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	<title>Comments on: Ward-Perkins &#8212; The Fall of Rome and the End of Civilization</title>
	<atom:link href="http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/4376.html/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/4376.html</link>
	<description>Some Chicago Boyz know each other from student days at the University of Chicago. Others are Chicago boys in spirit. The blog name is also intended as a good-humored gesture of admiration for distinguished Chicago boys including those pictured above.</description>
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		<title>By: Russ Mitchell</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/4376.html/comment-page-1#comment-21175</link>
		<dc:creator>Russ Mitchell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Sep 2006 15:13:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/004376.php#comment-21175</guid>
		<description>This is a nice review, sufficient to motivate me to buy the book.  But are you sure one set of convenient narratives isn&#039;t being tossed out in favor of another?  

Don&#039;t get me wrong:  I have railed against the EU at length in smoky Central European basements to Eastern Europeans intent on signing up... but blaming the EU and momumentalist German historiography is one thing... utterly ignoring the existence of the Pirenne Thesis in order to do so, as if the whole notion of Late Antiquity had merely sprung from the head of an EU-crat (perhaps Belgium is the common factor?), is another matter entirely.

Can&#039;t wait to read the book... but the &quot;Late Antiquity&quot; argument stands on firmer ground than one might think reading this review.

/decidedly non-squishy medieval milhist guy
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a nice review, sufficient to motivate me to buy the book.  But are you sure one set of convenient narratives isn&#8217;t being tossed out in favor of another?  </p>
<p>Don&#8217;t get me wrong:  I have railed against the EU at length in smoky Central European basements to Eastern Europeans intent on signing up&#8230; but blaming the EU and momumentalist German historiography is one thing&#8230; utterly ignoring the existence of the Pirenne Thesis in order to do so, as if the whole notion of Late Antiquity had merely sprung from the head of an EU-crat (perhaps Belgium is the common factor?), is another matter entirely.</p>
<p>Can&#8217;t wait to read the book&#8230; but the &#8220;Late Antiquity&#8221; argument stands on firmer ground than one might think reading this review.</p>
<p>/decidedly non-squishy medieval milhist guy</p>
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		<title>By: Don</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/4376.html/comment-page-1#comment-21174</link>
		<dc:creator>Don</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Aug 2006 23:20:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/004376.php#comment-21174</guid>
		<description></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When the Chinese would get their act and resources together, they would kick the respective posteriors of the Central Asian nomads back from their borders. That in turn would start a domino effect of one group of tribes pushing the next group ever westward. They in turn would reach the Goths and Slavs who in turn would kick someone else further westward. It was much more fun doing it to someone else than getting it done to you.  That’s the core of the problem for the Empire. It was at the end of the line. </p>
<p>However, a compounding factor that usually doesn’t get as much attention as imperial administration and policies, the financial state of the empire, or the population crunch, is the changing effect of climate upon the situation. The last Little Ice age before the Medieval warming period and Big Chill, dovetails with the ‘Dark Ages’ along with the arrival into the neighborhood of the uninvited overbearing guests, who decide to make the visit permanent. Two big blows upon the long great prosperous period of the Mediterranean centric based civilization from which it will require a ‘re-birth’ to get rolling again.</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/4376.html/comment-page-1#comment-21173</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Aug 2006 14:44:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/004376.php#comment-21173</guid>
		<description>The British Empire was the Boston Chicken of empires - they were already over-extended in their franchises well before WWII, and were planning in the 1930s to start the process giving back India by 1948. Their decline looks precipitous because WWII forced the issue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The British Empire was the Boston Chicken of empires &#8211; they were already over-extended in their franchises well before WWII, and were planning in the 1930s to start the process giving back India by 1948. Their decline looks precipitous because WWII forced the issue.</p>
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		<title>By: Lex</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/4376.html/comment-page-1#comment-21172</link>
		<dc:creator>Lex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Aug 2006 13:37:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/004376.php#comment-21172</guid>
		<description>&quot;L Sprague de Camp&#039;s _Lest Darkness Fall_?&quot;

A classic, of course.  The basic idea of the book is that human action matters and that contingency matters and that the &quot;deep forces of history&quot; can be channelled into one course or another depending on what people actually do.  I agree completely with this interpretation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;L Sprague de Camp&#8217;s _Lest Darkness Fall_?&#8221;</p>
<p>A classic, of course.  The basic idea of the book is that human action matters and that contingency matters and that the &#8220;deep forces of history&#8221; can be channelled into one course or another depending on what people actually do.  I agree completely with this interpretation.</p>
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		<title>By: Phil Fraering</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/4376.html/comment-page-1#comment-21171</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil Fraering</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Aug 2006 04:10:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/004376.php#comment-21171</guid>
		<description>Since someone else has already brought up science fiction, I feel free to ask: what do y&#039;all think of L Sprague de Camp&#039;s _Lest Darkness Fall_?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Since someone else has already brought up science fiction, I feel free to ask: what do y&#8217;all think of L Sprague de Camp&#8217;s _Lest Darkness Fall_?</p>
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		<title>By: Andrewdb</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/4376.html/comment-page-1#comment-21170</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrewdb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Aug 2006 03:59:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/004376.php#comment-21170</guid>
		<description>It bears repeating - &quot;Romans of the western empire could not have imagined in the year 400 that their way of life would be totally lost within 75 years&quot;

Furgeson&#039;s book &quot;Empire&quot; pointed out (to me at least) that the entire British Empire went from top of the heap to dust bin of history in about 20 to 25 years.

