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	<title>Comments on: The Return of the Risk Premium</title>
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	<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/6070.html</link>
	<description>Some Chicago Boyz know each other from student days at the University of Chicago. Others are Chicago boys in spirit. The blog name is also intended as a good-humored gesture of admiration for distinguished Chicago boys including those pictured above.</description>
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		<title>By: Ekonomix</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/6070.html/comment-page-1#comment-260921</link>
		<dc:creator>Ekonomix</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Aug 2008 18:25:14 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>How about inflation premium? CPI is 5.6% and yields are below 4%!!

Ekonomix
&lt;a href=&quot;http://turkeconomy.blogspot.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://turkeconomy.blogspot.com/&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How about inflation premium? CPI is 5.6% and yields are below 4%!!</p>
<p>Ekonomix<br />
<a href="http://turkeconomy.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">http://turkeconomy.blogspot.com/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Robert Schwartz</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/6070.html/comment-page-1#comment-260631</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Schwartz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Aug 2008 20:41:51 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Right now the biggest anomaly in the bond market is that municipals are trading flat to treasuries. Normally, with the 10 yr Treasury at 3.8% we would expect to see good quality municipals at 2.7%, because their interest is tax free. Right now, 10 yr. munis are trading at 3.8%. &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.bloomberg.com/markets/rates/index.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Bloomberg News Page&lt;/a&gt;.

This represents a good hedge against the victory of &quot;Soak-the-Rich&quot; Democrats. I would expect the more normal relationship between taxable and tax free investments to return as the market wends its way out of this crisis. Even more so if worse comes to worst in November. (see the intrade box on the left side of this page for the odds on that). If rates stay where they are, a profit may be made. If they go up, you may have a hedge.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Right now the biggest anomaly in the bond market is that municipals are trading flat to treasuries. Normally, with the 10 yr Treasury at 3.8% we would expect to see good quality municipals at 2.7%, because their interest is tax free. Right now, 10 yr. munis are trading at 3.8%. <a href="http://www.bloomberg.com/markets/rates/index.html" rel="nofollow">Bloomberg News Page</a>.</p>
<p>This represents a good hedge against the victory of &#8220;Soak-the-Rich&#8221; Democrats. I would expect the more normal relationship between taxable and tax free investments to return as the market wends its way out of this crisis. Even more so if worse comes to worst in November. (see the intrade box on the left side of this page for the odds on that). If rates stay where they are, a profit may be made. If they go up, you may have a hedge.</p>
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		<title>By: jdm</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/6070.html/comment-page-1#comment-260393</link>
		<dc:creator>jdm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Aug 2008 15:06:52 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Good points. Thanks.

&lt;i&gt;The most difficult part for investors is that debt has a long time horizon, so if the company is losing money now, why will it turn around in the future? Is the company even viable?
&lt;/i&gt;

Interesting comment in light of the quote above about &quot;highly rated financial institutions&quot; like Amex ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good points. Thanks.</p>
<p><i>The most difficult part for investors is that debt has a long time horizon, so if the company is losing money now, why will it turn around in the future? Is the company even viable?<br />
</i></p>
<p>Interesting comment in light of the quote above about &#8220;highly rated financial institutions&#8221; like Amex ;-)</p>
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		<title>By: Carl from Chicago</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/6070.html/comment-page-1#comment-260390</link>
		<dc:creator>Carl from Chicago</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Aug 2008 14:52:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=6070#comment-260390</guid>
		<description>Note that I said that companies generally wouldn&#039;t own up to specific losses at the time that they were raising capital; they would likely use other justifications such as 1) replacing higher cost debt with lower cost debt 2) &quot;liquidity&quot; 3) other corporate purposes.

The sequence of events is indeed quite backwards.  You are essentially financing a past loss and you now have to earn enough money to pay off the loss plus interest.

Basically funds in the door from operations, sale of debt, sale of stock, sales of parts of the business, etc... isn&#039;t &quot;earmarked&quot; for specific operations.  It all goes against the overall cash flow of the business.  When you have a lot of losses, then your cash goes against the losses and you have to raise money from somewhere (investors, other businesses if you sell part of your business, customers, etc..) and then the debt is part of this pot.

