Comments on: The “Overeducated” Typist http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/3854.html Some Chicago Boyz know each other from student days at the University of Chicago. Others are Chicago boys in spirit. The blog name is also intended as a good-humored gesture of admiration for distinguished Chicago boys including those pictured above. Sun, 21 Mar 2010 04:20:54 -0400 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Bilwick http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/3854.html/comment-page-1#comment-17800 Bilwick Mon, 16 Jan 2006 12:26:19 +0000 http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/003854.php#comment-17800 True enough, Lotharbot; but a lot easier written than done. True enough, Lotharbot; but a lot easier written than done.

]]> By: LotharBot http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/3854.html/comment-page-1#comment-17799 LotharBot Mon, 16 Jan 2006 04:29:45 +0000 http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/003854.php#comment-17799 If you're willing to be paid to do something, it's not beneath you. If you think it's beneath you, find a different job. If you’re willing to be paid to do something, it’s not beneath you. If you think it’s beneath you, find a different job.

]]> By: Ginny http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/3854.html/comment-page-1#comment-17798 Ginny Sun, 15 Jan 2006 01:00:04 +0000 http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/003854.php#comment-17798 Well, one thing that I would say is the fault of the educators is that they've lost faith in what they teach. Or they've become self-indulgent. (Well, both.) There are few core requirements - and the better the school, the fewer. Both of my older daughters graduated with high distinction from a decent mega-university; their majors were in the liberal arts. They took neither English nor history classes. That is probably more common than not. Employers used to think that a B.A. in liberal arts meant that at least a student had the rudimentary knowledge from a couple of comp courses & a couple of chronological surveys; they thought they'd studied enough history to have a basic understanding. I doubt they can count on that today. Of course, I don't know what they hell they think they learned in marketing & management courses. Well, one thing that I would say is the fault of the educators is that they’ve lost faith in what they teach. Or they’ve become self-indulgent. (Well, both.) There are few core requirements – and the better the school, the fewer.

Both of my older daughters graduated with high distinction from a decent mega-university; their majors were in the liberal arts. They took neither English nor history classes. That is probably more common than not. Employers used to think that a B.A. in liberal arts meant that at least a student had the rudimentary knowledge from a couple of comp courses & a couple of chronological surveys; they thought they’d studied enough history to have a basic understanding. I doubt they can count on that today. Of course, I don’t know what they hell they think they learned in marketing & management courses.

]]> By: Craig http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/3854.html/comment-page-1#comment-17797 Craig Sun, 15 Jan 2006 00:05:13 +0000 http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/003854.php#comment-17797 Let me second the above comment. I, too, received a liberal arts education in the 70s. At that time, unless you were headed for engineering or medicine, that was the likely path. And employers were quite content to hire liberal arts majors because, after all, we'd "made the effort." There was still the expectation that a liberal arts degree was an achievement to be respected. It's only been in the last couple years that I've recognized that my original B.A. and a few decades of experience no longer hold much sway with hiring managers. A liberal arts degree now seems to be perceived as the equivalent of a high school diploma in 1971 -- and perhaps it is. It's the fault of the educators, though. Let me second the above comment.

I, too, received a liberal arts education in the 70s. At that time, unless you were headed for engineering or medicine, that was the likely path.

And employers were quite content to hire liberal arts majors because, after all, we’d “made the effort.” There was still the expectation that a liberal arts degree was an achievement to be respected.

It’s only been in the last couple years that I’ve recognized that my original B.A. and a few decades of experience no longer hold much sway with hiring managers.

A liberal arts degree now seems to be perceived as the equivalent of a high school diploma in 1971 — and perhaps it is. It’s the fault of the educators, though.

