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	<title>Comments on: The Land without a Heart</title>
	<atom:link href="http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/4020.html/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/4020.html</link>
	<description>Some Chicago Boyz know each other from student days at the University of Chicago. Others are Chicago boys in spirit. The blog name is also intended as a good-humored gesture of admiration for distinguished Chicago boys including those pictured above.</description>
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		<title>By: Tyouth</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/4020.html/comment-page-1#comment-18710</link>
		<dc:creator>Tyouth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Apr 2006 20:30:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/004020.php#comment-18710</guid>
		<description>&quot;Propoganda&quot; is, I believe, designed to persuade and the truth of the subject matter is not indicated without further comment.   That is, &quot;propoganda&quot; can be factual, fabrication or a combination of both; it&#039;s propoganda in any case.

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Propoganda&#8221; is, I believe, designed to persuade and the truth of the subject matter is not indicated without further comment.   That is, &#8220;propoganda&#8221; can be factual, fabrication or a combination of both; it&#8217;s propoganda in any case.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob King</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/4020.html/comment-page-1#comment-18709</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob King</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Apr 2006 17:25:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/004020.php#comment-18709</guid>
		<description>And yet, effective propaganda contains an element of truth. In these examples, rather large elements of truth - as made clear by the fact that it is so difficult to discern the difference.

Not only is it eerily reminiscent of current criticism from Europe, it&#039;s also remarkably similar to things many thoughtful Americans might say; fondly yet ruefully.

And it&#039;s underlined by dismissing it as &quot;They hate America.&quot;

Nonsense. America is much-loved on the whole, and justly so. But it&#039;s tempered with an amused perspective on how little self-awareness Americans have, and how very little interest they have in other nations, or understanding that values differ. On the whole, we are viewed, accurately enough, I think as a large-breed puppy, just about growing into it&#039;s feet and almost completely potty-trained. We are admired for our courage, but not our co-ordination. Others have learned that in our eagerness to be noticed and beloved, we are often unaware of where our feet may be placed, or notice that our happy wagging butts are in someone&#039;s face.

We always seem honestly puzzled, and genuinely hurt when such gaffes are pointed out - and we are forgiven because we are adorable, and really do not understand that we are being bad.

The point of our culture being superficial is true enough - and given our history, it&#039;s difficult to see how that could have been avoided. We are indeed &quot;a type.&quot; 

Ask any Canadian. 

Especially any Canadian border guard, who has to politely remind many Americans that Canada is, in fact, a separate sovereign nation, and does not recognise the 2nd Amendment of the Constitution, much less concealed-carry permits. 

(Canada politely maintains secure storage lockers for personal weapons at many border crossings, I believe.)

