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	<title>Comments on: Reports of the economy&#8217;s demise are premature, but not by much.</title>
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	<description>Some Chicago Boyz know each other from student days at the University of Chicago. Others are Chicago boys in spirit. The blog name is also intended as a good-humored gesture of admiration for distinguished Chicago boys including those pictured above.</description>
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		<title>By: Susan Lee</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/33553.html/comment-page-1#comment-416755</link>
		<dc:creator>Susan Lee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Nov 2012 15:18:20 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>1. thanks for the MOST interesting article and thoughts by everyone above!

2. Government will always &quot;suck the air&quot; out of everything - it has no restraint on its power due to our delegating our whole lives (think Obamacare) to government in favor of our supposed security. Gov&#039;t is currently encouraging the breakup of all the DeToquevillian &quot;mediating institutions&quot; (especially, the family) in favor of its own power.  That is why we can&#039;t REALLY distinguish between Republicans or Democrats anymore.

3. Apologies to Nick Bretagna, but we cannot really become a Services economy.  Someone has to &quot;work by the sweat of his brow&quot;, farming, logging, mining,and otherwise creating the wealth that time &amp; rust destroys. I agree there is a major shift coming, but not to services.  We will more likely fall back into a feudal time again, looking to a &quot;strongman&quot; for security (and dinner) as governments overbalance and become incompetent to do their jobs (domestic security and basic infrastructure- think of Detroit...).  Local governments and services will be the first to crumble, since we can all go to our town council meetings and rant about local tax burdens to people who are actually our neighbors.

Susan Lee</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>1. thanks for the MOST interesting article and thoughts by everyone above!</p>
<p>2. Government will always &#8220;suck the air&#8221; out of everything &#8211; it has no restraint on its power due to our delegating our whole lives (think Obamacare) to government in favor of our supposed security. Gov&#8217;t is currently encouraging the breakup of all the DeToquevillian &#8220;mediating institutions&#8221; (especially, the family) in favor of its own power.  That is why we can&#8217;t REALLY distinguish between Republicans or Democrats anymore.</p>
<p>3. Apologies to Nick Bretagna, but we cannot really become a Services economy.  Someone has to &#8220;work by the sweat of his brow&#8221;, farming, logging, mining,and otherwise creating the wealth that time &amp; rust destroys. I agree there is a major shift coming, but not to services.  We will more likely fall back into a feudal time again, looking to a &#8220;strongman&#8221; for security (and dinner) as governments overbalance and become incompetent to do their jobs (domestic security and basic infrastructure- think of Detroit&#8230;).  Local governments and services will be the first to crumble, since we can all go to our town council meetings and rant about local tax burdens to people who are actually our neighbors.</p>
<p>Susan Lee</p>
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		<title>By: renminbi</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/33553.html/comment-page-1#comment-416673</link>
		<dc:creator>renminbi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Nov 2012 00:05:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=33553#comment-416673</guid>
		<description>Any system based on electoral politics eventually goes bad when the elected discover that the public&#039;s rational ignorance gives them cover. They then, along with the bureaucracy,become a nomenklatura contemptuous of the public.They are an entrenched class, a nobility devoid of any noble virtues. The likely end state is something like Argentina or Venezuela, I would think. There may continue to be elections,but they are meaningless window dressing.
         Useful reading-Mancur Olson-The Rise and Decline of Nations
           The Dictator&#039;s Handbook-Bruce Bueno de Mesquita

