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	<title>Comments on: The Collapse of Liberal Orders</title>
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	<description>Some Chicago Boyz know each other from student days at the University of Chicago. Others are Chicago boys in spirit. The blog name is also intended as a good-humored gesture of admiration for distinguished Chicago boys including those pictured above.</description>
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		<title>By: GFK</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/4351.html/comment-page-1#comment-21329</link>
		<dc:creator>GFK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Sep 2006 18:36:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/004351.php#comment-21329</guid>
		<description>Can we add Thailand&#039;s parliamentary government to liberal orders that failed because they did too little?


</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can we add Thailand&#8217;s parliamentary government to liberal orders that failed because they did too little?</p>
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		<title>By: Shannon Love</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/4351.html/comment-page-1#comment-21328</link>
		<dc:creator>Shannon Love</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Aug 2006 17:05:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/004351.php#comment-21328</guid>
		<description>palladin,

Both countries had functioning elected components to their governments. Both the Tsar and the Japanese emperor ruled under significant restraints of custom. Japan in particular saw a political flowering during the Taisho period 1912-1926 and into the early 30&#039;s. 

Neither place would a poster child for liberal orders but compared to the authoritarian orders that replaced them they certainly were. Both Russia and Japan saw decade long liberalization trends aborted by failures to maintain order and the subsequent collapse into brutal authoritarianism. 

I think they both fit the pattern that ineffectiveness and not over-effectiveness kills liberal orders.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>palladin,</p>
<p>Both countries had functioning elected components to their governments. Both the Tsar and the Japanese emperor ruled under significant restraints of custom. Japan in particular saw a political flowering during the Taisho period 1912-1926 and into the early 30&#8242;s. </p>
<p>Neither place would a poster child for liberal orders but compared to the authoritarian orders that replaced them they certainly were. Both Russia and Japan saw decade long liberalization trends aborted by failures to maintain order and the subsequent collapse into brutal authoritarianism. </p>
<p>I think they both fit the pattern that ineffectiveness and not over-effectiveness kills liberal orders.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: palladin</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/4351.html/comment-page-1#comment-21327</link>
		<dc:creator>palladin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Aug 2006 16:05:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/004351.php#comment-21327</guid>
		<description>In what way would japan or russia would qualify as part of the liberal order?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In what way would japan or russia would qualify as part of the liberal order?</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Schuler</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/4351.html/comment-page-1#comment-21326</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Schuler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Aug 2006 22:17:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/004351.php#comment-21326</guid>
		<description>Re:  terrorist attacks.  Russian anarchists AKA Bakuninists were known for such.  Our cartoon image of an anarchist (long black coat, cannon-ball shaped bomb) is derived from them.  Tsar Alexander II was assassinated by an anarchist suicide attack in 1881.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re:  terrorist attacks.  Russian anarchists AKA Bakuninists were known for such.  Our cartoon image of an anarchist (long black coat, cannon-ball shaped bomb) is derived from them.  Tsar Alexander II was assassinated by an anarchist suicide attack in 1881.</p>
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		<title>By: Marc Schulman</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/4351.html/comment-page-1#comment-21325</link>
		<dc:creator>Marc Schulman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Aug 2006 19:07:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/004351.php#comment-21325</guid>
		<description>A brilliant post.  Unfortunately, it will be ignored by those who need to read it the most: the deniers of denial.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A brilliant post.  Unfortunately, it will be ignored by those who need to read it the most: the deniers of denial.</p>
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		<title>By: Shannon  Love</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/4351.html/comment-page-1#comment-21324</link>
		<dc:creator>Shannon  Love</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Aug 2006 15:45:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/004351.php#comment-21324</guid>
		<description>Joshua,

&lt;i&gt;Also, it&#039;s a foregone conclusion that terrorist organizations will eventually find ways to defeat profiling.&lt;/i&gt;

They can try but it presents practical difficulties. The pool of potential suicide terrorist who could defeat a profile that included ethnicity is much smaller than the pool of potential terrorist who do fit the profile. Profiling reduces the freedom of action of terrorist and is therefor an effective tool.  

We routinely use profiles that include such taboo components as gender, race, economic class, education etc to catch serial killers and other criminals. Only in the case of terrorism does profiling suddenly become an irrationally bigoted technique. 

