we may end up with a strengthened Arms Code of Conduct that actually limits in concrete the export of high technology to the Chinese, while lifting the embargo that is seen by the Chinese as an association with the likes of Burma. Maybe we can even get them to sign the Covenant on Political and Civil rights.

By: Steve

Steve — Sun, 27 Feb 2005 00:44:03 +0000

Testing: This is a good read. Tks Ralf.

By: Steve

Steve — Sun, 27 Feb 2005 00:37:09 +0000

Testing: Four Hills is the place for me.
Warum müssen die deütches so viele umlauts üsen?

By: Steve

Steve — Sat, 26 Feb 2005 13:26:27 +0000

Thanks Ralf,
I’m working to make my comments more dynamic in the future, and to link to my sources a whole lot more. Your tips are very helpful towards that end.

-Steve

By: John Fisher

John Fisher — Sat, 26 Feb 2005 10:50:52 +0000

I think it is time to leave Nato. If the European countries cannot see that selling arms to China is an action dramaticly against our interests we should no longer expend any effort defending them.

By: Ralf Goergens

Ralf Goergens — Thu, 24 Feb 2005 14:21:36 +0000

Yes, it works. I can’t display the codes for the special characters here because they are automatically converted into those characters, so you have to look them up yourself. :)

By: Ralf Goergens

Ralf Goergens — Thu, 24 Feb 2005 14:20:01 +0000

Test:

By: Ralf Goergens

Ralf Goergens — Thu, 24 Feb 2005 14:17:19 +0000

Steve, here's a list of special characters under HTML

By: John F

John F — Thu, 24 Feb 2005 13:47:41 +0000

There are some indications that British decision to go along with lifting the EU arms embargo relates to congressmen Henry J. Hyde and Duncan Hunterending blocking a UK exemption from rules on special licenses for exporting unclassified military technologies. See Washington Post
article.
Still a mistake, though.

Tman: “I can’t imagine what OTHER reason China has for wanting the ban lifted other than buy more weapons.”
I can. Face.
I’m not saying it’s so in this case, but with China it’s always a possible factor.

By: Steve

Steve — Thu, 24 Feb 2005 00:58:43 +0000

Ralf, how’d you get the umlaut over Schroder’s “O?”

-Steve

By: Tman

Tman — Wed, 23 Feb 2005 23:47:55 +0000

Um, I have a question-

If China says “it sees the weapons ban as politically driven, and does not want it lifted in order to buy more weapons”- then why are they considering lifting the ban?

And uh Jack-”The result of any decision [to lift the arms embargo] should not be an increase in arms exports from European Union member states to China, either in quantitative or qualitative terms”- then why are you lifting the ban?

Taiwan must be absolutely freaking out over this, and I don’t blame them. I can’t imagine what OTHER reason China has for wanting the ban lifted other than buy more weapons. This is ludicrous.

By: Richard Heddleson

Richard Heddleson — Wed, 23 Feb 2005 23:36:06 +0000

Thanks for the compliment.

By: Lex

Lex — Wed, 23 Feb 2005 22:56:23 +0000

Richard, we think exactly alike.

By: Richard Heddleson

Richard Heddleson — Wed, 23 Feb 2005 22:42:15 +0000

It certainly isn’t unrealistic to make that assumption, but is is reckless to depend on it.

By: Ralf Goergens

Ralf Goergens — Wed, 23 Feb 2005 22:04:59 +0000

The idea that having too much to lose isn’t enough to prevent war, but it is one reason to avoid it.
One point remains, though: If China can’t do business with the United States, it is thoroughly buggered, and will be still worse off than anybody else. It isn’t unrealistic to assume that this will make it behave itself.

By: Richard Heddleson

Richard Heddleson — Wed, 23 Feb 2005 21:52:18 +0000

Don't the folks over there remember the effect of Europe's wars on the economy of the twentieth century? Do they still teach Norman Angell in school? It is astounding to me that Europeans keep thinking war has a only to do with economics. They should try Thucydides instead.

By: Ralf Goergens

Ralf Goergens — Wed, 23 Feb 2005 21:06:59 +0000

Brett, Richard,

nobody over here can really imagine that there could be a shooting war between China and the United Staetes. And it truly is very unlikely, for such a war would flush the world economy right down the toilet, so that nobody wants it, not even the Chinese.

By: Richard Heddleson

Richard Heddleson — Wed, 23 Feb 2005 20:55:22 +0000

We can save the semantic discusion until the Chinese start killing Americans with their European weapons. At that time it will be more clear which side the Europeans have chosen. In any case, it’s clear we would be foolish assume they would be on our side.

It’s also going to be interesting to see who is and is not protected by the US ABM system. No doubt the EU will choose to buy one from the Russians.

By: Brett Bellmore

Brett Bellmore — Wed, 23 Feb 2005 20:06:00 +0000

“but I disagree that Europe would be acting as an enemy of America if it did so. For if the EU really were an enemy it wouldn’t have imposed the embargo after the massacre in Tiananem place in the first place.”

I’m rationally ignorant about whether they really ARE an enemy, or just stupid, greedy amoral SOBs, but the above doesn’t follow; They could, after all, have BECOME an enemy some time after the embargo began, couldn’t they?

By: Ralf Goergens

Ralf Goergens — Wed, 23 Feb 2005 19:59:24 +0000

1) I think it’s the heads of the government who will vote on this, and not the EU Commision. Schr�der is unlikely to change his opinion, but other countries will feel encouraged to veto the lifting, even if the majority of governments is in favor.

2) The EU parliament will be ignored by those who don’t want to hear what it has to say, but its vote will encourage those who are against the lifting of the embargo, too.

Anyway, it’s unlikely to be voted on before August
or September.