I have learned a lot from others on this list – some of you have encyclopedic minds – from Lex and Adm King to Sgt Mom & Texas history to Dr Kennedy on subjects ranging from medicine to…Arafat.

And others not mentioned….

chicagoboyz is a pretty cool place to stop and chat…

Now Joe is actually trying to reason with you and you ban his ass.

Hi ho.

Besides, I thought PenGun was the official Resident Troll. I mean, sometimes he’ll just pop up with a splenetic two-line venom bomb. But — refreshing!!

Bringing Arafat back from Tunisia was the first big mistake.

The Jews are still where they have always been and neighboring rulers still want to kill them. There is no way Jews can make peace except by mass suicide. Anyone who argues differently ignores history’s #1 lesson.

There are many Palestinians who simply want to start a business and raise a family. There is a ruling class that simply wants to kill jews.

Allende invited the communist ruling class of Chile to a meeting in a football stadium. Pinochet showed up and killed them all. Now, in Chile, the communist ruling class is dead and the peasants start businesses and feed their children. This is the Pinochet path to solving the Palestinian problem.

It seems to me, and the theory is supported by some reading I have done, that early Israel had a sort of “superiority complex” that led many Jews to emphasize farming and manual labor. Some of this was necessity as the land of Israel has a harsh climate and lacks water. Some of this was also a determination to overcome the legend that Jews were only interested in money and trade and lacked the skills of the working classes. The legend grew from restrictive laws of antiquity that barred Jews from land ownership and most trades except money lending.

With time, the original psychology of Israel has shifted from the complex of the founders and the talents of the Israelis have been combined with more practical economic policies to bring prosperity. There is still quite a bit of socialism but the free market is growing. American blacks are still held in thrall by the complex of inferiority created by slavery and the Jim Crow era. The Civil Rights era led to a period of rage and resentment that has not yet faded and which continues to hold back American blacks. It does not affect those foreign born from Africa and even descendants of slaves who grew up in the West Indies. It is unique to American blacks.

I see this over and over in medical students, and grad students. Some of it is distorted by affirmative action that places black students in situations that they are not prepared for. It also stigmatizes those who may be prepared but who doubt it. It is not a matter of economics because I have seen foreign born black students who are so poor a car breakdown is a catastrophe but they still made good grades.

I watched a leader of CORE, the civil rights organization, describe the immorality of racialist policies of the Democratic Party. Of course, it was on Fox News as he would get no time on another network. If I were a Democratic Party leader, I would live in fear of the black epiphany about affirmative action and welfare but they are not concerned as they are just as much prisoners of their ideology as American blacks are.

Or 3) a greater Israel-Palestine, with equal rights for all, in which the Jews would be a minority of the electorate. Equal rights for all- such as Hamas practices in Gaza?

JC leaves out the the preferred Arab choice. See the Hamas covenant etc.
4) Drive the Effing Joos into the sea.

The first assertion is of “insane, extremist” Likud policies. But the Likud is the dominant partner in a governing coalition that includes Labor. To gain this position the Likud had to win a larger percentage of total votes than any other party, so it is by definition mainstream rather than extremist. Moreover, even if Likud’s policies were somehow unrepresentative and unpopular they would be moderated by its Labor coalition partners; otherwise there would eventually be new elections and Likud would lose its dominant role. Yet Likud is expected to increase its share of votes in the coming elections. Finally, the current govt is one of the longest-lived coalitions in Israeli history. When American and European leftists attack “the Likud” they are really attacking the Israeli coalition govt and by extension the preferences of the majority of Israelis. Since it is Israelis, not Americans or Europeans, who pay in blood for bad policies, the fact that they have shifted their preferences to anti-accommodationist parties since the debacles of 1993-2005 should be treated with respect rather than dismissal (or hectoring from Hillary).

The second assertion, in this case implied, is that Israel is responsible for the lack of progress toward a peace deal with the Palestinians. This is starkly false. Israel offered substantial territorial concessions during Oslo, in 1998-2000, withdrew from Lebanon, withdrew from Gaza, etc. The Palestinian response has been 1) refusal to accept generous Israeli territorial offers, 2) abrogation of past agreements and 3) war. The current Palestinian leadership is divided between Hamas and the PA. Hamas is currently at war with Israel and continues to declare that the destruction of Israel is its goal. The PA has been refusing to negotiate for the past several years. Israel is strong militarily and thriving economically. Why should it do anything other than defend itself as necessary and wait for the Palestinians to come to their senses?

Israel needs to reduce its reliance on the USA. Closer ties to Russia and China would be smart. Having the US as the only option unwise. The Chinese and Russians are notably short on empathy for terrorists, and would spare the Israelis and the world Mrs. Clinton’s tedious drivel.

“I suppose the most tedious aspect of your comments, Joe, is your tendency to express surprise and dismay bordering on outrage at anything contrary to your thinking,”

That is how I define a troll. They contribute nothing as their comments are devoid of links and the tone is so offensive that no one is inclined to read the comment. The purpose is to draw attention.

PenGun is a little different. Intractable ignorance can seem similar to the ravings of a troll.

I suppose the most tedious aspect of your comments, Joe, is your tendency to express surprise and dismay bordering on outrage at anything contrary to your thinking, which whatever the subject you seem to regard as plain and obvious common sense no reasonable person could much diverge from. Like you’ve stumbled across some stupefying, unexpected heresy against orthodoxy.

And I don’t even have anything to say about this particular issue. Just Sayin’, as they say.

“Suckas”?? What is that supposed to mean? The term usually refers to people who are naive and are misled. Tell us seriously Jonathen, do you imagine that the people who voted for Obama were under some illusion that he, or Hillary, were fervent supporters of the insane, extremist Likud policy line? Such that now they are having that illusion burst?

I can’t believe, for one moment, that you honestly believe that.

Do you really need to be reminded of the obvious here? That the majority of American Jews, and the vast majority of decent, rational people find the Likud party position to be, at best, insanely self-destructive for Israel? And that by threatening to complete the encirclement of East Jerusalem, that Netanyahu is dooming Israel to one of the three very bad outcomes available?

It seems unarguable now that the Likud has totally opposed to any coherent, viable Palestinian state from ever arising. Which leaves three possibilities. Perhaps it would be helpful, Jonathan, if you told us which of these three you are hoping for, so that we could understand where you are coming from with your comments.

Shall it be 1) eradication of the Palestinian population in the occupied territories through genocide or ethnic cleansing, so that a secure “greater Israel” can fill all the land between the river and the sea?

Or 2) a greater Israel that leaves the Palestinian population in place but forces them to accept, permanently, a second-class citizenship – without the right to have an equal voice in government.

Or 3) a greater Israel-Palestine, with equal rights for all, in which the Jews would be a minority of the electorate.

What is your vision Jonathan? How does this stupid little tantrum from Netanyahu fit into the vision that you support?

The UN, the US, and the Europeans (through the EU and otherwise) send gigadollars to the “Palestinians” every year. Some of it goes directly to ordinary “Palestinians” from UNRWA (United Nations Relief and Works Agency), the only UN agency dedicated to a single group of people. The rest of it of it goes to the “Palestinian Authority” (Arafat’s gang) which uses it to “provide security” (pay armed thugs to kill Jews and any “Palestinians” who get out of line) and pay other “Palestinians” for other “services” (i.e. sitting in coffee shops and drinking coffee).

Until that gusher of money is cut off, the “Palestinians” will never make peace.