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	<title>Comments on: The Failure of the ICC</title>
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	<description>Some Chicago Boyz know each other from student days at the University of Chicago. Others are Chicago boys in spirit. The blog name is also intended as a good-humored gesture of admiration for distinguished Chicago boys including those pictured above.</description>
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		<title>By: Robert Schwartz</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/3999.html/comment-page-1#comment-18903</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Schwartz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Mar 2006 04:02:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I agree with Daniel. The court trying Milosevic was a special court established to deal with Yugoslavia. The ICC did not come into existence until 2002 when the Yugoslav trials were already underway. &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Criminal_Court&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Ref.&lt;/a&gt;

The lack of jury trial is another issue. I do not understand that the institution of lay juries is at all universal. I believe that most European countries do not utilize it.

There can be no doubt that this tribunal and its effort to prosecute Milosevic will be remembered as a fiasco, and rightly so. If it can be used to derail the ICC, so much the better.



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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Daniel. The court trying Milosevic was a special court established to deal with Yugoslavia. The ICC did not come into existence until 2002 when the Yugoslav trials were already underway. <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Criminal_Court" rel="nofollow">Ref.</a></p>
<p>The lack of jury trial is another issue. I do not understand that the institution of lay juries is at all universal. I believe that most European countries do not utilize it.</p>
<p>There can be no doubt that this tribunal and its effort to prosecute Milosevic will be remembered as a fiasco, and rightly so. If it can be used to derail the ICC, so much the better.</p>
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		<title>By: Sean Pelette</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/3999.html/comment-page-1#comment-18902</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean Pelette</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Mar 2006 23:19:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/003999.php#comment-18902</guid>
		<description>Was there a jury at Nuremburg? And who made rules for that? 

From the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.un.org/icty/glance-e/index.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;ITCY website&lt;/a&gt;

133 ACCUSED HAVE APPEARED IN PROCEEDINGS BEFORE THE TRIBUNAL 
PROCEEDINGS AGAINST 85 PERSONS CONCLUDED 
(40 accused found guilty, 6 persons not found guilty, 4 indictees transferred to a state for trial, 25 persons indictment withdrawn and 10 persons died)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Was there a jury at Nuremburg? And who made rules for that? </p>
<p>From the <a href="http://www.un.org/icty/glance-e/index.htm" rel="nofollow">ITCY website</a></p>
<p>133 ACCUSED HAVE APPEARED IN PROCEEDINGS BEFORE THE TRIBUNAL<br />
PROCEEDINGS AGAINST 85 PERSONS CONCLUDED<br />
(40 accused found guilty, 6 persons not found guilty, 4 indictees transferred to a state for trial, 25 persons indictment withdrawn and 10 persons died)</p>
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		<title>By: Don</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/3999.html/comment-page-1#comment-18901</link>
		<dc:creator>Don</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Mar 2006 23:17:37 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>As an interesting historical note. Senator Robert Taft (OH-R) criticised the then contemporary Nuremberg Trials.

&quot;Taft had four legal criticisms of the trial, three of which consisted of the use of arbitrary power to curb individual rights, while the fourth was a prediction about the deterrence value of such a trial. First, the trial violated the &quot;fundamental principle of American law that a man cannot be tried under an expost facto statute.&quot; Second, the trial of the &quot;vanquished by the victors cannot be impartial no matter how it is hedged about with forms of justice.&quot; Third, the trial was based on the &quot;Russian idea of the purpose of trials, government policy and not justice, having little relation to our Anglo-Saxon heritage.&quot; And fourth, Taft warned that the trial and its sentences would not &quot;discourage the making of aggressive war, for no one makes aggressive war unless he expects to win&quot;&quot;
http://www.looksmarttrends.com/p/articles/mi_qa3669/is_200004/ai_n8894209</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As an interesting historical note. Senator Robert Taft (OH-R) criticised the then contemporary Nuremberg Trials.</p>
<p>&#8220;Taft had four legal criticisms of the trial, three of which consisted of the use of arbitrary power to curb individual rights, while the fourth was a prediction about the deterrence value of such a trial. First, the trial violated the &#8220;fundamental principle of American law that a man cannot be tried under an expost facto statute.&#8221; Second, the trial of the &#8220;vanquished by the victors cannot be impartial no matter how it is hedged about with forms of justice.&#8221; Third, the trial was based on the &#8220;Russian idea of the purpose of trials, government policy and not justice, having little relation to our Anglo-Saxon heritage.&#8221; And fourth, Taft warned that the trial and its sentences would not &#8220;discourage the making of aggressive war, for no one makes aggressive war unless he expects to win&#8221;"<br />
<a href="http://www.looksmarttrends.com/p/articles/mi_qa3669/is_200004/ai_n8894209" rel="nofollow">http://www.looksmarttrends.com/p/articles/mi_qa3669/is_200004/ai_n8894209</a></p>
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		<title>By: JFM</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/3999.html/comment-page-1#comment-18900</link>
		<dc:creator>JFM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Mar 2006 18:30:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/003999.php#comment-18900</guid>
		<description>A couple additional points:

-No trial by jury.  Not merely for the points you mentionned but becuase a jury is the incarnation of the nation: when the life and liberty iof a person is at stake the verdict should not depend on mere magistrates (1) but to the nation.

2) No appeal

3) No independent source of law.  It is not to judges to decide if such thing is a crime and that it should be punished with twenty instead of tenyears.  It is to a Parliament, to an elected parliament to make laws ie rules who don&#039;t target a particular person.  No to judges.  Allowing judges to dictate the rules like done by the ICC would lead to a person sentence to twenty years for a minor offence who happens to be a sensitive issue for the judge or because the judge disliked him. 

(1) Magustrates who can have a sensitivity very different than the one of the common man, they can have considerations of carreer or power, they can be more obsessed with prescedents or the position of a comma in the law than about the case and its human consequences)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A couple additional points:</p>
<p>-No trial by jury.  Not merely for the points you mentionned but becuase a jury is the incarnation of the nation: when the life and liberty iof a person is at stake the verdict should not depend on mere magistrates (1) but to the nation.</p>
<p>2) No appeal</p>
<p>3) No independent source of law.  It is not to judges to decide if such thing is a crime and that it should be punished with twenty instead of tenyears.  It is to a Parliament, to an elected parliament to make laws ie rules who don&#8217;t target a particular person.  No to judges.  Allowing judges to dictate the rules like done by the ICC would lead to a person sentence to twenty years for a minor offence who happens to be a sensitive issue for the judge or because the judge disliked him. </p>
<p>(1) Magustrates who can have a sensitivity very different than the one of the common man, they can have considerations of carreer or power, they can be more obsessed with prescedents or the position of a comma in the law than about the case and its human consequences)</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel Lapin</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/3999.html/comment-page-1#comment-18899</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel Lapin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Mar 2006 16:55:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/003999.php#comment-18899</guid>
		<description>May I assume that you and your friends mean the ICTY (International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia)?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>May I assume that you and your friends mean the ICTY (International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia)?</p>
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		<title>By: Shannon Love</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/3999.html/comment-page-1#comment-18898</link>
		<dc:creator>Shannon Love</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Mar 2006 15:04:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/003999.php#comment-18898</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Overall, Slobodan Milosevich managed not only to derail his own prosecutors, but shook the basic foundation of the ICC itself.&lt;/i&gt;

If true, the little rat-bastard accomplished some unintended good in his miserable life.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Overall, Slobodan Milosevich managed not only to derail his own prosecutors, but shook the basic foundation of the ICC itself.</i></p>
<p>If true, the little rat-bastard accomplished some unintended good in his miserable life.</p>
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