     There does seem to be one republic which seems to be holding its own. It is a genuine confederation in which most governance is on the local level (the Canton). The Swiss Federation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Any system based on electoral politics eventually goes bad when the elected discover that the public&#8217;s rational ignorance gives them cover. They then, along with the bureaucracy,become a nomenklatura contemptuous of the public.They are an entrenched class, a nobility devoid of any noble virtues. The likely end state is something like Argentina or Venezuela, I would think. There may continue to be elections,but they are meaningless window dressing.<br />
         Useful reading-Mancur Olson-The Rise and Decline of Nations<br />
           The Dictator&#8217;s Handbook-Bruce Bueno de Mesquita</p>
<p>     There does seem to be one republic which seems to be holding its own. It is a genuine confederation in which most governance is on the local level (the Canton). The Swiss Federation.</p>
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		<title>By: Nicholas Bretagna</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/33553.html/comment-page-1#comment-416507</link>
		<dc:creator>Nicholas Bretagna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2012 21:35:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=33553#comment-416507</guid>
		<description>}}}} &lt;i&gt;You have left out the collapse of education and skills. At some point the population simply won’t know *how* to be civilized.&lt;/i&gt;

In the blue states, maybe... Morlocks and Eloi indeed. 

Thing is, Wells had it wrong, the Eloi weren&#039;t the good people, the Morlocks were. :-P</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>}}}} <i>You have left out the collapse of education and skills. At some point the population simply won’t know *how* to be civilized.</i></p>
<p>In the blue states, maybe&#8230; Morlocks and Eloi indeed. </p>
<p>Thing is, Wells had it wrong, the Eloi weren&#8217;t the good people, the Morlocks were. :-P</p>
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		<title>By: chuck</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/33553.html/comment-page-1#comment-416500</link>
		<dc:creator>chuck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2012 20:45:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=33553#comment-416500</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;We are indeed approaching a major cultural and civilizational transition.&lt;/i&gt;

You have left out the collapse of education and skills. At some point the population simply won&#039;t know *how* to be civilized.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>We are indeed approaching a major cultural and civilizational transition.</i></p>
<p>You have left out the collapse of education and skills. At some point the population simply won&#8217;t know *how* to be civilized.</p>
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		<title>By: Nicholas Bretagna</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/33553.html/comment-page-1#comment-416488</link>
		<dc:creator>Nicholas Bretagna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2012 17:49:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=33553#comment-416488</guid>
		<description>We are in the transition state from an &lt;b&gt;Industrial&lt;/b&gt; to an &lt;b&gt;IP and Services Economy&lt;/b&gt;. The differences in internal structure and the overall governing mechanisms between I and IPS Economies are greater than that between the Industrial and the forerunner Agricultural Economies. 

Just as the Feudal Enclaves fell, with their Lords and Ladies, and the Titular Heirarchies of the previous economy, before the Corporate Heads of Industry, so, too, will the Corporate Heads of Industry fall before What Comes Next. The Nations We Know may follow suit.

&quot;We Live In Interesting Times&quot;, I suspect.

What Comes Next? If I knew that, I&#039;d be rich. But it won&#039;t be More Of The Same. It will no doubt bear some of the qualities of the corporation, but it will be an entirely new entity with less of a top-down, hierarchical management structure. It will be smaller, nimbler, much more ad-hoc and networked in its nature. Probably some outgrowth of the LLC is my bet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We are in the transition state from an <b>Industrial</b> to an <b>IP and Services Economy</b>. The differences in internal structure and the overall governing mechanisms between I and IPS Economies are greater than that between the Industrial and the forerunner Agricultural Economies. </p>
<p>Just as the Feudal Enclaves fell, with their Lords and Ladies, and the Titular Heirarchies of the previous economy, before the Corporate Heads of Industry, so, too, will the Corporate Heads of Industry fall before What Comes Next. The Nations We Know may follow suit.</p>
<p>&#8220;We Live In Interesting Times&#8221;, I suspect.</p>
<p>What Comes Next? If I knew that, I&#8217;d be rich. But it won&#8217;t be More Of The Same. It will no doubt bear some of the qualities of the corporation, but it will be an entirely new entity with less of a top-down, hierarchical management structure. It will be smaller, nimbler, much more ad-hoc and networked in its nature. Probably some outgrowth of the LLC is my bet.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Doughty</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/33553.html/comment-page-1#comment-416479</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Doughty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2012 15:17:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=33553#comment-416479</guid>
		<description>Veryretired:

&quot;...centered around the idea that anything was possible if people just wanted it badly enough, no matter what the cost, are soon to collide very brutally with the stark reality that causes have effects...&quot;

Yes, this idea that &quot;there&#039;s always a way&quot; was never sustainable.

