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	<title>Comments on: Lisa, the Post-Modernist Simpson</title>
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	<description>Some Chicago Boyz know each other from student days at the University of Chicago. Others are Chicago boys in spirit. The blog name is also intended as a good-humored gesture of admiration for distinguished Chicago boys including those pictured above.</description>
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		<title>By: decorabilia</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/3176.html/comment-page-1#comment-12678</link>
		<dc:creator>decorabilia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jun 2005 01:46:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/003176.php#comment-12678</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;smarter than I #5: Deep Throat edition&lt;/strong&gt;

Your posting has been included in the most recent &quot;Smarter than I&quot; carnival.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>smarter than I #5: Deep Throat edition</strong></p>
<p>Your posting has been included in the most recent &#8220;Smarter than I&#8221; carnival.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/3176.html/comment-page-1#comment-12677</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 May 2005 13:40:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/003176.php#comment-12677</guid>
		<description></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shannon, What a fun essay!  Almost removes guilt about consuming low-brow cultural products, seeing that they can be redeemed in this fashion.  Your method of explication might lend itself to other cultural events, like the OJ Simpson trial.  I’ve looked at media events, and felt that they were significant, but I have been unsure just what they might signify.</p>
<p>In reading blogs of varying idiotalogical persuasions it’s fun to see what they’re talking or not talking about.  Your Lancet expose has provoked quite a response here at Chicago Boyz, and the issue even takes a pride of place spot at the top of the blog.  The Simpson essay continues the saga with a dark and sinister reading of scientific crimes.  Would it be fair to characterize this reading of the Lancet article as a literal reading, very insistent that it meet truth claims in a particular way?  Would that be comparable to a fundamentalist reading of the seven day creation story as a seven day story?</p>
<p>My own reading would be more like a mainline protestant reading of the creation story as a myth.  I look at the Lancet story, see a claim that a lot of families have been affected in bad ways by a war, and think, yes, that’s plausible.  Liberal blogs seem to take the Lancet study pretty much at face value, and read it in an uncritical manner.   This style of reading acknowledges human costs, but elides your concern about violating the canons of scientific research.  </p>
<p>The literal, fundamentalist reading style is showing up on liberal blogs in their reading of  the “smoking gun memo” from England that suggests the war was decided on, and then work on a politically palatable rationale for it began.  They might see it as a violation of the canons of truth in public discourse.  Other blogs might not comment on it at all, or read it more mythically as a minor episode in the heroic struggle to instill democracy in the Middle East.  Would that be more of a mainline protestant “liberal” reading of the memo?</p>
<p>At any rate, thanks for an excellent essay—very thought provoking.</p>
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		<title>By: W Sol Vason</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/3176.html/comment-page-1#comment-12676</link>
		<dc:creator>W Sol Vason</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 May 2005 20:42:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/003176.php#comment-12676</guid>
		<description>Some people feel that just because they are highly educated that they are superior to those who have lesser education. There is the empirical fact the comparing themselves one on one vs all comers they emerge superior.  

And this finding encourages elitism that expresses itself as disdain for those conventions that shackle the little people and an expectation that as a member of the elite they are immune to censure.  

If a few of the masses die as a result of the action of an elite, it is the fault of the masses for misunderstanding their betters.

Membership in an elite can be given to new members only by existing members.  There are no elections.  Elites are dedicated to making the status quo work &quot;properly&quot; because they cannot agree on a common vision for the future that differs at all from the present.

The Newsweek article is a typical elitist criticism of Bush Middle East foreign policy. Bush&#039;s policy repudiates the fundamental tenets of the Elitist Middle Eastern policy which has been maintained since the Crusades by a consensus of highly educated members of the elite who all have framed their diplomas and hung them on the wall (all earned, none honorary).  Bush is not a member of the elite because his education is suspect, he has engaged in commerce, and he is a red-neck republican.

Because the elite know Bush&#039;s policy is unquestionably wrong, it is acceptable to damn it with made-up factoids (after all, who has time to abandon valuable research to find true factoids that every one knows must exist.)  