Of course it&#039;s all a matter of relative perspective. Gandhi was once asked about Western Civilization. His response, &quot;It would be a good thing,&quot; was not primarily aimed this way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And yet, effective propaganda contains an element of truth. In these examples, rather large elements of truth &#8211; as made clear by the fact that it is so difficult to discern the difference.</p>
<p>Not only is it eerily reminiscent of current criticism from Europe, it&#8217;s also remarkably similar to things many thoughtful Americans might say; fondly yet ruefully.</p>
<p>And it&#8217;s underlined by dismissing it as &#8220;They hate America.&#8221;</p>
<p>Nonsense. America is much-loved on the whole, and justly so. But it&#8217;s tempered with an amused perspective on how little self-awareness Americans have, and how very little interest they have in other nations, or understanding that values differ. On the whole, we are viewed, accurately enough, I think as a large-breed puppy, just about growing into it&#8217;s feet and almost completely potty-trained. We are admired for our courage, but not our co-ordination. Others have learned that in our eagerness to be noticed and beloved, we are often unaware of where our feet may be placed, or notice that our happy wagging butts are in someone&#8217;s face.</p>
<p>We always seem honestly puzzled, and genuinely hurt when such gaffes are pointed out &#8211; and we are forgiven because we are adorable, and really do not understand that we are being bad.</p>
<p>The point of our culture being superficial is true enough &#8211; and given our history, it&#8217;s difficult to see how that could have been avoided. We are indeed &#8220;a type.&#8221; </p>
<p>Ask any Canadian. </p>
<p>Especially any Canadian border guard, who has to politely remind many Americans that Canada is, in fact, a separate sovereign nation, and does not recognise the 2nd Amendment of the Constitution, much less concealed-carry permits. </p>
<p>(Canada politely maintains secure storage lockers for personal weapons at many border crossings, I believe.)</p>
<p>Of course it&#8217;s all a matter of relative perspective. Gandhi was once asked about Western Civilization. His response, &#8220;It would be a good thing,&#8221; was not primarily aimed this way.</p>
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		<title>By: pst314</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/4020.html/comment-page-1#comment-18708</link>
		<dc:creator>pst314</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Mar 2006 21:57:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/004020.php#comment-18708</guid>
		<description>Thanks for linking to that propganda archive.  It looks like a treasure trove of documents.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for linking to that propganda archive.  It looks like a treasure trove of documents.</p>
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		<title>By: GFK</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/4020.html/comment-page-1#comment-18707</link>
		<dc:creator>GFK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Mar 2006 17:18:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/004020.php#comment-18707</guid>
		<description>I thought they were current too.  it&#039;s too ironic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I thought they were current too.  it&#8217;s too ironic.</p>
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		<title>By: pst314</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/4020.html/comment-page-1#comment-18706</link>
		<dc:creator>pst314</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Mar 2006 17:03:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/004020.php#comment-18706</guid>
		<description>I, too, mistook those passages for current writings.  Even Europeans living in American have &quot;done me the favor&quot; of sharing their hatred and contempt for America</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I, too, mistook those passages for current writings.  Even Europeans living in American have &#8220;done me the favor&#8221; of sharing their hatred and contempt for America</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Hiteshew</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/4020.html/comment-page-1#comment-18705</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Hiteshew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Mar 2006 16:45:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/004020.php#comment-18705</guid>
		<description>What&#039;s really funny is that I literally did a double-take on reading that those excerpts were NAZI propaganda circa 1940. I thought you were quoting current European writers and the &quot;war&quot; reference was to Iraq! The styles are indistinguishable. The more things change...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What&#8217;s really funny is that I literally did a double-take on reading that those excerpts were NAZI propaganda circa 1940. I thought you were quoting current European writers and the &#8220;war&#8221; reference was to Iraq! The styles are indistinguishable. The more things change&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: ed in texas</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/4020.html/comment-page-1#comment-18704</link>
		<dc:creator>ed in texas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Mar 2006 12:12:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/004020.php#comment-18704</guid>
		<description>Satire Warning!
&quot;And remember, folks, use only authentic belligerent European culture...accept no substitutes. We think we&#039;re best, so why don&#039;t the rest of you get with the program.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Satire Warning!<br />
&#8220;And remember, folks, use only authentic belligerent European culture&#8230;accept no substitutes. We think we&#8217;re best, so why don&#8217;t the rest of you get with the program.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Helen</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/4020.html/comment-page-1#comment-18703</link>
		<dc:creator>Helen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Mar 2006 10:12:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/004020.php#comment-18703</guid>
		<description>Calling the English a nation of shopkeepers was probably the stupidest thing Napoleon said. The English are useless at keeping shops. That is why shops are kept by waves after waves of immigrants. I think he may have meant merchants, in which case he would have been right. 

There are some interesting points about the ongoing hatred of America, not least by Americans, paralleled by hatred of the Anglosphere, not least by people of the Anglosphere. Andrew Roberts in his &quot;Napoleon and Wellington&quot; has some interesting facts about the Whigs of the day and their worship of Napoleon. 

People do, indeed, forget about the &quot;green&quot; aspects of fascism/nazism and their hatred of what they thought of materialistic values, though they saw the advantage of those values to keep the people on their side. Communism, on the other hand, is devoted to materialistic values, which is why anti-American communist propaganda tends to be more confused or nuanced and the response to it has been rather more complex. 

