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	<title>Comments on: A Lynching in Wyoming</title>
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	<description>Some Chicago Boyz know each other from student days at the University of Chicago. Others are Chicago boys in spirit. The blog name is also intended as a good-humored gesture of admiration for distinguished Chicago boys including those pictured above.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 24 May 2013 16:09:56 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Richard Torre</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/34415.html/comment-page-1#comment-433127</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Torre</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jan 2013 22:16:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=34415#comment-433127</guid>
		<description>A minor point of definition, but for me not: The loose use of &quot;lynch&quot; to be synonymous homicide by hanging.  

&lt;i&gt;Black&#039;s&lt;/i&gt; makes the distinction citing W.Va. case law and an Ohio statue: 
&lt;i&gt;A term descriptive of the action of unofficial persons, organized bands, or mobs charged who seize persons charged with or suspected of crimes, or take them out of the custody of the law, and inflict summary punishment upon them without legal trial,and without a warrant ot authority of law.&lt;/i&gt;

My scan of facts of the Wyoming murders did not notice suspected &quot;crime&quot; or taking form lawful authority. So, I believe it was simply homicide by hanging, not a lynching.

_______

&lt;i&gt;Heaven&#039;s Gate&lt;/i&gt; One of my favorite films, as I don&#039;t judge by box office and critical receipts.  &lt;i&gt;&quot;Tutti gusti son gusti, ma mei gusti son giusti.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;  ; )

The release was shortened in the U.S by the poor reviews, but I happened to viewed in London in October &#039;83, where it was well-received.  

The cost-overruns ran up and down &quot;Michael Cimmino &amp; Co&#039;s&quot; noses, and racked-up enormous, costly &quot;golden time&quot; - but beautifully shot scenes.  

There&#039;s a book on the spendthrift production: http://www.amazon.com/Final-Cut-Making-Heavens-Artists/dp/1557043744</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A minor point of definition, but for me not: The loose use of &#8220;lynch&#8221; to be synonymous homicide by hanging.  </p>
<p><i>Black&#8217;s</i> makes the distinction citing W.Va. case law and an Ohio statue:<br />
<i>A term descriptive of the action of unofficial persons, organized bands, or mobs charged who seize persons charged with or suspected of crimes, or take them out of the custody of the law, and inflict summary punishment upon them without legal trial,and without a warrant ot authority of law.</i></p>
<p>My scan of facts of the Wyoming murders did not notice suspected &#8220;crime&#8221; or taking form lawful authority. So, I believe it was simply homicide by hanging, not a lynching.</p>
<p>_______</p>
<p><i>Heaven&#8217;s Gate</i> One of my favorite films, as I don&#8217;t judge by box office and critical receipts.  <i>&#8220;Tutti gusti son gusti, ma mei gusti son giusti.&#8221;</i>  ; )</p>
<p>The release was shortened in the U.S by the poor reviews, but I happened to viewed in London in October &#8217;83, where it was well-received.  </p>
<p>The cost-overruns ran up and down &#8220;Michael Cimmino &amp; Co&#8217;s&#8221; noses, and racked-up enormous, costly &#8220;golden time&#8221; &#8211; but beautifully shot scenes.  </p>
<p>There&#8217;s a book on the spendthrift production: <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Final-Cut-Making-Heavens-Artists/dp/1557043744" rel="nofollow">http://www.amazon.com/Final-Cut-Making-Heavens-Artists/dp/1557043744</a></p>
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		<title>By: IGotBupkis, Legally Defined Cyberbully in All 57 States and Certifiable Movie Factologist</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/34415.html/comment-page-1#comment-430822</link>
		<dc:creator>IGotBupkis, Legally Defined Cyberbully in All 57 States and Certifiable Movie Factologist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jan 2013 08:14:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=34415#comment-430822</guid>
		<description>Mike, here&#039;s a few of them. Probably not the era you&#039;re looking for:
http://manybooks.net/collections/Argosy.php