Years ago (early 70&#039;s) I had a good friend who had some problems and was seeing a therapist.  One day he told me that he had sold his Austin Healy Sprite and bought a Morgan, a car that both he and I had talked for several years about owning.   I was surprised (shocked really) because this guy had serious money problems.  I asked how he planned to pay for it.  He shrugged and said that his therapist had told him that he &quot;deserved&quot; happiness and that if he wanted it badly enough that he would figure out a way to pay for it.

Needless to say, this ended badly, as will the long delayed reckoning of our country&#039;s financial situation.  I&#039;m not sure when this will happen, but as they say, &quot;when something can&#039;t continue, it won&#039;t&quot;.  The fallout is going to be really ugly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Veryretired:</p>
<p>&#8220;&#8230;centered around the idea that anything was possible if people just wanted it badly enough, no matter what the cost, are soon to collide very brutally with the stark reality that causes have effects&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>Yes, this idea that &#8220;there&#8217;s always a way&#8221; was never sustainable.</p>
<p>Years ago (early 70&#8242;s) I had a good friend who had some problems and was seeing a therapist.  One day he told me that he had sold his Austin Healy Sprite and bought a Morgan, a car that both he and I had talked for several years about owning.   I was surprised (shocked really) because this guy had serious money problems.  I asked how he planned to pay for it.  He shrugged and said that his therapist had told him that he &#8220;deserved&#8221; happiness and that if he wanted it badly enough that he would figure out a way to pay for it.</p>
<p>Needless to say, this ended badly, as will the long delayed reckoning of our country&#8217;s financial situation.  I&#8217;m not sure when this will happen, but as they say, &#8220;when something can&#8217;t continue, it won&#8217;t&#8221;.  The fallout is going to be really ugly.</p>
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		<title>By: tomw</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/33553.html/comment-page-1#comment-416477</link>
		<dc:creator>tomw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2012 14:58:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=33553#comment-416477</guid>
		<description>I just figured it out.  If you &quot;believe&quot; strongly enough, anything is possible.  Mysterious sources of wealth will appear and we&#039;ll all be saved.
 My label for this is:
 &quot;Peter Pan Economics&quot;.
  It works as long as you believe in it...

tom</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just figured it out.  If you &#8220;believe&#8221; strongly enough, anything is possible.  Mysterious sources of wealth will appear and we&#8217;ll all be saved.<br />
 My label for this is:<br />
 &#8220;Peter Pan Economics&#8221;.<br />
  It works as long as you believe in it&#8230;</p>
<p>tom</p>
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		<title>By: setbit</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/33553.html/comment-page-1#comment-416453</link>
		<dc:creator>setbit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2012 08:02:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=33553#comment-416453</guid>
		<description>ErisGuy,

&lt;i&gt;Fear of feminists and homosexuals destroying the family; true then, true now.&lt;/i&gt;

Not exactly.

I&#039;m about as culturally conservative as they come, and even I recognize that feminists and homosexuals as individuals are not a measurable threat to families.  (I&#039;ve seen a few self-proclaimed feminists destroy their &lt;i&gt;own&lt;/i&gt; families, but I presume that&#039;s not what you meant.)

The threat to the family comes from political power, coupled with a desire to &quot;enlighten&quot; those of us who see things differently, under threat of criminal prosecution or worse.

Currently, the tools to ruin families rest mostly in the hands of those who claim to speak for women or homosexuals, but I&#039;m only slightly less frightened when people &lt;i&gt;I agree with&lt;/i&gt; start talking about the government &quot;encouraging&quot; family values.