]]> By: Bilwick http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/3854.html/comment-page-1#comment-17796 Bilwick Fri, 13 Jan 2006 18:29:57 +0000 http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/003854.php#comment-17796 Since I started the discussion of the term "over-educated," I suppose I should throw in another two-cents' worth here, although I can only speak from personal experience, which may be not have much bearing on the experience of others. I was part of the Baby Boomers who started college in the late Sixties, when it was an entirely different world. Colleges had not become corporate trade-schools. You went to college, not just to set a student deferment from the draft (if you were a guy), but because you wanted an education in the traditional sense. And a liberal-arts degree was still an acceptable admission-ticket to the business world. Not that we were particularly interested in entering the business world: at least most of the people I knew--even people like myself, who had no counter-cultural animosity against business--aspired to some kind of career in the arts. By the time we graduated things had changed pretty drastically, and until such time as we published our novels or recorded our first album, we were forced to go into the mainstream business world, usually into low-level jobs. I'm in agreement with you about not "high-hatting" it on the job, but maintaining at least the facade of a good attitude and doing the job you're paid for as conscientiously as possible. There are just some jobs, however, that if you don't feel you're better than, you're suffering from a serious lack of self-esteem. In any event, although we all aspired to greater things in the arts, the liberal-arts grads who formed the nucleus of the publishing customer-service department I worked for were generally competent and diligent workers. I think the management of the department liked to have us around because he aspired to a certain level of cultural sophistication and maybe associating with us gave him a certain cultural cachet. And one thing we could do very well is think clearly--maybe not about political things (except me, the liberarian, of course)--but about the job at hand. In fact, as the Yuppie Era came in--and I saw the beginnings of it in the late Seventies, long before the term "yuppie" was coined--it made our collective gorge rise to watch ourselves being shunted aside by these business-school grads who, given the chance, screwed things up because they had never learned to think. As we got into the Eighties a lot of us found it pretty galling to have to report to these boneheads. It may be that was when the saying, "The 'C' students run the world," came into being. To this day I am handicapped in job-seeking because it is very hard for me to feign interest when they ask "Why do you want this job?" and I can't answer, "For the money and benefits, so I can have financial peace of mind while I write my novel." I couldn't play-act very well in my twenties when required to say, "Gee-whillikers, Mr. Dithers, there's nothing I would like better than to work for Universal Widget!" I'm even less convincing a job-interview play-actor today. And in fact I am cognizant of the ethical factor as well: I shouldn't be deceiving Mr. Dithers, who has every right to want someone who would consider a job at American Widget the Holy Grail. But if, by some miracle, Mr. Dithers would think it somewhat cool to have a liberal-arts type in his employ, and actually hires me, I would certainly, as an old cowboy might say, "ride for the brand." Since I started the discussion of the term “over-educated,” I suppose I should throw in another two-cents’ worth here, although I can only speak from personal experience, which may be not have much bearing on the experience of others. I was part of the Baby Boomers who started college in the late Sixties, when it was an entirely different world. Colleges had not become corporate trade-schools. You went to college, not just to set a student deferment from the draft (if you were a guy), but because you wanted an education in the traditional sense. And a liberal-arts degree was still an acceptable admission-ticket to the business world. Not that we were particularly interested in entering the business world: at least most of the people I knew–even people like myself, who had no counter-cultural animosity against business–aspired to some kind of career in the arts. By the time we graduated things had changed pretty drastically, and until such time as we published our novels or recorded our first album, we were forced to go into the mainstream business world, usually into low-level jobs.
I’m in agreement with you about not “high-hatting” it on the job, but maintaining at least the facade of a good attitude and doing the job you’re paid for as conscientiously as possible. There are just some jobs, however, that if you don’t feel you’re better than, you’re suffering from a serious lack of self-esteem. In any event, although we all aspired to greater things in the arts, the liberal-arts grads who formed the nucleus of the publishing customer-service department I worked for were generally competent and diligent workers. I think the management of the department liked to have us around because he aspired to a certain level of cultural sophistication and maybe associating with us gave him a certain cultural cachet. And one thing we could do very well is think clearly–maybe not about political things (except me, the liberarian, of course)–but about the job at hand. In fact, as the Yuppie Era came in–and I saw the beginnings of it in the late Seventies, long before the term “yuppie” was coined–it made our collective gorge rise to watch ourselves being shunted aside by these business-school grads who, given the chance, screwed things up because they had never learned to think. As we got into the Eighties a lot of us found it pretty galling to have to report to these boneheads. It may be that was when the saying, “The ‘C’ students run the world,” came into being.
To this day I am handicapped in job-seeking because it is very hard for me to feign interest when they ask “Why do you want this job?” and I can’t answer, “For the money and benefits, so I can have financial peace of mind while I write my
novel.” I couldn’t play-act very well in my twenties when required to say, “Gee-whillikers, Mr. Dithers, there’s nothing I would like better than to work for Universal Widget!” I’m even less convincing a job-interview play-actor today. And in fact I am cognizant of the ethical factor as well: I shouldn’t be deceiving Mr. Dithers, who has every right to want someone who would consider a job at American Widget the Holy Grail. But if, by some miracle, Mr. Dithers would think it somewhat cool to have a liberal-arts type in his employ, and actually hires me, I would certainly, as an old cowboy might say, “ride for the brand.”

]]> By: Michael Hiteshew http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/3854.html/comment-page-1#comment-17795 Michael Hiteshew Fri, 13 Jan 2006 17:33:25 +0000 http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/003854.php#comment-17795 My family is one generation out of the lower working class on my father's side and abject poverty on my mother's. My parents were sticklers for working hard, as they saw hard work as the only sure path through an unpredictable world. When you have nothing, you can always make due through the sheer sweat of your brow. That's how you survive. We were made to work for everything we got and never, ever expect anything at all from the world or society. "The world owes you nothing," my mother would say, "You want something? Work for it." My father by contrast, though also a great believer in hard work, also was a great believer in education. He drove many a used car in rather rough shape but sent all of his children (two boys, two girls) through catholic school. He worked during the day, went to school at night three times a week and took care of a family. He carried a heavy load for many years and though it all has done very well for himself and all of my parent's children have done well to their credit. I remember mmy father taking me on a tour of a local General Motors plant when I was 12 or so. It was an eye opening experience. On the ride home, I got quite a lecture on the importance of education and choosing a path in life that will bring happiness and satisfaction as well as paying the bills. "Do you want to stand in a pit all day putting on nuts with a air wrench? Imagine standing there 40 hours a week, 50 weeks a year for years on end." Made quite an impression on me. It was a good lesson. My family is one generation out of the lower working class on my father’s side and abject poverty on my mother’s. My parents were sticklers for working hard, as they saw hard work as the only sure path through an unpredictable world. When you have nothing, you can always make due through the sheer sweat of your brow. That’s how you survive. We were made to work for everything we got and never, ever expect anything at all from the world or society. “The world owes you nothing,” my mother would say, “You want something? Work for it.”

My father by contrast, though also a great believer in hard work, also was a great believer in education. He drove many a used car in rather rough shape but sent all of his children (two boys, two girls) through catholic school. He worked during the day, went to school at night three times a week and took care of a family. He carried a heavy load for many years and though it all has done very well for himself and all of my parent’s children have done well to their credit.

I remember mmy father taking me on a tour of a local General Motors plant when I was 12 or so. It was an eye opening experience. On the ride home, I got quite a lecture on the importance of education and choosing a path in life that will bring happiness and satisfaction as well as paying the bills. “Do you want to stand in a pit all day putting on nuts with a air wrench? Imagine standing there 40 hours a week, 50 weeks a year for years on end.” Made quite an impression on me. It was a good lesson.

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