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	<title>Comments on: Why No Deaths in the French Rioting?</title>
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	<description>Some Chicago Boyz know each other from student days at the University of Chicago. Others are Chicago boys in spirit. The blog name is also intended as a good-humored gesture of admiration for distinguished Chicago boys including those pictured above.</description>
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		<title>By: Jonathan</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/3694.html/comment-page-1#comment-16969</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Nov 2005 19:12:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/003694.php#comment-16969</guid>
		<description>The reason that the post by Dr Victorino De La Vega, to which I and Jim Miller respond above, is absent is that I inadvertently deleted it. Fortunately, the missing comment is essentially identical to a blog post that is available &lt;a href=&quot;http://mideastmemo.blogspot.com/2005/11/unholy-neocon-islamic-alliance-against.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;.

My apologies for deleting the comment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The reason that the post by Dr Victorino De La Vega, to which I and Jim Miller respond above, is absent is that I inadvertently deleted it. Fortunately, the missing comment is essentially identical to a blog post that is available <a href="http://mideastmemo.blogspot.com/2005/11/unholy-neocon-islamic-alliance-against.html" rel="nofollow">here</a>.</p>
<p>My apologies for deleting the comment.</p>
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		<title>By: LotharBot</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/3694.html/comment-page-1#comment-16968</link>
		<dc:creator>LotharBot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Nov 2005 17:04:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/003694.php#comment-16968</guid>
		<description></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John wrote: <i>&#8220;cars which showed bumper stickers or decals with Arabic script, other Muslim symbols, or African references were being bypassed by the arsonists&#8211;only &#8220;French&#8221; cars are being torched.&#8221;</i></p>
<p><a href="http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=18157_Frances_Horrendous_Balance_Sheet&amp;only" rel="nofollow">LGF</a> quotes the <a href="http://www.nysun.com/article/22671?access=759097" rel="nofollow">NY Sun</a> on that point:</p>
<p>    How ethnic is the present violence in France? Liberal commentators, both in France and abroad, tend to say that poverty and unemployment, rather than race or religion, are the driving force behind the riots. Mr. Villepin himself tends to share this view, at least in part. He said yesterday on TV that he is earmarking enormous credits for housing rehabilitation, education, and state-supported jobs in the areas where the unrest has developed. But the fact remains that <b>only ethnic youths are rioting, that most of them explicitly pledge allegiance to Islam and such Muslim heroes as Osama bin Laden, that the Islamic motto &#8211; Allahu Akbar &#8211; is usually their war cry, and that they submit only to archconservative or radical imams.</p>
<p>    The fact also remains, according to many witnesses, that the rioters torch only “white” cars, meaning white owned cars, and spare “Islamic” or “black” ones.</b> One way to discriminate between them is to look for ethnic signs like a sticker with Koranic verses or a picture of the Kaaba in Mekka or a stylized map of Africa. Further evidence of the animating influence in the riots lies with the French rap music to which the perpetrators listen. Such music obsessively describes White France as a sexual prey.</p>
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		<title>By: John Cunningham</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/3694.html/comment-page-1#comment-16967</link>
		<dc:creator>John Cunningham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Nov 2005 15:57:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/003694.php#comment-16967</guid>
		<description>I knew I should have copied the url, but I read on a blog last night that cars which showed bumper stickers or decals with Arabic script, other Muslim symbols, or African references were being bypassed by the arsonists--only &quot;French&quot; cars are being torched.  This too would appear to show discipline and organization, no?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I knew I should have copied the url, but I read on a blog last night that cars which showed bumper stickers or decals with Arabic script, other Muslim symbols, or African references were being bypassed by the arsonists&#8211;only &#8220;French&#8221; cars are being torched.  This too would appear to show discipline and organization, no?</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Miller</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/3694.html/comment-page-1#comment-16966</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Miller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Nov 2005 13:19:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/003694.php#comment-16966</guid>
		<description>Thanks to Jonathan for this fine post.  I have also been struck by -- if press accounts are even roughly accurate -- by how little looting there has been, as compared to the big American riots.  That, too, suggests centralized control.