If cultural conservatives possessed anywhere near as much power and political will as they are portrayed as having, then the Left would be at least partially justified in their fears of us big bad White Christian boogey-men.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ErisGuy,</p>
<p><i>Fear of feminists and homosexuals destroying the family; true then, true now.</i></p>
<p>Not exactly.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m about as culturally conservative as they come, and even I recognize that feminists and homosexuals as individuals are not a measurable threat to families.  (I&#8217;ve seen a few self-proclaimed feminists destroy their <i>own</i> families, but I presume that&#8217;s not what you meant.)</p>
<p>The threat to the family comes from political power, coupled with a desire to &#8220;enlighten&#8221; those of us who see things differently, under threat of criminal prosecution or worse.</p>
<p>Currently, the tools to ruin families rest mostly in the hands of those who claim to speak for women or homosexuals, but I&#8217;m only slightly less frightened when people <i>I agree with</i> start talking about the government &#8220;encouraging&#8221; family values.</p>
<p>If cultural conservatives possessed anywhere near as much power and political will as they are portrayed as having, then the Left would be at least partially justified in their fears of us big bad White Christian boogey-men.</p>
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		<title>By: veryretired</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/33553.html/comment-page-1#comment-416439</link>
		<dc:creator>veryretired</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2012 02:03:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=33553#comment-416439</guid>
		<description>We are indeed approaching a major cultural and civilizational transition. The blue social model, of ever increasing state power, revenue transfers, and bureaucratic management of every aspect of society, is failing as bankruptcy approaches.

The delusions of the collectivist mentality, centered around the idea that anything was possible if people just wanted it badly enough, no matter what the cost, are soon to collide very brutally with the stark reality that causes have effects, and that you can&#039;t endlessly spend money that doesn&#039;t have any meaningful real world value.

In my lifetime, I&#039;ve seen the dollar decrease in value to the current 6 cents or so from the gold standard dollar I grew up using.

Both parties have been complicit in this ongoing shipwreck, and it&#039;s just as well that the current regime will have to deal with the lunacy its own progressive ideology has brought upon it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We are indeed approaching a major cultural and civilizational transition. The blue social model, of ever increasing state power, revenue transfers, and bureaucratic management of every aspect of society, is failing as bankruptcy approaches.</p>
<p>The delusions of the collectivist mentality, centered around the idea that anything was possible if people just wanted it badly enough, no matter what the cost, are soon to collide very brutally with the stark reality that causes have effects, and that you can&#8217;t endlessly spend money that doesn&#8217;t have any meaningful real world value.</p>
<p>In my lifetime, I&#8217;ve seen the dollar decrease in value to the current 6 cents or so from the gold standard dollar I grew up using.</p>
<p>Both parties have been complicit in this ongoing shipwreck, and it&#8217;s just as well that the current regime will have to deal with the lunacy its own progressive ideology has brought upon it.</p>
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		<title>By: ErisGuy</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/33553.html/comment-page-1#comment-416438</link>
		<dc:creator>ErisGuy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2012 01:54:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=33553#comment-416438</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;The ideas that Republicans championed in the last election could have easily been heard at a segregated lunch counter in the ’50s.&lt;/i&gt;

Let&#039;s revisit this lunch counter, shall we? At that lunch counter are the followers of Wallace, Fabus, Byrd, and Conner. Party affiliation: Democrat, Democrat, Democrat, Democrat. 

Fear of socialists betraying America: true then, true now.
Fear of socialized medicine ruining America: true then, true now.
Fear of feminists and homosexuals destroying the family; true then, true now.
Expressions of racism; Democrat then, Democrat now.

