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	<title>Comments on: KHANNNNN!</title>
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	<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/3987.html</link>
	<description>Some Chicago Boyz know each other from student days at the University of Chicago. Others are Chicago boys in spirit. The blog name is also intended as a good-humored gesture of admiration for distinguished Chicago boys including those pictured above.</description>
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		<title>By: genghis</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/3987.html/comment-page-1#comment-19052</link>
		<dc:creator>genghis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Mar 2006 14:40:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/003987.php#comment-19052</guid>
		<description>As the spokesman for modern adherents of the Thoughts of the Great Khan, all I would add to this excellent post would be the comment,

&quot;Those indeed were the days, my friend!&quot;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As the spokesman for modern adherents of the Thoughts of the Great Khan, all I would add to this excellent post would be the comment,</p>
<p>&#8220;Those indeed were the days, my friend!&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Khan!</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/3987.html/comment-page-1#comment-19051</link>
		<dc:creator>Khan!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Mar 2006 20:45:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/003987.php#comment-19051</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://khaaan.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://khaaan.com/&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://khaaan.com/" rel="nofollow">http://khaaan.com/</a></p>
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		<title>By: chel</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/3987.html/comment-page-1#comment-19050</link>
		<dc:creator>chel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Mar 2006 19:14:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/003987.php#comment-19050</guid>
		<description>Oooooo..  but I have to say that Chippendales thing makes sense.  Those dudes had interesting outfits.

Here&#039;s a t-shirt for you:
&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.glarkware.com/securestore/c181845p16436640.2.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Link&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oooooo..  but I have to say that Chippendales thing makes sense.  Those dudes had interesting outfits.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s a t-shirt for you:<br />
<a href="http://www.glarkware.com/securestore/c181845p16436640.2.html" rel="nofollow">Link</a></p>
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		<title>By: Jay Manifold</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/3987.html/comment-page-1#comment-19049</link>
		<dc:creator>Jay Manifold</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Mar 2006 15:05:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/003987.php#comment-19049</guid>
		<description>Speaking of &lt;i&gt;KHANNNNN&lt;/i&gt;, here&#039;s some &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0084726/trivia&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;deeply disturbing trivia&lt;/a&gt; you won&#039;t be able to get out of your head: &quot;All of Khan&#039;s men were Chippendale dancers at the time.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Speaking of <i>KHANNNNN</i>, here&#8217;s some <a href="http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0084726/trivia" rel="nofollow">deeply disturbing trivia</a> you won&#8217;t be able to get out of your head: &#8220;All of Khan&#8217;s men were Chippendale dancers at the time.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: John Farren</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/3987.html/comment-page-1#comment-19048</link>
		<dc:creator>John Farren</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Mar 2006 10:41:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/003987.php#comment-19048</guid>
		<description>Well, the Mongols weren&#039;t invincible even on land: the Mamelukes gave them a whipping at the Battle of Goliath&#039;s Spring (Ain Jalut). 
IIRC it was done by combining steadiness under fire, more accurate archery than the Mongols, and heavier cavalry charging home at a point judged to deny the Mongols their usual ability to scoot-and-shoot in the face of heavier horse.

If the Mamelukes had been able to continue to hold Egypto-Syria while the Mongols conquered (or at least periodically ravaged) Central and Western Europe, it might have led to an eventual Islamic ascendancy, via Mameluke/Arab domination of the Mediterranean, or via the Mongols adopting Islam, (which the Tartar Golden Horde did in Russia). 

Alternatively, the Mameluke example might suggest military emulation (or at least parallels) in Europe. 
The Polish &lt;i&gt;husaria&lt;/i&gt; or &quot;Winged Cavalry&quot; are suggestive: armoured medium cavalry (at least some of whom also carried bows - later firearms) they were organised in units, capable of controlled battlefield maneouvre under control, and one of their major enemies were the Tartars (i.e. Mongols).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, the Mongols weren&#8217;t invincible even on land: the Mamelukes gave them a whipping at the Battle of Goliath&#8217;s Spring (Ain Jalut).<br />
IIRC it was done by combining steadiness under fire, more accurate archery than the Mongols, and heavier cavalry charging home at a point judged to deny the Mongols their usual ability to scoot-and-shoot in the face of heavier horse.</p>
<p>If the Mamelukes had been able to continue to hold Egypto-Syria while the Mongols conquered (or at least periodically ravaged) Central and Western Europe, it might have led to an eventual Islamic ascendancy, via Mameluke/Arab domination of the Mediterranean, or via the Mongols adopting Islam, (which the Tartar Golden Horde did in Russia). </p>
<p>Alternatively, the Mameluke example might suggest military emulation (or at least parallels) in Europe.<br />
The Polish <i>husaria</i> or &#8220;Winged Cavalry&#8221; are suggestive: armoured medium cavalry (at least some of whom also carried bows &#8211; later firearms) they were organised in units, capable of controlled battlefield maneouvre under control, and one of their major enemies were the Tartars (i.e. Mongols).</p>
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		<title>By: Steven Den Beste</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/3987.html/comment-page-1#comment-19047</link>
		<dc:creator>Steven Den Beste</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Mar 2006 05:00:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/003987.php#comment-19047</guid>
		<description>The situation isn&#039;t quite as black as some think. For one thing, the Mongols had an alliance with Venice. Venetian merchants concluded the alliance long before western Europe was in danger, and stuck with it.