And thanks to Dr. Victorino de la Vega for the civil and well-informed comment.  (I have been collecting evidence for my argument that some departments in our colleges and universities should simply be closed.  It is always helpful to have another example to illustrate my argument.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks to Jonathan for this fine post.  I have also been struck by &#8212; if press accounts are even roughly accurate &#8212; by how little looting there has been, as compared to the big American riots.  That, too, suggests centralized control.</p>
<p>And thanks to Dr. Victorino de la Vega for the civil and well-informed comment.  (I have been collecting evidence for my argument that some departments in our colleges and universities should simply be closed.  It is always helpful to have another example to illustrate my argument.)</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/3694.html/comment-page-1#comment-16965</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Nov 2005 12:50:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/003694.php#comment-16965</guid>
		<description>Dr Victorino: You got it! I am waiting for my headphones to tell me how to respond to your imaginative criticisms. But will the instructions come from Dick Cheney or Prince Bandar? The suspense is killing me!

Anyone who wants to see where Doctor Vic is coming from should check out his blog. Or better yet, read the Wikipedia entry he cites and see if it really says that during the 1992 LA riots &quot;more than 60 &#039;n******&#039; [were] executed on the spot&quot; or that &quot;US Marines massacred their way into the remnants of the Black ghetto.&quot;

To address the substance of his argument, such as it is: Young muslims have torched thousands of cars and assaulted police in apparently related riots in numerous French cities. What does he think is going on and why does he think the rioters are using the tactics they are using? Or are these uninteresting questions so long as it can be pointed out that there have been bad riots in the USA.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dr Victorino: You got it! I am waiting for my headphones to tell me how to respond to your imaginative criticisms. But will the instructions come from Dick Cheney or Prince Bandar? The suspense is killing me!</p>
<p>Anyone who wants to see where Doctor Vic is coming from should check out his blog. Or better yet, read the Wikipedia entry he cites and see if it really says that during the 1992 LA riots &#8220;more than 60 &#8216;n******&#8217; [were] executed on the spot&#8221; or that &#8220;US Marines massacred their way into the remnants of the Black ghetto.&#8221;</p>
<p>To address the substance of his argument, such as it is: Young muslims have torched thousands of cars and assaulted police in apparently related riots in numerous French cities. What does he think is going on and why does he think the rioters are using the tactics they are using? Or are these uninteresting questions so long as it can be pointed out that there have been bad riots in the USA.</p>
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		<title>By: Russell Wardlow</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/3694.html/comment-page-1#comment-16964</link>
		<dc:creator>Russell Wardlow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Nov 2005 22:33:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/003694.php#comment-16964</guid>
		<description>Well, frankly, it was always my assumption that there WERE a significant number of deaths that simply weren&#039;t reported.

I don&#039;t see why that would be unlikely.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, frankly, it was always my assumption that there WERE a significant number of deaths that simply weren&#8217;t reported.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t see why that would be unlikely.</p>
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		<title>By: protein wisdom</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/3694.html/comment-page-1#comment-16970</link>
		<dc:creator>protein wisdom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Nov 2005 20:38:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/003694.php#comment-16970</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;&quot;France announces curfews to stop riots&quot;&lt;/strong&gt;