I think such attitude result largely from ignorance and intentional distortions about how profiling works. People routinely argue that profiling is &lt;i&gt;nothing but&lt;/i&gt; singling people out based on race or ethnicity. Its not and has never been.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joshua,</p>
<p><i>Also, it&#8217;s a foregone conclusion that terrorist organizations will eventually find ways to defeat profiling.</i></p>
<p>They can try but it presents practical difficulties. The pool of potential suicide terrorist who could defeat a profile that included ethnicity is much smaller than the pool of potential terrorist who do fit the profile. Profiling reduces the freedom of action of terrorist and is therefor an effective tool.  </p>
<p>We routinely use profiles that include such taboo components as gender, race, economic class, education etc to catch serial killers and other criminals. Only in the case of terrorism does profiling suddenly become an irrationally bigoted technique. </p>
<p>I think such attitude result largely from ignorance and intentional distortions about how profiling works. People routinely argue that profiling is <i>nothing but</i> singling people out based on race or ethnicity. Its not and has never been.</p>
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		<title>By: Joshua</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/4351.html/comment-page-1#comment-21323</link>
		<dc:creator>Joshua</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Aug 2006 15:02:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/004351.php#comment-21323</guid>
		<description>Also, it&#039;s a foregone conclusion that terrorist organizations will eventually find ways to defeat profiling. Indeed, given al Qaeda&#039;s recent turn toward recruiting native-born Americans and Britons,  profiling may already be on its way to obsolescence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also, it&#8217;s a foregone conclusion that terrorist organizations will eventually find ways to defeat profiling. Indeed, given al Qaeda&#8217;s recent turn toward recruiting native-born Americans and Britons,  profiling may already be on its way to obsolescence.</p>
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		<title>By: Alex</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/4351.html/comment-page-1#comment-21322</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Aug 2006 20:36:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/004351.php#comment-21322</guid>
		<description>I understand what you are saying about political correctness getting in the way, but I do indeed think profiling is wrong and will just create a bigger gap between different people groups.  Sometimes we do try too hard to not offend someone, but in some cases it is necessary.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I understand what you are saying about political correctness getting in the way, but I do indeed think profiling is wrong and will just create a bigger gap between different people groups.  Sometimes we do try too hard to not offend someone, but in some cases it is necessary.</p>
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		<title>By: TM Lutas</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/4351.html/comment-page-1#comment-21321</link>
		<dc:creator>TM Lutas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Aug 2006 16:25:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/004351.php#comment-21321</guid>
		<description>Liberal government governs best where it governs least. By the complexity of the legislative and regulatory code, modern liberal (socialist) governance both loses liberty directly through regulation but also loses effectiveness. 

If we were to shed a great deal of this regulatory state we would likely gain enough supervisory capability so that the state that was left remained sufficiently effective to stave off collapse and authoritarian fascism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Liberal government governs best where it governs least. By the complexity of the legislative and regulatory code, modern liberal (socialist) governance both loses liberty directly through regulation but also loses effectiveness. </p>
<p>If we were to shed a great deal of this regulatory state we would likely gain enough supervisory capability so that the state that was left remained sufficiently effective to stave off collapse and authoritarian fascism.</p>
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		<title>By: The Sanity Inspector</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/4351.html/comment-page-1#comment-21320</link>
		<dc:creator>The Sanity Inspector</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Aug 2006 13:35:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/004351.php#comment-21320</guid>
		<description>Nazism was rooted in race and the mythic past, whereas Marxism was class-based and looked towards the future.  Indeed, Wretchard over at The Belmont Club once said, very insightfully, &quot;The greatest apostasy in Marxist literature has always been to 
find value in the present.&quot;  For this and other reasons, Marxism had the enthusiastic support of upper-class Western intellectuals--and still does, with many willfully ignorant diehards.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nazism was rooted in race and the mythic past, whereas Marxism was class-based and looked towards the future.  Indeed, Wretchard over at The Belmont Club once said, very insightfully, &#8220;The greatest apostasy in Marxist literature has always been to<br />
find value in the present.&#8221;  For this and other reasons, Marxism had the enthusiastic support of upper-class Western intellectuals&#8211;and still does, with many willfully ignorant diehards.</p>
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		<title>By: Shannon Love</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/4351.html/comment-page-1#comment-21319</link>
		<dc:creator>Shannon Love</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Aug 2006 12:47:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/004351.php#comment-21319</guid>
		<description>tom bri

&lt;i&gt;There were a few terrorist groups prior to the 60s.&lt;/i&gt;

Pre-60&#039;s and post-60&#039;s terrorist differed in that the pre-60 seldom, if ever, targeted &lt;i&gt;random&lt;/i&gt; members of a broad population. 

