Someday people will realize that freedom works better than most regulation.

I do not think a Wall is the way to go. Alas, given the growing threat of terrorism and the easier availability of WMD a National ID system is necessary. We can couble it together from existing IDs. Anyone who cannot biometrically prove they are a citzen or here legally cannot get hired, cannot get social services, cannot go to school, and gets deported within 72 hours.

I think the cost of such a Federated Database with security controls is on the order of three or four billion dollars. The benefits are much larger.

There are civil liberties concerns, but basically I think we are going back to small town America. We are all going to know a lot of each other’s business. People have no right no anonimity. If we all see and use the records they become more like the Public road system, rather then a central government threat to liberty (I think).

Screw that, require proof of citizenship before handing out social services. Those that don’t like that deal can stay home, and save us the trouble of keeping them out.

Those that are just fine with that deal, and want a chance to pull their own weight in a free society? Those are the ones we want, as many of them as we can attract. They’re the ones that’ll be an asset.

Americans will do the jobs if you offer them $20/hour or so and benefits. If you can’t grow tomatoes for a profit here under those conditions, give it up, sell the land, start a new endeavor or do something else.

Tough, I know, but the alternative is the illegal immigration and concomitant degradation of US society.

It’s analogous to the Wal-Mart haters dilema isn’t it? That is, the incorrect argument that the big box should shut down because it may put a few smaller concerns out of business. It may do that, but in the process it legitamately raises the standard of living for whole communities.

About disease and repercussions on our health care system resulting from illegal aliens (not legal immigrants):

Illegal Aliens and American Medicine
Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons
http://www.jpands.org/vol10no1/cosman.pdf

I’d have no problem creating a massive Marshall Plan for Mexico constituting billions of dollars in aid that would focus on cleaning up corruption and building basic infrastructure (clean water, decent restroom and bathing facilities, roads, etc) in the poorest areas; however, the situation will not improve in Mexico until the US puts pressure on Mexico to reform. The best way to do this is to cut off the illegal immigration safety valve.

I really don’t understand your attitude, Sulaiman. Do you expect us to take in all the world’s poor? Or all Mexico’s poor? Are we not living up to our ideals by not immediately importing several billion poor people? How is this country supposed to function if we taken in 30 million poverty stricken illiterate non-English speakers? The public schools can barely teach English-speaking Americans to read. 50 million? How about 100 million? You clearly feel a limit is immoral. I feel not having limits is suicidal. You seem to be unwilling to countenance the negative effects of the policy you desire.

“Those “idealistic” words above are carved on the foot of the Statue of Liberty in NY.”
No way. I didn’t know that. You still haven’t even bothered to contest any of the arguments I made in earlier postings. I certainly hope you don’t lose your health insurance because your employer can no longer afford it due to the massive numbers of illegal uninsured taxing the system to death. Or you don’t live in a part of California where the emergency rooms went out of business due to illegal immigration.

“Your ancestors, having experienced something akin to what current immigrants have, would probably empathize with them more – you just seem to view ‘immigrants’ as a problem – they are also people, who like your ancestors are aiming and working towards a better life.”

Have you read my previous posts in this thread? Apparently not, because you wouldn’t be able to make such an ignorant statement otherwise.

“The American immigration system is broken, but don’t blame the immigrants for that.”

The American criminal justice system is broken, but don’t blame the criminals for that. Of course, the criminals aren’t solely to blame, but they are part of the problem. Afterall, there would be no crime without criminals.

pj, I mentioned the separatism movement earlier, but no one commented on it. Gee. It’s real smart to allow millions of people to move into an area of the US that they feel really belongs to their own neighboring country. Especially since they’re taught from an early age that the Americans stole that land. The recent Los Angeles, Mexico billboard flap, anyone?

I resent that remark, they did not sacrifice everything to make dangerous 6-8 week crossings via the Atlantic or Pacific.

They don’t have to cut the ties. You cannot assimilate as well if you can go home in a few hours. No bilingual classes, English immersion only.

And no dual citizenship.

Besides, a lot of them aren’t yearning to be free, they want to work and leave.

And we used to not let people in w/infectious diseases, yet we’re starting to see diseases we haven’t in years.

I’ve been wondering lately since Lady Liberty was a gift from our “historic friend and ally” if we really haven’t been hosed – they certainly didn’t want the great unwashed at their doors, hey, let’s send them to America!

Your ancestors, having experienced something akin to what current immigrants have, would probably empathize with them more – you just seem to view ‘immigrants’ as a problem – they are also people, who like your ancestors are aiming and working towards a better life.

The American immigration system is broken, but don’t blame the immigrants for that.

“Give the uneducated parents a choice of schooling for their kids and I can assure you that the vast majority will choose English – the American version – over Spanish.”

No way can anyone assure me of this when I see the opposite everyday.

About doing the jobs Americans won’t do… in those areas of the country where there are not yet an overwhelming number of illegal aliens, Ameicans are doing those jobs.

“Give the uneducated parents a choice of schooling for their kids and I can assure you that the vast majority will choose English – the American version – over Spanish.”

No way can anyone assure me of this when I see the opposite everyday.

About doing the jobs Americans won’t do… in those areas of the country where there are not yet an overwhelming number of illegal aliens, Ameicans are doing those jobs.

One point that has not been made in this discussion is that in a market economy, people are an asset and not a liability. Only in a socialist society, people are seen as mouths to be fed.

Ginny – couldn’t agree with you more. We have to look at Europe and its failure with multiculturalism.. In slums of Kabul (my ancestoral home) people are learning English in order to get a piece of action in this globalized economy. Our misguided liberal friends in the US think it is a better idea for some immigrants – particularly those from Latin America – to study in their native language. Give the uneducated parents a choice of schooling for their kids and I can assure you that the vast majority will choose English – the American version – over Spanish. We might have many more Miguel Stradas or Alberto Gonzales among their ranks.

Nice try, won’t work. We can’t wall the world out. History is full of examples. They’ll go around, under, over…unless, of course, you also propose we mine the Gulf, mine the border, install machine gun towers, razor wire, dogs, etc. Be just like living in East Berlin. All we’ll be lacking is the searchlights and random searches by the Ministry of State Security for ID: “Where are your papers? Hurry up. I haven’t got all day swine!”

A better long-term plan is to tackle the economic and political problems in Mexico and Central America. We’re far better off with neighbors that are free and prosperous than poor and hostile.

This “like to kick the very ladder which we (our ancestors climbed” stuff is patently ludicrous. My ancestors would never have said to me that I should tolerate admitting millions of people whose strain on our resources would make it difficult to afford health care or a decent education for my kids. Why should I kick the ladder out from under myself? They came here to improve their lives and their children’s lives, why would they want me to do something to harm the very thing they sacrificed for? Talk about a slap to your ancestors.

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name Mother of Exiles.
From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
“”Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!”” cries she
With silent lips. “Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”