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	<title>Comments on: German Muslims are highly unlikely to follow the French example</title>
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	<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/3693.html</link>
	<description>Some Chicago Boyz know each other from student days at the University of Chicago. Others are Chicago boys in spirit. The blog name is also intended as a good-humored gesture of admiration for distinguished Chicago boys including those pictured above.</description>
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		<title>By: Mitch</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/3693.html/comment-page-1#comment-16980</link>
		<dc:creator>Mitch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Nov 2005 17:23:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/003693.php#comment-16980</guid>
		<description>I get the impression that a lot of the violence is opportunistic hell-raising.  &quot;Intifada&quot; is overdoing it.  There are a lot of comparisons to the &#039;60&#039;s riots in the US (Watts, Detroit..) that I think are a better match.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I get the impression that a lot of the violence is opportunistic hell-raising.  &#8220;Intifada&#8221; is overdoing it.  There are a lot of comparisons to the &#8217;60&#8242;s riots in the US (Watts, Detroit..) that I think are a better match.</p>
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		<title>By: Ralf Goergens</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/3693.html/comment-page-1#comment-16979</link>
		<dc:creator>Ralf Goergens</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Nov 2005 11:50:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/003693.php#comment-16979</guid>
		<description>Melchior,

there may be some isolated riots in Germany, too., but the rioters&#039; heart won&#039;t in it like in France. The conditions just aren&#039;t there.

German police also are a lot less provocative and needlessly aggresive as their French counterparts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Melchior,</p>
<p>there may be some isolated riots in Germany, too., but the rioters&#8217; heart won&#8217;t in it like in France. The conditions just aren&#8217;t there.</p>
<p>German police also are a lot less provocative and needlessly aggresive as their French counterparts.</p>
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		<title>By: Helen</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/3693.html/comment-page-1#comment-16978</link>
		<dc:creator>Helen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Nov 2005 17:37:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/003693.php#comment-16978</guid>
		<description>Cars are always being burnt in Brussels. There are far more mini-riots there than is reported with the riot police out in force most week-ends. The problem with most Continental media is that it has been suppressing bad news for so long that reality, when appears, seems even worse than it is. We have been saying for some time that the European model is inherently unstable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cars are always being burnt in Brussels. There are far more mini-riots there than is reported with the riot police out in force most week-ends. The problem with most Continental media is that it has been suppressing bad news for so long that reality, when appears, seems even worse than it is. We have been saying for some time that the European model is inherently unstable.</p>
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		<title>By: Melchior Sternfels von Fuchshaim</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/3693.html/comment-page-1#comment-16977</link>
		<dc:creator>Melchior Sternfels von Fuchshaim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Nov 2005 15:33:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/003693.php#comment-16977</guid>
		<description>The Kurier &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.kurier.at/ausland/1169454.php&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;reports&lt;/a&gt; that cars were also burned in Brussels.  The police deny any similarities to the riots in France (and they may be correct).  No time to translate at the moment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Kurier <a href="http://www.kurier.at/ausland/1169454.php" rel="nofollow">reports</a> that cars were also burned in Brussels.  The police deny any similarities to the riots in France (and they may be correct).  No time to translate at the moment.</p>
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		<title>By: Melchior Sternfels von Fuchshaim</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/3693.html/comment-page-1#comment-16976</link>
		<dc:creator>Melchior Sternfels von Fuchshaim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Nov 2005 15:26:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/003693.php#comment-16976</guid>
		<description>Ralf: you have a point, but I have two questions:

(1) is the more or less forced isolation of the immigrants in France the sole or chief determining factor in the violence there?  If not, then the fact that in Germany the Muslims are isolated by choice doesn&#039;t by itself afford full protection from the violence;
(2) is it possible that the rage in France could start to resonate with the more general alienation that some Muslim immigrants feel in other European countries, even if that alienation arises in large part from voluntary isolation from the rest of society?