The same is true of
1. the lancet article
2. global warming
3. marijuana laws 
4. driving &quot;under the influence&quot;
5. protecting endangered species
6. speed limits
7. gun control
8. out-sourcing jobs to other companies, cities, states, countries or continents
9. NEA control of public education vs NCLB
10. etc</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some people feel that just because they are highly educated that they are superior to those who have lesser education. There is the empirical fact the comparing themselves one on one vs all comers they emerge superior.  </p>
<p>And this finding encourages elitism that expresses itself as disdain for those conventions that shackle the little people and an expectation that as a member of the elite they are immune to censure.  </p>
<p>If a few of the masses die as a result of the action of an elite, it is the fault of the masses for misunderstanding their betters.</p>
<p>Membership in an elite can be given to new members only by existing members.  There are no elections.  Elites are dedicated to making the status quo work &#8220;properly&#8221; because they cannot agree on a common vision for the future that differs at all from the present.</p>
<p>The Newsweek article is a typical elitist criticism of Bush Middle East foreign policy. Bush&#8217;s policy repudiates the fundamental tenets of the Elitist Middle Eastern policy which has been maintained since the Crusades by a consensus of highly educated members of the elite who all have framed their diplomas and hung them on the wall (all earned, none honorary).  Bush is not a member of the elite because his education is suspect, he has engaged in commerce, and he is a red-neck republican.</p>
<p>Because the elite know Bush&#8217;s policy is unquestionably wrong, it is acceptable to damn it with made-up factoids (after all, who has time to abandon valuable research to find true factoids that every one knows must exist.)  </p>
<p>The same is true of<br />
1. the lancet article<br />
2. global warming<br />
3. marijuana laws<br />
4. driving &#8220;under the influence&#8221;<br />
5. protecting endangered species<br />
6. speed limits<br />
7. gun control<br />
8. out-sourcing jobs to other companies, cities, states, countries or continents<br />
9. NEA control of public education vs NCLB<br />
10. etc</p>
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		<title>By: David Foster</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/3176.html/comment-page-1#comment-12675</link>
		<dc:creator>David Foster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 May 2005 14:09:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/003176.php#comment-12675</guid>
		<description>But Lisa, for all her irritating characterists, is basically a nice and well-meaning person. I&#039;m not at all sure this can be said about today&#039;s crop of &quot;progressive&quot; nihilists.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But Lisa, for all her irritating characterists, is basically a nice and well-meaning person. I&#8217;m not at all sure this can be said about today&#8217;s crop of &#8220;progressive&#8221; nihilists.</p>
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		<title>By: LotharBot</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/3176.html/comment-page-1#comment-12674</link>
		<dc:creator>LotharBot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 May 2005 04:32:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/003176.php#comment-12674</guid>
		<description>And here I thought the message of the Simpsons was &quot;people are funny!&quot;

But yes, Lisa does represent the post-modernist leftist mindset of &quot;do good, or at least do the thing you think is good based on your naive assumptions&quot;...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And here I thought the message of the Simpsons was &#8220;people are funny!&#8221;</p>
<p>But yes, Lisa does represent the post-modernist leftist mindset of &#8220;do good, or at least do the thing you think is good based on your naive assumptions&#8221;&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Mitch</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/3176.html/comment-page-1#comment-12673</link>
		<dc:creator>Mitch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 May 2005 02:52:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/003176.php#comment-12673</guid>
		<description>Shannon &#8211; don&#039;t forget that Lisa&#039;s plans and pronouncements always end in disaster and tears.  The message in the Simpsons, if there is one, is that we are all losers and only love redeems us.  The Simpsons are no more liberal on Lisa&#039;s account than they are evangelical on Ned Flanders&#039; account.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shannon &ndash; don&#8217;t forget that Lisa&#8217;s plans and pronouncements always end in disaster and tears.  The message in the Simpsons, if there is one, is that we are all losers and only love redeems us.  The Simpsons are no more liberal on Lisa&#8217;s account than they are evangelical on Ned Flanders&#8217; account.</p>
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		<title>By: laurence haughton</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/3176.html/comment-page-1#comment-12672</link>
		<dc:creator>laurence haughton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 May 2005 18:16:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/003176.php#comment-12672</guid>
		<description>My favorite Lisa moment is in the episode &quot;The Class Struggle in Springfield.&quot;  
(# 142- 2/04/96- Marge gets an expensive &quot;new&quot; dress at the outlet mall. While wearing it she meets a former schoolmate who invites her and the family to the country club.)  
Lisa is angered by class injustice when sees Kent Brockman&#039;s daughter berate a waiter for bringing her a baloney sandwich. (She insists she asked for &quot;abalone.&quot;) 
But Lisa&#039;s indignation evaporates as she sees a man riding a pony.  Later when she herself is riding that pony Lisa (the people&#039;s champion) shouts to her mother &quot;Look Mom, I found something more fun than complaining.&quot;  
Is that post modernist?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My favorite Lisa moment is in the episode &#8220;The Class Struggle in Springfield.&#8221;<br />
(# 142- 2/04/96- Marge gets an expensive &#8220;new&#8221; dress at the outlet mall. While wearing it she meets a former schoolmate who invites her and the family to the country club.)<br />
Lisa is angered by class injustice when sees Kent Brockman&#8217;s daughter berate a waiter for bringing her a baloney sandwich. (She insists she asked for &#8220;abalone.&#8221;)<br />
But Lisa&#8217;s indignation evaporates as she sees a man riding a pony.  Later when she herself is riding that pony Lisa (the people&#8217;s champion) shouts to her mother &#8220;Look Mom, I found something more fun than complaining.&#8221;<br />
Is that post modernist?</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/3176.html/comment-page-1#comment-12671</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 May 2005 14:09:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/003176.php#comment-12671</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s not just you Lotharbot,  Shannon&#039;s post is inside the &quot;front cover&quot; only it seems.