Anarchist attempted to assassinate specific government officials or to attack specific economic infrastructure. They sought to minimize collateral causalities in the general population. The KKK or unionist killing scrabs is probably the closest America has even seen random terror but even those groups tended to target individuals. The KKK didn&#039;t attack african-americans randomly. They usually had some warped rational for targeting a specific person. 

Contemporary terrorism is so dangerous and so hard to protect against specifically because they target populations of millions seeking to kill random members of that population. That has never really happened before. It started with PLO attacks on homes, businesses and schools in the mid-60 and with the Shining path in Peru. These style of attacks raised the groups profiles but since the Soviet Union was behind the vast majority of terrorism in 60&#039;s and 70&#039;s they kept such groups on a leash and prevented the rapid escalation to mass-casuality attacks. Mass-casualty (or perhaps maximum casualty) attacks really began with the Iranian revolution. As an nation at odds with both power blocks they had no incentive to keep casualties down. They started killing as many as possible in Lebanon and it just spread from there. When the Soviet Union collapsed no restraint remained and the Islamist terrorist discovered that the more people they killed the greater their income, profile and influence became.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>tom bri</p>
<p><i>There were a few terrorist groups prior to the 60s.</i></p>
<p>Pre-60&#8242;s and post-60&#8242;s terrorist differed in that the pre-60 seldom, if ever, targeted <i>random</i> members of a broad population. </p>
<p>Anarchist attempted to assassinate specific government officials or to attack specific economic infrastructure. They sought to minimize collateral causalities in the general population. The KKK or unionist killing scrabs is probably the closest America has even seen random terror but even those groups tended to target individuals. The KKK didn&#8217;t attack african-americans randomly. They usually had some warped rational for targeting a specific person. </p>
<p>Contemporary terrorism is so dangerous and so hard to protect against specifically because they target populations of millions seeking to kill random members of that population. That has never really happened before. It started with PLO attacks on homes, businesses and schools in the mid-60 and with the Shining path in Peru. These style of attacks raised the groups profiles but since the Soviet Union was behind the vast majority of terrorism in 60&#8242;s and 70&#8242;s they kept such groups on a leash and prevented the rapid escalation to mass-casuality attacks. Mass-casualty (or perhaps maximum casualty) attacks really began with the Iranian revolution. As an nation at odds with both power blocks they had no incentive to keep casualties down. They started killing as many as possible in Lebanon and it just spread from there. When the Soviet Union collapsed no restraint remained and the Islamist terrorist discovered that the more people they killed the greater their income, profile and influence became.</p>
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		<title>By: mark safranski</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/4351.html/comment-page-1#comment-21318</link>
		<dc:creator>mark safranski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Aug 2006 03:36:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/004351.php#comment-21318</guid>
		<description>&quot;Anyone know of other examples?&quot;

The FALN attempted to assassinate President Truman and shot up the floor of the U.S. Congress in the late 1940&#039;s.

The late 19th century saw the Molly Maguires as well as anarchists. Also related would be Comittees of Vigilance, White Leagues and in the late Colonial era, backcountry &quot; Regulators&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Anyone know of other examples?&#8221;</p>
<p>The FALN attempted to assassinate President Truman and shot up the floor of the U.S. Congress in the late 1940&#8242;s.</p>
<p>The late 19th century saw the Molly Maguires as well as anarchists. Also related would be Comittees of Vigilance, White Leagues and in the late Colonial era, backcountry &#8221; Regulators&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: stevesh</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/4351.html/comment-page-1#comment-21317</link>
		<dc:creator>stevesh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Aug 2006 02:54:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/004351.php#comment-21317</guid>
		<description>Forgive the slight divergence of(f) topic but, UofChi probably excepted, has anyone seen an undergrad course curriculum these days that carries a concentration on Burke (much less a smattering of R. Kirk)?  Ortega y Gasset?