I&#039;m not saying that the answers are &#039;no&#039; and &#039;yes&#039; respectively, but one ought to consider the possibility that rage arising out of one set of circumstances could attract to itself various sorts of related but less severe alienations elsewhere.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ralf: you have a point, but I have two questions:</p>
<p>(1) is the more or less forced isolation of the immigrants in France the sole or chief determining factor in the violence there?  If not, then the fact that in Germany the Muslims are isolated by choice doesn&#8217;t by itself afford full protection from the violence;<br />
(2) is it possible that the rage in France could start to resonate with the more general alienation that some Muslim immigrants feel in other European countries, even if that alienation arises in large part from voluntary isolation from the rest of society?</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not saying that the answers are &#8216;no&#8217; and &#8216;yes&#8217; respectively, but one ought to consider the possibility that rage arising out of one set of circumstances could attract to itself various sorts of related but less severe alienations elsewhere.</p>
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		<title>By: Ralf Goergens</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/3693.html/comment-page-1#comment-16975</link>
		<dc:creator>Ralf Goergens</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Nov 2005 15:12:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/003693.php#comment-16975</guid>
		<description>Yes, but nobody *makes* the Muslims live there. Discrimination isn&#039;t unknown in Germany, but it&#039;s not so bad that Turks are locked into a quarter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, but nobody *makes* the Muslims live there. Discrimination isn&#8217;t unknown in Germany, but it&#8217;s not so bad that Turks are locked into a quarter.</p>
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		<title>By: Melchior Sternfels von Fuchshaim</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/3693.html/comment-page-1#comment-16974</link>
		<dc:creator>Melchior Sternfels von Fuchshaim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Nov 2005 15:10:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/003693.php#comment-16974</guid>
		<description></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dagens Nyheter has a <a href="http://www.dn.se/DNet/jsp/polopoly.jsp?d=148&amp;a=484519&amp;previousRenderType=6" rel="nofollow">little more</a>, including a quote from Wolfgang Schäuble, who, while averring that the situations in Germany &amp; France can&#8217;t be compared, says: &#8220;But even in Germany there are areas with high proportion of immigrants, who are more and more being separated (&#8216;avgränsas&#8217;, probably &#8216;abgegrenzt werden&#8217; in German) from the rest of society.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Ralf Goergens</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/3693.html/comment-page-1#comment-16973</link>
		<dc:creator>Ralf Goergens</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Nov 2005 15:03:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/003693.php#comment-16973</guid>
		<description>Scott,

but stopping illegal immmigration won&#039;t be so easy. It&#039;s hard to resist immigration pressure without resorting to serious violence.


Melchior,

those are indeed copycats.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Scott,</p>
<p>but stopping illegal immmigration won&#8217;t be so easy. It&#8217;s hard to resist immigration pressure without resorting to serious violence.</p>
<p>Melchior,</p>
<p>those are indeed copycats.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Melchior Sternfels von Fuchshaim</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/3693.html/comment-page-1#comment-16972</link>
		<dc:creator>Melchior Sternfels von Fuchshaim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Nov 2005 14:42:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/003693.php#comment-16972</guid>
		<description>Svenska Dagbladet, one of the three major national dailies in Sweden, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.svd.se/dynamiskt/utrikes/did_10961864.asp&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;reports&lt;/a&gt; that there has now been some trouble in Berlin and Bremen.  Here&#039;s my translation:

&lt;news&gt;
French Unrest Spreads to Germany

Five cars were set alight during the night between Saturday &amp; Sunday in the dilapidated city quarter Moabit in central Berlin.  The night before, several cars were burned in an empty building in the harbor city Bremen in northern Germany.

The police fear that the pattern of unrest in France will spread to poor areas in Germany.  They cannot rule out the possibility that the attacks were evoked by the vandalism France has experienced, said a police spokesman.

No one was injured in the fires in Moabit.  The burned-out cars were found in five different streets.
&lt;/news&gt;

These may well be mere copy-cat events.  I certainly hope so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Svenska Dagbladet, one of the three major national dailies in Sweden, <a href="http://www.svd.se/dynamiskt/utrikes/did_10961864.asp" rel="nofollow">reports</a> that there has now been some trouble in Berlin and Bremen.  Here&#8217;s my translation:</p>
<p>&lt;news&gt;<br />
French Unrest Spreads to Germany</p>
<p>Five cars were set alight during the night between Saturday &amp; Sunday in the dilapidated city quarter Moabit in central Berlin.  The night before, several cars were burned in an empty building in the harbor city Bremen in northern Germany.</p>
<p>The police fear that the pattern of unrest in France will spread to poor areas in Germany.  They cannot rule out the possibility that the attacks were evoked by the vandalism France has experienced, said a police spokesman.</p>
<p>No one was injured in the fires in Moabit.  The burned-out cars were found in five different streets.<br />
&lt;/news&gt;</p>
<p>These may well be mere copy-cat events.  I certainly hope so.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott Ferguson</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/3693.html/comment-page-1#comment-16971</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Ferguson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Nov 2005 14:24:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/003693.php#comment-16971</guid>
		<description>Maybe we should take a cue from the Germans with respect to Mexican migration. Make work permits easy to get, and green cards hard. Bush&#039;s approach is probably the right one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe we should take a cue from the Germans with respect to Mexican migration. Make work permits easy to get, and green cards hard. Bush&#8217;s approach is probably the right one.</p>
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