My favorite Simpson&#039;s episode is the &quot;Tomacco&quot; one.  Homer blends Tobacco with Tomatos and gets a new crop!  All&#039;s well until the local cows get into the field and get addicted.  I forget if Lisa played the role of the anti-GM hippy on that one or not.

I&#039;m a GM-technology supporter, but I still loved it!
-Steve</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s not just you Lotharbot,  Shannon&#8217;s post is inside the &#8220;front cover&#8221; only it seems.</p>
<p>My favorite Simpson&#8217;s episode is the &#8220;Tomacco&#8221; one.  Homer blends Tobacco with Tomatos and gets a new crop!  All&#8217;s well until the local cows get into the field and get addicted.  I forget if Lisa played the role of the anti-GM hippy on that one or not.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m a GM-technology supporter, but I still loved it!<br />
-Steve</p>
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		<title>By: LotharBot</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/3176.html/comment-page-1#comment-12670</link>
		<dc:creator>LotharBot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 May 2005 03:14:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/003176.php#comment-12670</guid>
		<description>Is it just me, or does this not show up on the main page?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is it just me, or does this not show up on the main page?</p>
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		<title>By: Ginny</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/3176.html/comment-page-1#comment-12669</link>
		<dc:creator>Ginny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 May 2005 22:08:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/003176.php#comment-12669</guid>
		<description>Shannon,

Thanks.

Wonderfully perceptive (in the broad sense - I&#039;ve yet to see one Simpson episode so I guess I&#039;m culturally illiterate).  You&#039;ve nailed that kind of &quot;nanny state&quot; approach.

The essense of post-modernism seems to be a refusal to submerge the ego, to let others be who they are.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shannon,</p>
<p>Thanks.</p>
<p>Wonderfully perceptive (in the broad sense &#8211; I&#8217;ve yet to see one Simpson episode so I guess I&#8217;m culturally illiterate).  You&#8217;ve nailed that kind of &#8220;nanny state&#8221; approach.</p>
<p>The essense of post-modernism seems to be a refusal to submerge the ego, to let others be who they are.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/3176.html/comment-page-1#comment-12668</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 May 2005 22:01:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/003176.php#comment-12668</guid>
		<description>If that is post-modernism, then I confess I have no idea what post-modernism is (yet again)... care to inform me what definition you&#039;re using here?  Thanks, Steve.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If that is post-modernism, then I confess I have no idea what post-modernism is (yet again)&#8230; care to inform me what definition you&#8217;re using here?  Thanks, Steve.</p>
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		<title>By: pst314</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/3176.html/comment-page-1#comment-12667</link>
		<dc:creator>pst314</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 May 2005 20:43:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/003176.php#comment-12667</guid>
		<description>&quot;...large numbers of very bright people in control of major institution have what is essentially a fascistic view of the attainment and use of power.&quot;

This reminds me of the leftists I&#039;ve met who argue that all citizens are legitimate targets of terrorism, because if they had &#039;properly&#039; exercised their responsibilities as citizens of a democracy, then the government and society would not have done anything to provoke the terrorists.  Oy.

Very good essay.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;&#8230;large numbers of very bright people in control of major institution have what is essentially a fascistic view of the attainment and use of power.&#8221;</p>
<p>This reminds me of the leftists I&#8217;ve met who argue that all citizens are legitimate targets of terrorism, because if they had &#8216;properly&#8217; exercised their responsibilities as citizens of a democracy, then the government and society would not have done anything to provoke the terrorists.  Oy.</p>
<p>Very good essay.</p>
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