I assume this Douthat fellow is another graduate of America&#039;s fine educational system. I suspect he obtained this historical lunch encounter by munching on Castaneda&#039;s magic mushrooms while reading Zinn and Chomsky.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>The ideas that Republicans championed in the last election could have easily been heard at a segregated lunch counter in the ’50s.</i></p>
<p>Let&#8217;s revisit this lunch counter, shall we? At that lunch counter are the followers of Wallace, Fabus, Byrd, and Conner. Party affiliation: Democrat, Democrat, Democrat, Democrat. </p>
<p>Fear of socialists betraying America: true then, true now.<br />
Fear of socialized medicine ruining America: true then, true now.<br />
Fear of feminists and homosexuals destroying the family; true then, true now.<br />
Expressions of racism; Democrat then, Democrat now.</p>
<p>I assume this Douthat fellow is another graduate of America&#8217;s fine educational system. I suspect he obtained this historical lunch encounter by munching on Castaneda&#8217;s magic mushrooms while reading Zinn and Chomsky.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Brandt</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/33553.html/comment-page-1#comment-416437</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Brandt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2012 01:47:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=33553#comment-416437</guid>
		<description>When you have people who have learned that they can &quot;vote their prosperity&quot; (ie, govt checks) and politicians who tenure in office is dependent on getting the votes of these people, The situation does appear dire. 

Of course economic laws respect no party and the country I am afraid will be in for a hard lesson.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When you have people who have learned that they can &#8220;vote their prosperity&#8221; (ie, govt checks) and politicians who tenure in office is dependent on getting the votes of these people, The situation does appear dire. </p>
<p>Of course economic laws respect no party and the country I am afraid will be in for a hard lesson.</p>
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		<title>By: ErisGuy</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/33553.html/comment-page-1#comment-416434</link>
		<dc:creator>ErisGuy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2012 01:23:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=33553#comment-416434</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;I couldn’t detect it over the din of hateful, destructive rhetoric aimed at the majority of ordinary Americans&lt;i&gt;

I assume this a reference to the collected sermons of Obama&#039;s mentor, or the collection of Krugman&#039;s editorials.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I couldn’t detect it over the din of hateful, destructive rhetoric aimed at the majority of ordinary Americans</i><i></p>
<p>I assume this a reference to the collected sermons of Obama&#8217;s mentor, or the collection of Krugman&#8217;s editorials.</i></p>
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		<title>By: Robert Schwartz</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/33553.html/comment-page-1#comment-416427</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Schwartz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Nov 2012 22:54:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=33553#comment-416427</guid>
		<description>Michael: I am only a few years younger than you, but I share your outlook. I am worried sick for my children who are 25 -- 30. The only one I can talk to about it is my youngest who was a mathematics and economics major, and who inherited my cynicism. He saw the light when he read Laurence Kotlikoff&#039;s book &quot;The Coming Generational Storm: What You Need to Know about America&#039;s Economic Future&quot; in Macroeconomics class.

The only silver-lining out of the election is that Romney was too much of a meliorist and even Ryan thinks the existing system can be saved. If they had been elected, tried to fix the broken system, and failed, it would have discredited those of us who supported them out of fear of Obama and hope that they could actually pull it off, but who really believe in Madisonian Constitutionalism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael: I am only a few years younger than you, but I share your outlook. I am worried sick for my children who are 25 &#8212; 30. The only one I can talk to about it is my youngest who was a mathematics and economics major, and who inherited my cynicism. He saw the light when he read Laurence Kotlikoff&#8217;s book &#8220;The Coming Generational Storm: What You Need to Know about America&#8217;s Economic Future&#8221; in Macroeconomics class.</p>
<p>The only silver-lining out of the election is that Romney was too much of a meliorist and even Ryan thinks the existing system can be saved. If they had been elected, tried to fix the broken system, and failed, it would have discredited those of us who supported them out of fear of Obama and hope that they could actually pull it off, but who really believe in Madisonian Constitutionalism.</p>
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		<title>By: PenGun</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/33553.html/comment-page-1#comment-416416</link>
		<dc:creator>PenGun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Nov 2012 22:01:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=33553#comment-416416</guid>
		<description>No need to apologize for seeing the truth. 

  Really it&#039;s too late now but there will be a time when this is resolved. The  exceptionalism thing has to die though.

 Never let the fox run the hen house.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No need to apologize for seeing the truth. </p>
<p>  Really it&#8217;s too late now but there will be a time when this is resolved. The  exceptionalism thing has to die though.</p>
<p> Never let the fox run the hen house.</p>
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