From Reuters: France will give local government officials the authority to impose curfews in areas hit by rioting to try to halt almost two weeks of unrest, French Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin announced on Monday. Villepin ruled out army int...
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>&quot;France announces curfews to stop riots&quot;</strong></p>
<p>From Reuters: France will give local government officials the authority to impose curfews in areas hit by rioting to try to halt almost two weeks of unrest, French Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin announced on Monday. Villepin ruled out army int&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: John Thacker</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/3694.html/comment-page-1#comment-16963</link>
		<dc:creator>John Thacker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Nov 2005 18:31:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/003694.php#comment-16963</guid>
		<description>Not that surprising that the man who died was elderly, 61, and was killed for trying to put out a trashcan fire.  Numerous articles (including the legendary Theodore Dalrymple one) indicated that the elderly were the only ones who had really been willing to protest some of the &quot;youths&quot; previous actions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not that surprising that the man who died was elderly, 61, and was killed for trying to put out a trashcan fire.  Numerous articles (including the legendary Theodore Dalrymple one) indicated that the elderly were the only ones who had really been willing to protest some of the &#8220;youths&#8221; previous actions.</p>
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		<title>By: Helen</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/3694.html/comment-page-1#comment-16962</link>
		<dc:creator>Helen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Nov 2005 16:50:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/003694.php#comment-16962</guid>
		<description>PS Sorry, posted before I remembered this. To support Ralf&#039;s point, there are also pictures of Muslim demonstrating against the violence on the streets of those rather ghastly banlieus. I don&#039;t remember any demonstrations of that kind in Palestinian towns.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PS Sorry, posted before I remembered this. To support Ralf&#8217;s point, there are also pictures of Muslim demonstrating against the violence on the streets of those rather ghastly banlieus. I don&#8217;t remember any demonstrations of that kind in Palestinian towns.</p>
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		<title>By: Helen</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/3694.html/comment-page-1#comment-16961</link>
		<dc:creator>Helen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Nov 2005 16:48:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/003694.php#comment-16961</guid>
		<description>The cameras are not as far in as they have always been in Palestine because the media, this being nearer home, is not so sympathetic.

Some of the pictures show some non-North Africans being arrested, which prompts the question who else is joining in. And, moving on from there, who is rioting in other places, like Evreux? I would genuinely like to know the answer. The journos seem to be staying in Paris.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The cameras are not as far in as they have always been in Palestine because the media, this being nearer home, is not so sympathetic.</p>
<p>Some of the pictures show some non-North Africans being arrested, which prompts the question who else is joining in. And, moving on from there, who is rioting in other places, like Evreux? I would genuinely like to know the answer. The journos seem to be staying in Paris.</p>
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		<title>By: John_R</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/3694.html/comment-page-1#comment-16960</link>
		<dc:creator>John_R</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Nov 2005 16:45:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/003694.php#comment-16960</guid>
		<description>Last Friday it was reported that the rioters had dowsed a handicapped woman with gas and ignited her.

http://no-pasaran.blogspot.com/2005/11/manimals.html

If that doesn&#039;t cross the line, then what does?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Last Friday it was reported that the rioters had dowsed a handicapped woman with gas and ignited her.</p>
<p><a href="http://no-pasaran.blogspot.com/2005/11/manimals.html" rel="nofollow">http://no-pasaran.blogspot.com/2005/11/manimals.html</a></p>
<p>If that doesn&#8217;t cross the line, then what does?</p>
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		<title>By: Lex</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/3694.html/comment-page-1#comment-16959</link>
		<dc:creator>Lex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Nov 2005 16:01:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/003694.php#comment-16959</guid>
		<description>This seemingly odd fact, I suspect, demonstrates what it seems to:  Political sophistication and organization.  This does not appear to be a spontaneous riot like the LA riots were.  The first Intifada was effective precisely because it used rocks against tanks, for the TV cameras.  This seems to be roughly similar, with allowances for the different setting.  The French are stumped about how to respond, since a serious response will certainly lead to some number of deaths.  The French are going to be asked to make &quot;land for peace&quot; concessions, turning these areas over to a separate &quot;government&quot;.  See todays first page WSJ story.  France is going to have its own &quot;Gaza Archipelago&quot; all over the place.  Sad for them if so.  This political sophistication is consistent with the tactical sophistication I referred to in &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.chicagoboyz.net/archives/003687.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this post&lt;/a&gt;.