Here, too. Look further down for them:
http://archive.org/search.php?query=Argosy%20Magazine%20AND%20mediatype%3Atexts
Not sure if any extend into the era you&#039;d remember, those are likely still under copyright and hence some idiot is likely making them unavailable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike, here&#8217;s a few of them. Probably not the era you&#8217;re looking for:<br />
<a href="http://manybooks.net/collections/Argosy.php" rel="nofollow">http://manybooks.net/collections/Argosy.php</a></p>
<p>Here, too. Look further down for them:<br />
<a href="http://archive.org/search.php?query=Argosy%20Magazine%20AND%20mediatype%3Atexts" rel="nofollow">http://archive.org/search.php?query=Argosy%20Magazine%20AND%20mediatype%3Atexts</a><br />
Not sure if any extend into the era you&#8217;d remember, those are likely still under copyright and hence some idiot is likely making them unavailable.</p>
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		<title>By: IGotBupkis, Legally Defined Cyberbully in All 57 States and Certifiable Movie Factologist</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/34415.html/comment-page-1#comment-430819</link>
		<dc:creator>IGotBupkis, Legally Defined Cyberbully in All 57 States and Certifiable Movie Factologist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jan 2013 08:03:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=34415#comment-430819</guid>
		<description>}}} &quot;including in the movie Heaven’s Gate, the mega-flopperoo retelling of the Johnson County War.&quot;

LOL, a mega-flopperoo is an understatement. It brought down a major studio, United Artists, almost by itself. Costing $44m to make, it was not only a critical failure but managed to bring in only $3m at the box office. &quot;Ouch&quot;.

These seem like small numbers today, but in 1980 they were big time movie numbers. For comparison, 1977&#039;s Star Wars, itself considered a &quot;big blockbuster&quot; film, cost 1/4th of that at $11m (and has since brought in over $775m).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>}}} &#8220;including in the movie Heaven’s Gate, the mega-flopperoo retelling of the Johnson County War.&#8221;</p>
<p>LOL, a mega-flopperoo is an understatement. It brought down a major studio, United Artists, almost by itself. Costing $44m to make, it was not only a critical failure but managed to bring in only $3m at the box office. &#8220;Ouch&#8221;.</p>
<p>These seem like small numbers today, but in 1980 they were big time movie numbers. For comparison, 1977&#8242;s Star Wars, itself considered a &#8220;big blockbuster&#8221; film, cost 1/4th of that at $11m (and has since brought in over $775m).</p>
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		<title>By: Ross</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/34415.html/comment-page-1#comment-429934</link>
		<dc:creator>Ross</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jan 2013 23:17:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=34415#comment-429934</guid>
		<description>There is definately a great deal to learn about this subject.
I really like all the points you&#039;ve made.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is definately a great deal to learn about this subject.<br />
I really like all the points you&#8217;ve made.</p>
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		<title>By: Sgt. Mom</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/34415.html/comment-page-1#comment-429739</link>
		<dc:creator>Sgt. Mom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jan 2013 13:54:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=34415#comment-429739</guid>
		<description>Good morning, guys - AVI, it looks from the book as only one of the six ranchers remained in the immediate area - the book says nothing about any embarassment to the descendents. Four sold their properties and returned whence they came within a few years. The man who was the chief instigator (who wanted the land that Watson and Averell were homesteading on)bought another property in California and split his time between the two. He seems to have felt considerable displeasure from his immediate neighbors in Wyoming. They were wealthy and looking to become even wealthier.

As I was reading this, I thought of how Cimino could have made such a totally different movie; he had the poor, downtrodden Eastern European immigrants being persecuted by the very rich, politically and socially well-connected big ranchers, but this (and the Johnson County War were actually a bit more complicated. It was the very rich and powerful using their considerable advantages to kneecap the ambitious and hardworking middle-class settlers and homesteaders ... and then to use their command of certain newspapers to frame their middle-class rivals as outlaws. rustlers and extremists. Gosh, doesn&#039;t that sound familiar?
(Account from American Heritage about the Johnson County War, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.americanheritage.com/content/johnson-country-war&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt; - </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good morning, guys &#8211; AVI, it looks from the book as only one of the six ranchers remained in the immediate area &#8211; the book says nothing about any embarassment to the descendents. Four sold their properties and returned whence they came within a few years. The man who was the chief instigator (who wanted the land that Watson and Averell were homesteading on)bought another property in California and split his time between the two. He seems to have felt considerable displeasure from his immediate neighbors in Wyoming. They were wealthy and looking to become even wealthier.</p>
<p>As I was reading this, I thought of how Cimino could have made such a totally different movie; he had the poor, downtrodden Eastern European immigrants being persecuted by the very rich, politically and socially well-connected big ranchers, but this (and the Johnson County War were actually a bit more complicated. It was the very rich and powerful using their considerable advantages to kneecap the ambitious and hardworking middle-class settlers and homesteaders &#8230; and then to use their command of certain newspapers to frame their middle-class rivals as outlaws. rustlers and extremists. Gosh, doesn&#8217;t that sound familiar?<br />
(Account from American Heritage about the Johnson County War, <a href="http://www.americanheritage.com/content/johnson-country-war" rel="nofollow">here</a> &#8211; </p>
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		<title>By: Bill Brandt</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/34415.html/comment-page-1#comment-429734</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Brandt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jan 2013 13:34:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=34415#comment-429734</guid>
		<description>The story reminds me a bit of Tom Horn - I don&#039;t know how much the movie with Steve McQueen went by as far as truth but again set up by wealthy cattle interests. 