There is the additional point that one of the reasons Europeans express contempt for America is because they see it as the land of religion. Confused?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Calling the English a nation of shopkeepers was probably the stupidest thing Napoleon said. The English are useless at keeping shops. That is why shops are kept by waves after waves of immigrants. I think he may have meant merchants, in which case he would have been right. </p>
<p>There are some interesting points about the ongoing hatred of America, not least by Americans, paralleled by hatred of the Anglosphere, not least by people of the Anglosphere. Andrew Roberts in his &#8220;Napoleon and Wellington&#8221; has some interesting facts about the Whigs of the day and their worship of Napoleon. </p>
<p>People do, indeed, forget about the &#8220;green&#8221; aspects of fascism/nazism and their hatred of what they thought of materialistic values, though they saw the advantage of those values to keep the people on their side. Communism, on the other hand, is devoted to materialistic values, which is why anti-American communist propaganda tends to be more confused or nuanced and the response to it has been rather more complex. </p>
<p>There is the additional point that one of the reasons Europeans express contempt for America is because they see it as the land of religion. Confused?</p>
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		<title>By: David Foster</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/4020.html/comment-page-1#comment-18702</link>
		<dc:creator>David Foster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Mar 2006 03:00:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/004020.php#comment-18702</guid>
		<description>&quot;Not necessarily in German,&quot; indeed. See what &lt;a href=&quot;http://photoncourier.blogspot.com/2003_04_01_photoncourier_archive.html#92262539&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;some American religious leaders were saying&lt;/a&gt; in the late 1930s and early 1940s.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Not necessarily in German,&#8221; indeed. See what <a href="http://photoncourier.blogspot.com/2003_04_01_photoncourier_archive.html#92262539" rel="nofollow">some American religious leaders were saying</a> in the late 1930s and early 1940s.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/4020.html/comment-page-1#comment-18701</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Mar 2006 02:02:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/004020.php#comment-18701</guid>
		<description>And England was a nation of shopkeepers. The virtues of open societies inspire contempt on the part of those societies&#039; enemies, who see the broken window pane but miss the sturdy house surrounding it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And England was a nation of shopkeepers. The virtues of open societies inspire contempt on the part of those societies&#8217; enemies, who see the broken window pane but miss the sturdy house surrounding it.</p>
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		<title>By: Lex</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/4020.html/comment-page-1#comment-18700</link>
		<dc:creator>Lex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Mar 2006 01:23:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/004020.php#comment-18700</guid>
		<description>&quot;... just made stuff...&quot; Like B-17s.  Lots of them.  And P-51s.  Lots of those, too.  The Germans have not made as much progress as they like to tell themselves.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;&#8230; just made stuff&#8230;&#8221; Like B-17s.  Lots of them.  And P-51s.  Lots of those, too.  The Germans have not made as much progress as they like to tell themselves.</p>
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		<title>By: Jay Manifold</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/4020.html/comment-page-1#comment-18699</link>
		<dc:creator>Jay Manifold</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Mar 2006 00:26:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/004020.php#comment-18699</guid>
		<description>&quot;And what is true of the leaders is even more true of the rank and file of the movement. The relative ease with which a young communist could be converted into a Nazi or vice versa was generally known in Germany, best of all to the propagandists of the two parties. Many a university teacher during the 1930&#039;s has seen English and American students return from the Continent uncertain whether they were communists or Nazis and certain only that they hated Western liberal civilization.&quot; -- F.A. Hayek</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;And what is true of the leaders is even more true of the rank and file of the movement. The relative ease with which a young communist could be converted into a Nazi or vice versa was generally known in Germany, best of all to the propagandists of the two parties. Many a university teacher during the 1930&#8242;s has seen English and American students return from the Continent uncertain whether they were communists or Nazis and certain only that they hated Western liberal civilization.&#8221; &#8212; F.A. Hayek</p>
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		<title>By: Shannon Love</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/4020.html/comment-page-1#comment-18698</link>
		<dc:creator>Shannon Love</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Mar 2006 22:23:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/004020.php#comment-18698</guid>
		<description>One thing missing from most people&#039;s understanding of Fascism is an appreciation of Fascist&#039;s contempt for materialism and commerce. They hated America largely because we didn&#039;t give a rat&#039;s ass about their supposed &quot;higher values&quot; but instead just made stuff.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One thing missing from most people&#8217;s understanding of Fascism is an appreciation of Fascist&#8217;s contempt for materialism and commerce. They hated America largely because we didn&#8217;t give a rat&#8217;s ass about their supposed &#8220;higher values&#8221; but instead just made stuff.</p>
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