(Or is this all conspiracy theorizing?  Too soon to say.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This seemingly odd fact, I suspect, demonstrates what it seems to:  Political sophistication and organization.  This does not appear to be a spontaneous riot like the LA riots were.  The first Intifada was effective precisely because it used rocks against tanks, for the TV cameras.  This seems to be roughly similar, with allowances for the different setting.  The French are stumped about how to respond, since a serious response will certainly lead to some number of deaths.  The French are going to be asked to make &#8220;land for peace&#8221; concessions, turning these areas over to a separate &#8220;government&#8221;.  See todays first page WSJ story.  France is going to have its own &#8220;Gaza Archipelago&#8221; all over the place.  Sad for them if so.  This political sophistication is consistent with the tactical sophistication I referred to in <a href="http://www.chicagoboyz.net/archives/003687.html" rel="nofollow">this post</a>.</p>
<p>(Or is this all conspiracy theorizing?  Too soon to say.)</p>
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		<title>By: Sandy P</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/3694.html/comment-page-1#comment-16958</link>
		<dc:creator>Sandy P</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Nov 2005 15:53:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/003694.php#comment-16958</guid>
		<description>Kind of OT, The American Thinker has this, via Lucianne:

Joseph C. Wilson IV: The French Connection
The American Thinker, by James Lewis

More conspiracy theories.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kind of OT, The American Thinker has this, via Lucianne:</p>
<p>Joseph C. Wilson IV: The French Connection<br />
The American Thinker, by James Lewis</p>
<p>More conspiracy theories.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/3694.html/comment-page-1#comment-16957</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Nov 2005 15:48:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/003694.php#comment-16957</guid>
		<description>Time will tell.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Time will tell.</p>
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		<title>By: Shannon Love</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/3694.html/comment-page-1#comment-16956</link>
		<dc:creator>Shannon Love</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Nov 2005 15:34:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/003694.php#comment-16956</guid>
		<description>If the rioters are intentionally restraining themselves, that suggest a widespread political sophistication and discipline of a high order. It means the riots are not emotional outburst but rationally calculated acts of aggression. This could be the start of powerful political movement who is not afraid to use violence.

On the other hand, France has a long history of massive civil disturbances. Perhaps there is just a cultural understanding of how far one goes in such circumstances. Perhaps the riots are more ritual that anarchy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If the rioters are intentionally restraining themselves, that suggest a widespread political sophistication and discipline of a high order. It means the riots are not emotional outburst but rationally calculated acts of aggression. This could be the start of powerful political movement who is not afraid to use violence.</p>
<p>On the other hand, France has a long history of massive civil disturbances. Perhaps there is just a cultural understanding of how far one goes in such circumstances. Perhaps the riots are more ritual that anarchy.</p>
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		<title>By: Hootsbuddy</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/3694.html/comment-page-1#comment-16955</link>
		<dc:creator>Hootsbuddy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Nov 2005 15:14:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/003694.php#comment-16955</guid>
		<description>I have been &lt;a href=&quot;http://hootsbuddy.blogspot.com/2005/11/helena-cobban-on-riots-in-france.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;puzzled about the same question&lt;/a&gt;. Last time I referred to the French unpleasantness I called it a Vehicle Massacre. The term &lt;i&gt;riot&lt;/i&gt; seemed inappropriate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have been <a href="http://hootsbuddy.blogspot.com/2005/11/helena-cobban-on-riots-in-france.html" rel="nofollow">puzzled about the same question</a>. Last time I referred to the French unpleasantness I called it a Vehicle Massacre. The term <i>riot</i> seemed inappropriate.</p>
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		<title>By: Ralf Goergens</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/3694.html/comment-page-1#comment-16954</link>
		<dc:creator>Ralf Goergens</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Nov 2005 15:06:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/003694.php#comment-16954</guid>
		<description>The first death has just occured.

The rioters aren&#039;t as representative for French Muslims like the terrorists are for the Palestinians. The people, inclusing the Muslims, most affected riots are throughly fed up and are staging protest marches.

Don&#039;t forget, the LA riots hit balck areas most severely. Apart from some excursions by young rioters, the same is true for Muslim areas in France.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The first death has just occured.</p>
<p>The rioters aren&#8217;t as representative for French Muslims like the terrorists are for the Palestinians. The people, inclusing the Muslims, most affected riots are throughly fed up and are staging protest marches.</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t forget, the LA riots hit balck areas most severely. Apart from some excursions by young rioters, the same is true for Muslim areas in France.</p>
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