Edmund and Jose need a blog carnival or something.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Forgive the slight divergence of(f) topic but, UofChi probably excepted, has anyone seen an undergrad course curriculum these days that carries a concentration on Burke (much less a smattering of R. Kirk)?  Ortega y Gasset?</p>
<p>Edmund and Jose need a blog carnival or something.</p>
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		<title>By: tom bri</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/4351.html/comment-page-1#comment-21316</link>
		<dc:creator>tom bri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Aug 2006 01:09:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/004351.php#comment-21316</guid>
		<description>There were a few terrorist groups prior to the 60s. The anarchists lit off bombs now and then in Britain and America in the teens and twenties. Anyone know of other examples?

The KKK certainly used terrorist tactics, but their goals were quite different from modern terrorists.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There were a few terrorist groups prior to the 60s. The anarchists lit off bombs now and then in Britain and America in the teens and twenties. Anyone know of other examples?</p>
<p>The KKK certainly used terrorist tactics, but their goals were quite different from modern terrorists.</p>
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		<title>By: mark safranski</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/4351.html/comment-page-1#comment-21315</link>
		<dc:creator>mark safranski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Aug 2006 00:48:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/004351.php#comment-21315</guid>
		<description>GFK wrote:
&quot;David Foster, hate to nitpick, but I don&#039;t like seeing the Nazi&#039;s (who were socialists) referred to as &quot;the right.&quot; 

The Nazis were socialists. They were also, in their own opinion, revolutionaries. The Nazis were also on the far Right of the German political spectrum, acknowledged as such by all the other political parties in the Reichstag.

These qualities are not mutually exclusive in a European, and in particular, a German, historical context. State socialism has a Right-wing as well as Left-wing tradition in Europe.

Great post BTW !</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>GFK wrote:<br />
&#8220;David Foster, hate to nitpick, but I don&#8217;t like seeing the Nazi&#8217;s (who were socialists) referred to as &#8220;the right.&#8221; </p>
<p>The Nazis were socialists. They were also, in their own opinion, revolutionaries. The Nazis were also on the far Right of the German political spectrum, acknowledged as such by all the other political parties in the Reichstag.</p>
<p>These qualities are not mutually exclusive in a European, and in particular, a German, historical context. State socialism has a Right-wing as well as Left-wing tradition in Europe.</p>
<p>Great post BTW !</p>
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		<title>By: veryretired</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/4351.html/comment-page-1#comment-21314</link>
		<dc:creator>veryretired</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Aug 2006 23:12:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/004351.php#comment-21314</guid>
		<description>Mr. Foster,

I disagree with your characterization of marxism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Foster,</p>
<p>I disagree with your characterization of marxism.</p>
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		<title>By: david foster</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/4351.html/comment-page-1#comment-21313</link>
		<dc:creator>david foster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Aug 2006 22:22:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/004351.php#comment-21313</guid>
		<description>GFK...it&#039;s true that the Nazis favored strong controls over the economy; however, they differed substantially from the Marxists in the social factors they believed were important. Whereas Marxism was a bastard child of the Enlightenment, Naziism was a reaction to the Enlightenment. Naziism sought an archaic culture in which violence was a positive value; it valued economic development primarily because of its usefulness in warfare. In theoretical Marxism (as opposed to practical Marxism) violence was only a means to an end, not a value in itself, and economic development was a supreme goal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>GFK&#8230;it&#8217;s true that the Nazis favored strong controls over the economy; however, they differed substantially from the Marxists in the social factors they believed were important. Whereas Marxism was a bastard child of the Enlightenment, Naziism was a reaction to the Enlightenment. Naziism sought an archaic culture in which violence was a positive value; it valued economic development primarily because of its usefulness in warfare. In theoretical Marxism (as opposed to practical Marxism) violence was only a means to an end, not a value in itself, and economic development was a supreme goal.</p>
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		<title>By: GFK</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/4351.html/comment-page-1#comment-21312</link>
		<dc:creator>GFK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Aug 2006 21:47:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/004351.php#comment-21312</guid>
		<description>Shannon, another great post.  Your 3rd paragraph reminds me how breifly and succinctly you manage to communicate powerful and sweeping ideas.  Quite a skill.