One would hope that those responsible - if facing no justice here, faced it in the afterlife. 

Years ago (1976) - I had a wonderful trip to Wyoming. A friend, avid hunter, took me to the south eastern section, near the Colorado border antelope hunting. It was one of those trips that if anything could have gone wrong it did, but it was so comically out of sync with expectations became an adventure in itself. (as an example his jeep engine blew up over the salt flats and we had to tow it with an ancient Chevy pickup). 

The weather - assured it was &quot;shirtsleeve weather&quot; in Sep - I bought just a jacket and we were greeted with first a deluge and then a blizzard. 

The dirt road we traveled in 15 miles to the camp site became slippery clay, and we had to hike maybe 5 miles to the nearest town to find a pay phone. (I told you this was a long time ago). 

Along the way we stopped at a house owned by an old widow, Mrs Nichols, who invited us inside (hoping we could use her tractor to pull the truck out). 

In the middle of her living room was a well - she had homesteaded there in the early 1900s. 

We did find the pay phone in Savory, WY - a town Tom Horn knew well and hadn&#039;t changed much in the intervening 70 years. 

Rough country, that area.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The story reminds me a bit of Tom Horn &#8211; I don&#8217;t know how much the movie with Steve McQueen went by as far as truth but again set up by wealthy cattle interests. </p>
<p>One would hope that those responsible &#8211; if facing no justice here, faced it in the afterlife. </p>
<p>Years ago (1976) &#8211; I had a wonderful trip to Wyoming. A friend, avid hunter, took me to the south eastern section, near the Colorado border antelope hunting. It was one of those trips that if anything could have gone wrong it did, but it was so comically out of sync with expectations became an adventure in itself. (as an example his jeep engine blew up over the salt flats and we had to tow it with an ancient Chevy pickup). </p>
<p>The weather &#8211; assured it was &#8220;shirtsleeve weather&#8221; in Sep &#8211; I bought just a jacket and we were greeted with first a deluge and then a blizzard. </p>
<p>The dirt road we traveled in 15 miles to the camp site became slippery clay, and we had to hike maybe 5 miles to the nearest town to find a pay phone. (I told you this was a long time ago). </p>
<p>Along the way we stopped at a house owned by an old widow, Mrs Nichols, who invited us inside (hoping we could use her tractor to pull the truck out). </p>
<p>In the middle of her living room was a well &#8211; she had homesteaded there in the early 1900s. </p>
<p>We did find the pay phone in Savory, WY &#8211; a town Tom Horn knew well and hadn&#8217;t changed much in the intervening 70 years. </p>
<p>Rough country, that area.</p>
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		<title>By: Assistant Village Idiot</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/34415.html/comment-page-1#comment-429546</link>
		<dc:creator>Assistant Village Idiot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jan 2013 00:57:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=34415#comment-429546</guid>
		<description>Do the ranchers have descendants who might be given some embarrassment now?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do the ranchers have descendants who might be given some embarrassment now?</p>
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		<title>By: Mike_K</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/34415.html/comment-page-1#comment-429534</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike_K</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jan 2013 00:43:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=34415#comment-429534</guid>
		<description>What that couple needed was &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shane_(film)&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Shane&lt;/a&gt;. I first read that story when it was serialized in Argosy magazine as &quot;Rider from Nowhere,&quot; about 1947, when I was 9. When I saw the movie two years later, I immediately recognized the story. I wish the Argosy magazine stories could be found somewhere on the net. I read that magazine and subscribed from the time I was about 7 or 8.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What that couple needed was <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shane_(film)" rel="nofollow">Shane</a>. I first read that story when it was serialized in Argosy magazine as &#8220;Rider from Nowhere,&#8221; about 1947, when I was 9. When I saw the movie two years later, I immediately recognized the story. I wish the Argosy magazine stories could be found somewhere on the net. I read that magazine and subscribed from the time I was about 7 or 8.</p>
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