Comments on: Returning to a Hobby Horse I’ve Ridden Hard

By: Ginny

Ginny — Fri, 07 Dec 2007 03:40:33 +0000

MDC,
Well, an argument that concludes by arguing that right-of-center people are terrified of death is one of those interesting observations that are, of course, impossible to prove or disprove. I don’t consider it a very interesting argument, although that you see other’s choices as “actively dangerous to humanity’s continued existence” tells us something about your understanding. On a purely factual level, have you much sense of current demography?
That you would see the life force as felt only in terms of what is politically acceptable and what is not is also interesting, but means your understanding of human nature and history is politicized in a relatively limiting way. If I considered immortality the way that you do, then you would win the argument. Of course, I don’t. That you consider “brokering peace” or “finding a cure for cancer” as opposed to (as well as transcending) familial roles defines these in a different way than I would. You seem to see parenthood as the choice of those who have failed to succeed in other ways. Again, I have my doubts that is why and how most make the choice they do. It is true that parents often talk about and think in terms of their children. To a childless adult, this may seem a vicarious life. But some of us find thinking of others and hoping for the best for them richly fulfilling. It is, of course, hard for one person to see what is within another and so we often project onto them our own feelings.
You have made your choice, prompted I assume by the political and the way you envision your life. If you are comfortable and happy with it, that is fine. Others define the world and make their choices in other ways. And some of us observe that world with horizons a bit wider than those of 2007.

By: MDC

MDC — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 20:03:28 +0000

Has it occurred to you, Ginny, that “honoring the sexuality of the procreative woman” isn’t that big a deal anymore because (a) it’s now politically acceptable (at least in some places) for us women who don’t want to do the whole motherhood trip to admit same, and (b), more importantly, because this big ball of dirt we live on has enough people on it already?

Shakespeare’s sonnets argue that our immortality is ensured by our children and our art. He is often witty and often ironic, but, of course, he is also often right.

Your children aren’t going to ensure your “immortality.” How many people know the first names of their great-great-grandparents? In this childfree woman’s opinion, a lot of people reproduce because they have no idea what else they might do with their lives. Can’t cure cancer or broker peace between nations yourself? Have kids, pin all your frustrated ambitions on them, and live vicariously through them.

Death is part of life. In my opinion, right-of-center people are terrified of death, which is why they cling to religious and procreative dogma that are not only obsolete but actively dangerous to humanity’s continued existence.

By: renminbi

renminbi — Mon, 03 Dec 2007 00:28:19 +0000

FWIW, those who like Mark Helprin might want to read “A Soldier of the Great War”.

By: Ginny

Ginny — Sun, 02 Dec 2007 03:30:21 +0000

David,
We both return & I liked that essay you link to, then & now – but then, I suspect we return to it because it’s important in ways we may not yet understand. And, of course, you are right about Adams – it always seems strange to me so I should have remembered – you’d think they’d be noisy.

By: David Foster

David Foster — Sun, 02 Dec 2007 01:45:32 +0000

These thoughts by Mark Helprin (which I’ve linked here before) would seem relevant to this post:

Art, Discomfort, and Dehumanization

Also, it’s probably just a nit, but you say (re Henry Adams)–”No longer honoring the sexuality of procreative woman but turning to the harsh noise of the dynamo”–part of Adams’ point about the dynamo was specifically that it was *not* noisy:

“The planet itself seemed less impressive, in its old-fashioned, deliberate, annual or daily revolution, than this huge wheel, revolving within arm’s length at some vertiginous speed, and barely murmuring — scarcely humming an audible warning to stand a hair’s-breadth further for respect of power — while it would not wake the baby lying close against its frame. Before the end, one began to pray to it; inherited instinct taught the natural expression of man before silent and infinite force.”

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Sun, 02 Dec 2007 01:40:42 +0000

Interesting but hardly making a strong case. Little mother-child involvement in this. Joseph Hill's useful comment.