David Foster,  hate to nitpick, but I don&#039;t like seeing the Nazi&#039;s (who were socialists) referred to as &quot;the right.&quot;  

Hayek pointed out in &quot;The Road to Serfdom&quot; that it wasn&#039;t the right vs. the left in Germany, but the left vs. the left.  The right had already been vanquished when the leftist factions turned on each other in their competition for power.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shannon, another great post.  Your 3rd paragraph reminds me how breifly and succinctly you manage to communicate powerful and sweeping ideas.  Quite a skill.</p>
<p>David Foster,  hate to nitpick, but I don&#8217;t like seeing the Nazi&#8217;s (who were socialists) referred to as &#8220;the right.&#8221;  </p>
<p>Hayek pointed out in &#8220;The Road to Serfdom&#8221; that it wasn&#8217;t the right vs. the left in Germany, but the left vs. the left.  The right had already been vanquished when the leftist factions turned on each other in their competition for power.</p>
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		<title>By: Lex</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/4351.html/comment-page-1#comment-21311</link>
		<dc:creator>Lex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Aug 2006 18:42:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/004351.php#comment-21311</guid>
		<description>Shannon, I think this applies to the period prior to the French Revolution, as well.  The State was going broke and was unable to provide the basic functions necessary.  Also, in the run-up to the Spanish Civil War, it was the government&#039;s inability to crack down on politically motivated violence that led to the civil war.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shannon, I think this applies to the period prior to the French Revolution, as well.  The State was going broke and was unable to provide the basic functions necessary.  Also, in the run-up to the Spanish Civil War, it was the government&#8217;s inability to crack down on politically motivated violence that led to the civil war.</p>
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		<title>By: veryretired</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/4351.html/comment-page-1#comment-21310</link>
		<dc:creator>veryretired</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Aug 2006 17:26:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/004351.php#comment-21310</guid>
		<description>Those who point to firmness and strength in response to Islamic terror as a danger miss the boat in two ways.

First, as you point out, it is continuing disorder and chaos that invites authoritarian reactions, not a calmly determined response which takes clear measures to reduce a threat.

Secondly, and even more importantly in my view, the doomsayers consistently underestimate the stubborness and dogged insistence of Americans in regards to their rights. 

As an obvious example, consider the fact that our society was never more regimented at any time in its history than it was at the end of WW2. Millions in uniform, most industry controlled for the war effort, rationing, emergency powers granted to the state, etc., etc.

And yet, within a few years, the military was hugely decreased, many controls lifted, fleets mothballed, and, by the 1960&#039;s, we were launched into the counter-cultural movement which, for good and bad, was based on the idea that everyone should live their life as they see fit.

The state is definitely out of control as regards the massive entitlement programs it has undertaken, and the amount of money and bother it costs the average US private business and worker to conform to numerous regulations for dubious and elusive benefits. 

However, these onerous controls are the very ones most of the &quot;the sky is falling&quot; crowd not only don&#039;t oppose, but ask for more of on a regular basis. Whatever their ultimate purpose truly is, the increased safety and freedom of the American public is not high on the agenda.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Those who point to firmness and strength in response to Islamic terror as a danger miss the boat in two ways.</p>
<p>First, as you point out, it is continuing disorder and chaos that invites authoritarian reactions, not a calmly determined response which takes clear measures to reduce a threat.</p>
<p>Secondly, and even more importantly in my view, the doomsayers consistently underestimate the stubborness and dogged insistence of Americans in regards to their rights. </p>
<p>As an obvious example, consider the fact that our society was never more regimented at any time in its history than it was at the end of WW2. Millions in uniform, most industry controlled for the war effort, rationing, emergency powers granted to the state, etc., etc.</p>
<p>And yet, within a few years, the military was hugely decreased, many controls lifted, fleets mothballed, and, by the 1960&#8242;s, we were launched into the counter-cultural movement which, for good and bad, was based on the idea that everyone should live their life as they see fit.</p>
<p>The state is definitely out of control as regards the massive entitlement programs it has undertaken, and the amount of money and bother it costs the average US private business and worker to conform to numerous regulations for dubious and elusive benefits. </p>
<p>However, these onerous controls are the very ones most of the &#8220;the sky is falling&#8221; crowd not only don&#8217;t oppose, but ask for more of on a regular basis. Whatever their ultimate purpose truly is, the increased safety and freedom of the American public is not high on the agenda.</p>
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