The most difficult part for investors is that debt has a long time horizon, so if the company is losing money now, why will it turn around in the future?  Is the company even viable?

Another complex part of the question is that people don&#039;t KNOW about losses in these financial assets in a concrete way.  There are assets that MIGHT go bad, such as a particular type of loan, or it might not.  When everything was fine in 2005-6 no one was really thinking everything was going to go bust, but now the sentiment is much darker, and they need to look at those assets again in a new light.

Many of the &quot;knuckleheads&quot; are not around anymore.  One nice part of our financial system is that due to quarterly reporting they have to come clean and most of the heads of these major banks are gone.  If you look at &quot;all posts for Carl from Chicago&quot; you can see my post on quarterly reporting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Note that I said that companies generally wouldn&#8217;t own up to specific losses at the time that they were raising capital; they would likely use other justifications such as 1) replacing higher cost debt with lower cost debt 2) &#8220;liquidity&#8221; 3) other corporate purposes.</p>
<p>The sequence of events is indeed quite backwards.  You are essentially financing a past loss and you now have to earn enough money to pay off the loss plus interest.</p>
<p>Basically funds in the door from operations, sale of debt, sale of stock, sales of parts of the business, etc&#8230; isn&#8217;t &#8220;earmarked&#8221; for specific operations.  It all goes against the overall cash flow of the business.  When you have a lot of losses, then your cash goes against the losses and you have to raise money from somewhere (investors, other businesses if you sell part of your business, customers, etc..) and then the debt is part of this pot.</p>
<p>The most difficult part for investors is that debt has a long time horizon, so if the company is losing money now, why will it turn around in the future?  Is the company even viable?</p>
<p>Another complex part of the question is that people don&#8217;t KNOW about losses in these financial assets in a concrete way.  There are assets that MIGHT go bad, such as a particular type of loan, or it might not.  When everything was fine in 2005-6 no one was really thinking everything was going to go bust, but now the sentiment is much darker, and they need to look at those assets again in a new light.</p>
<p>Many of the &#8220;knuckleheads&#8221; are not around anymore.  One nice part of our financial system is that due to quarterly reporting they have to come clean and most of the heads of these major banks are gone.  If you look at &#8220;all posts for Carl from Chicago&#8221; you can see my post on quarterly reporting.</p>
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		<title>By: jdm</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/6070.html/comment-page-1#comment-260386</link>
		<dc:creator>jdm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Aug 2008 14:38:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=6070#comment-260386</guid>
		<description>This is a very interesting post and I agree with the points, but I have a question.

Raising capital to pay for pending/expected losses seems odd, but isn&#039;t it just that the sequence of events is backwards? I mean, if the company issues bonds to invest in the business and that investment fails miserably, doesn&#039;t the company, in essence, have a loss to be paid off? Or in fact, was paid off prior to the loss?

Personally, if I was buying debt and I was covering for losses, I would like to know why those losses occurred and if the knuckleheads behind them are still hanging around.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a very interesting post and I agree with the points, but I have a question.</p>
<p>Raising capital to pay for pending/expected losses seems odd, but isn&#8217;t it just that the sequence of events is backwards? I mean, if the company issues bonds to invest in the business and that investment fails miserably, doesn&#8217;t the company, in essence, have a loss to be paid off? Or in fact, was paid off prior to the loss?</p>
<p>Personally, if I was buying debt and I was covering for losses, I would like to know why those losses occurred and if the knuckleheads behind them are still hanging around.</p>
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		<title>By: Shannon Love</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/6070.html/comment-page-1#comment-260128</link>
		<dc:creator>Shannon Love</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Aug 2008 21:26:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=6070#comment-260128</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;I would once again extremely caution anyone that is buying debt from an institution that basically plans to use this money to pay off losses that it already has occurred…&lt;/i&gt;

Yea, my poker buddies aren&#039;t to keen on that either.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I would once again extremely caution anyone that is buying debt from an institution that basically plans to use this money to pay off losses that it already has occurred…</i></p>
<p>Yea, my poker buddies aren&#8217;t to keen on that either.</p>
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