What could Venice offer, you might ask? Intelligence, that&#039;s what. Some of the Mongol attacks were based on intelligence about their targets previously gathered by Venetian merchants.

The Mongols were good about honoring alliances if the other side didn&#039;t cross them, and even if they&#039;d overrun western Europe, I don&#039;t believe they would have conquered Venice and the territories it ruled.

As to the military campaigns, I&#039;ve always been in awe of Subatai&#039;s reconnaissance-in-force as possibly the single most brilliant and successful military campaign in history. Subatai was one of the most brilliant military strategists and tacticians in history, and was recognized as such during his lifetime. He was given the singular honor of being permitted to enter the Great Khan&#039;s tent and to seat himself without warning or fanfare or permission, any time he wanted.

Many people don&#039;t know that between WWI and WWII when the Europeans were trying to figure out what to do with tanks, some strategists studied the campaigns of the Mongols and used them as examples.

The Mongols had the only significant army I&#039;ve ever heard of in history which included no infantry. But it&#039;s not the case that they were exclusively cavalry; they often included units of Chinese engineers, who were there to build and operate siege engines.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The situation isn&#8217;t quite as black as some think. For one thing, the Mongols had an alliance with Venice. Venetian merchants concluded the alliance long before western Europe was in danger, and stuck with it.</p>
<p>What could Venice offer, you might ask? Intelligence, that&#8217;s what. Some of the Mongol attacks were based on intelligence about their targets previously gathered by Venetian merchants.</p>
<p>The Mongols were good about honoring alliances if the other side didn&#8217;t cross them, and even if they&#8217;d overrun western Europe, I don&#8217;t believe they would have conquered Venice and the territories it ruled.</p>
<p>As to the military campaigns, I&#8217;ve always been in awe of Subatai&#8217;s reconnaissance-in-force as possibly the single most brilliant and successful military campaign in history. Subatai was one of the most brilliant military strategists and tacticians in history, and was recognized as such during his lifetime. He was given the singular honor of being permitted to enter the Great Khan&#8217;s tent and to seat himself without warning or fanfare or permission, any time he wanted.</p>
<p>Many people don&#8217;t know that between WWI and WWII when the Europeans were trying to figure out what to do with tanks, some strategists studied the campaigns of the Mongols and used them as examples.</p>
<p>The Mongols had the only significant army I&#8217;ve ever heard of in history which included no infantry. But it&#8217;s not the case that they were exclusively cavalry; they often included units of Chinese engineers, who were there to build and operate siege engines.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Schwartz</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/3987.html/comment-page-1#comment-19046</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Schwartz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Mar 2006 03:08:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/003987.php#comment-19046</guid>
		<description>When I took World History from Mr. McNeill (3rd from right above). We spent a fair amount of time on the Mongols. As I recall, and it has been almost 40 years, he was of the opinion that the Mongols went as far west as they could. Their chief weapon was their fast ponies and able riders. Western Europe is poor territory for massed light cavalry. It is heavily forested, has lots of mountains and long seasons where mobility is impaired. The Romans used infantry and built roads for a reason. European cavalry focused on small numbers of heavily armed knights, again for good reason.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When I took World History from Mr. McNeill (3rd from right above). We spent a fair amount of time on the Mongols. As I recall, and it has been almost 40 years, he was of the opinion that the Mongols went as far west as they could. Their chief weapon was their fast ponies and able riders. Western Europe is poor territory for massed light cavalry. It is heavily forested, has lots of mountains and long seasons where mobility is impaired. The Romans used infantry and built roads for a reason. European cavalry focused on small numbers of heavily armed knights, again for good reason.</p>
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		<title>By: chel</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/3987.html/comment-page-1#comment-19045</link>
		<dc:creator>chel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Mar 2006 23:22:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/003987.php#comment-19045</guid>
		<description>Dang, and I thought this was going to be a discussion of Ceti Alpha VI vs. Ceti Alpha V.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dang, and I thought this was going to be a discussion of Ceti Alpha VI vs. Ceti Alpha V.</p>
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		<title>By: steveb</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/3987.html/comment-page-1#comment-19044</link>
		<dc:creator>steveb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Mar 2006 19:43:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/003987.php#comment-19044</guid>
		<description>The interesting question is whether Western Europe at the time could have culturally assimilated the new regime to the degree that China did.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The interesting question is whether Western Europe at the time could have culturally assimilated the new regime to the degree that China did.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/3987.html/comment-page-1#comment-19043</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Mar 2006 19:01:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/003987.php#comment-19043</guid>
		<description>Such men dare take what they want.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Such men dare take what they want.</p>
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