Admin’s note to self: Next time check weird comments for matching IP addresses.

Lincoln pushed through legislation to build the railroads that connect this country; his vision was intelligent and far-seeing and this was partially because he was a lawyer for the railroad. He was a complex man. His emphasis upon commerce might still seem a Republican value; he was optimistic about technology. Also his references to a Providential order (and the providential punishment of a bloody civil war to the country guilty of allowing slavery) uses terms that trip more quickly from a modern Republican’s tongue than a Democrat’s.

The Republican party came into being to fight slavery. When I was young there was an African-American senator; he was a Republican. You will certainly find more KKK members in the Democratic party.

Your government class(es?) argue that the parties reversed their stands because the assumption was that Civil Rights and the equality for which my teachers marched (in Selma for instance) and the legislation that Mr. Hiteshew describes are carried on in spirit in affirmative action, set asides, and such policies as Title IX, gay marriage, and abortion. Emphasis on state’s rights, too, appears to have changed. This is not an unreasonable argument but I suspect in many ways the policies of the Democratic party at the turn of the century and during the depression are more in line with the Utopian policies and implied statism of modern Democrats, while the vision of the reformists resembles Republican positions.

And as for the Confederate flag – this is not a party division but a geographic one; it was a symbol in the south when it was solidly Democratic. This is not a symbol that was honored in any way in the midwest (and in the state that was often called the most Republican in the union and now the reddest). Assuming most (and only) Republicans fly it is ahistorical.

Frankly, I always found Joan Baez singing “The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down” lovely but clearly she bought into a sentimental nostalgia, which seemed worse when sung by a self-righteous leftist. That popularity arises from an affection for lost causes, for some kind of gracious, traditional & agrarian past that some people find embodied in the Confederate flag. And the values and even prejudices of that culture have been picked up by the anti-globalization, Sierra Club luddites of today. (Accompanying these often positive values then and today is paternalism and snti-semitism.) That people feel that without thinking may be irritating & not very bright but it doesn’t make them evil (and clearly it doesn’t make them all Republican).

Jen’s good humored discussion and Jonathan’s less honorable approach seem to arise without enough context. By the way, many conservative Republicans are at least as opposed to laws limiting flag burning as are Democrats.

Burning the U.S. flag and flying the rebel flag are two ways of saying the same thing yet republicans will never try to ban confederate flag flying because all of them are confederates!

If you make absurd statements and insult people you shouldn’t be surprised if you get a harsh response. Now you want to change the subject with Mike and make nice with another commenter. Is this how you usually behave in discussions?

If you want to comment on our blog, please avoid making personal attacks. And if you start an argument, have the courtesy not to change the subject if someone who disagrees with you responds.

First, if you’re going to insult people in capital letters, at least get the spelling right. Otherwise, it makes you appear as an even bigger moron than you obviously are.

Also, before you spout forth howlers, like “republicans will never try to ban confederate flag flying because all of them are confederates!”, You might want to check the politcal affiliation of a minor historical figure named Abraham Lincoln. Here’s what I found with a moment of Googling:

As President, he built the Republican Party into a strong national organization. Further, he rallied most of the northern Democrats to the Union cause. On January 1, 1863, he issued the Emancipation Proclamation that declared forever free those slaves within the Confederacy.

Finally, you must not be aware that it was Republican Senators and Reps that got the Civil Rights and Voting Rights Acts of 1964 & 1965 passed:

The Civil Rights Act of 1964 came to a vote after a 57-day filibuster engineered by Southern Democrats among them Sen. Al Gore Sr. father of the current Democratic presidential nominee. (Gore refused to vote to end the filibuster despite a personal plea from President Lyndon Johnson.) In the face of serious Democratic opposition, only strong Republican support could end the filibuster and ensure that the bill became law.
When the final congressional vote was tallied, Republican support exceeded Democratic support by a substantial margin. Eighty percent of House Republicans voted for the Civil Rights Act, but only 63 percent of Democrats. Eighty-two percent of Senate Republicans voted yea, while only 69 percent of Democrats did so.
The Voting Rights Act of 1965 played out in a similar fashion. Eighty-five percent of House Republicans voted for the bill, compared with 80 percent of Democrats. In the Senate, the margin was greater: 97 percent of Republicans vs. 74 percent of Democrats.

Maybe YOU are the one in the wrong party after all.

Republicans think that they are some kind of country-defending saints because of the flag burning stink they’ve raised. The truth is that republicans will fight to the death in order to stop the American flag from being burned but almost all of them support flying confederate flags. Now let me ask the public a question, which is more “anti-american” to burn a U.S. flag out of protest or to fly a flag that once stood for treason against the United States Government? Burning the U.S. flag and flying the rebel flag are two ways of saying the same thing yet republicans will never try to ban confederate flag flying because all of them are confederates! Ask me what a real American is and I’ll show you someone burning a rebel flag!!!

No indication in any of these definitions even hint that speech means anything other than the spoken word.

If I was to take a flag, march to a street corner and set it afire in protest, how would anyone know what I was protesting unless I accompanied this act with a verbal discourse (or written pamphlet)?
I assume everyone believes that the written word is a “form” of free speech. But isn’t the written word “Freedom of the Press” as enumerated in the 1st ammendment? Were the founding fathers being redundant by including speech and press in the same breath?
Our flag is recognized as a symbol of freedom. Flag desecration can be better described as a lack of respect. By allowing it we show the world our real value system; one that honors little and respects even less.
I don’t believe we need an ammendment either. If protesters cannot make their point through the written or spoken word, they ought to shut up or go back to school to learn the art of expression!

I can understand people identifying themselves strongly with symbols (Muslims with Korans), so burning a flag does seem patently and unnecesarily offensive.

But I’d have to throw in my lot with demimasque on this one; we’ve got bigger fish to fry (e.g. that eminent domain ruling per Shannon).

I used to make it habit of pestering business to take care of their flags. I even went so far as a “rescue” a couple without permission. Eventually, I just gave up. Flag neglect is just to common.

I would hope that if congress does pass laws to protect the flag (which I don’t think is actually necessary) then I hope they also address the matter of neglect as well.

According to this post by Razib at Gene Expression, it is congressmen sporting high conservative ratings from the American Conservative Union who are voting with Demi on this one.

Perhaps there is a thread of libertarianism left in the GOP after all.
-Steve