Eternal vigilence, indeed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It bears repeating &#8211; &#8220;Romans of the western empire could not have imagined in the year 400 that their way of life would be totally lost within 75 years&#8221;</p>
<p>Furgeson&#8217;s book &#8220;Empire&#8221; pointed out (to me at least) that the entire British Empire went from top of the heap to dust bin of history in about 20 to 25 years.</p>
<p>Eternal vigilence, indeed.</p>
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		<title>By: Lex</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/4376.html/comment-page-1#comment-21169</link>
		<dc:creator>Lex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Aug 2006 02:32:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/004376.php#comment-21169</guid>
		<description>Bartlett&#039;s conclusion:

&quot;...the fall of Rome was fundamentally due to economic deterioration resulting from excessive taxation, inflation, and over-regulation. &quot;

Wrong.

This post and James&#039; previous one show that the fall of Rome was due to the failure of military defense on the borders.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bartlett&#8217;s conclusion:</p>
<p>&#8220;&#8230;the fall of Rome was fundamentally due to economic deterioration resulting from excessive taxation, inflation, and over-regulation. &#8221;</p>
<p>Wrong.</p>
<p>This post and James&#8217; previous one show that the fall of Rome was due to the failure of military defense on the borders.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/4376.html/comment-page-1#comment-21168</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Aug 2006 02:22:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/004376.php#comment-21168</guid>
		<description>Why does the current era begin with the birth of Christ?  Outrageously bigoted.  Let&#039;s start it in, oh I dunno, maybe &quot;September&quot; &quot;22&quot; &quot;1792&quot;.  And why do we privilege these moldy old pagan gods in our months and days?  It&#039;s completely unfair to non-pagans.  Why not completely objective  names like Messidor, Thermidor, Fructidor, and so on for the months, and primidi, duodi, tridi, etc. for the days?  And of course the whole thing should be decimalized.  It&#039;d be so worth doing!  After all, let&#039;s not forget that social justice is at stake.

(Sigh...)

Sledgehammer sarcasm aside, another good take on the Roman collapse from a libertarian perspective can be found &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.cato.org/pubs/journal/cjv14n2-7.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why does the current era begin with the birth of Christ?  Outrageously bigoted.  Let&#8217;s start it in, oh I dunno, maybe &#8220;September&#8221; &#8220;22&#8243; &#8220;1792&#8243;.  And why do we privilege these moldy old pagan gods in our months and days?  It&#8217;s completely unfair to non-pagans.  Why not completely objective  names like Messidor, Thermidor, Fructidor, and so on for the months, and primidi, duodi, tridi, etc. for the days?  And of course the whole thing should be decimalized.  It&#8217;d be so worth doing!  After all, let&#8217;s not forget that social justice is at stake.</p>
<p>(Sigh&#8230;)</p>
<p>Sledgehammer sarcasm aside, another good take on the Roman collapse from a libertarian perspective can be found <a href="http://www.cato.org/pubs/journal/cjv14n2-7.html" rel="nofollow">here</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: James McCormick</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/4376.html/comment-page-1#comment-21167</link>
		<dc:creator>James McCormick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Aug 2006 19:23:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/004376.php#comment-21167</guid>
		<description>Dear GFK,

Using CE is a habit I&#039;m trying to acquire late in life. It seems more appropriate for public conversations about history where the entire world is reading, and the entire world, now, has a &quot;dog in the fight.&quot; All faiths welcome.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear GFK,</p>
<p>Using CE is a habit I&#8217;m trying to acquire late in life. It seems more appropriate for public conversations about history where the entire world is reading, and the entire world, now, has a &#8220;dog in the fight.&#8221; All faiths welcome.</p>
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		<title>By: GFK</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/4376.html/comment-page-1#comment-21166</link>
		<dc:creator>GFK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Aug 2006 15:24:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/004376.php#comment-21166</guid>
		<description>James,

I&#039;m curious as to the reason you personally use CE in place of AD?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>James,</p>
<p>I&#8217;m curious as to the reason you personally use CE in place of AD?</p>
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		<title>By: Consul-At-Arms</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/4376.html/comment-page-1#comment-21165</link>
		<dc:creator>Consul-At-Arms</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Aug 2006 14:57:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/004376.php#comment-21165</guid>
		<description>So there&#039;s another book destined for my must-read stack.

I&#039;m wondering if S.M. Sterling has been reading this stuff as he writes his &#039;Dies The Fire&#039; series.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So there&#8217;s another book destined for my must-read stack.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m wondering if S.M. Sterling has been reading this stuff as he writes his &#8216;Dies The Fire&#8217; series.</p>
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		<title>By: Ginny</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/4376.html/comment-page-1#comment-21164</link>
		<dc:creator>Ginny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Aug 2006 13:39:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/004376.php#comment-21164</guid>
		<description>Thank you.  This was immensely interesting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you.  This was immensely interesting.</p>
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		<title>By: Lex</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/4376.html/comment-page-1#comment-21163</link>
		<dc:creator>Lex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Aug 2006 12:23:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www390.pair.com/chicagob/blog/004376.php#comment-21163</guid>
		<description>James, thank you for this.  Much food for thought here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>James, thank you for this.  Much food for thought here.</p>
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