Comments on: Re. Shannon’s Obama’s Misunderstanding http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/6218.html Some Chicago Boyz know each other from student days at the University of Chicago. Others are Chicago boys in spirit. The blog name is also intended as a good-humored gesture of admiration for distinguished Chicago boys including those pictured above. Mon, 13 Feb 2012 13:24:53 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.4 By: Helen http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/6218.html/comment-page-1#comment-268405 Helen Mon, 15 Sep 2008 10:40:06 +0000 http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=6218#comment-268405 Dr Johnson is supposed to have said that patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel but I don't suppose he meant that all patriotism was bad. Patriotism or nationalism are not good or bad in themselves any more than nation states are virtuous or not virtuous in themselves. It is what you do with these concepts that matters. We have to produce these arguments over and over again when we are told that all nationalism except the one that is being built up by the European Union for a European identity is bad and will necessarily lead to a Nazi system and concentration camps. Funnily enough, none of those people like to discuss the international and, indeed, supranational Communist system that also led to concentration camps. Though it is true that from 1941 on Stalin used nationalism and patriotism as he realized that people are unlikely to fight for the glory of Communism though they will for Mother Russia. That was very convoluted but it is an agreement for those who say patriotism or nationalism does not equal Hitler or Nazism. Dr Johnson is supposed to have said that patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel but I don’t suppose he meant that all patriotism was bad. Patriotism or nationalism are not good or bad in themselves any more than nation states are virtuous or not virtuous in themselves. It is what you do with these concepts that matters.

We have to produce these arguments over and over again when we are told that all nationalism except the one that is being built up by the European Union for a European identity is bad and will necessarily lead to a Nazi system and concentration camps. Funnily enough, none of those people like to discuss the international and, indeed, supranational Communist system that also led to concentration camps. Though it is true that from 1941 on Stalin used nationalism and patriotism as he realized that people are unlikely to fight for the glory of Communism though they will for Mother Russia.

That was very convoluted but it is an agreement for those who say patriotism or nationalism does not equal Hitler or Nazism.

]]> By: david foster http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/6218.html/comment-page-1#comment-268351 david foster Mon, 15 Sep 2008 02:39:14 +0000 http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=6218#comment-268351 "Indeed. Deutschland uber alles!"...there seems to be a fairly common thought process that runs: Hitler and other Axis leaders used patriotism to motivate people to do terrible things. Therefore, patriotism is evil. This is structurally similar to an argument that, since the Nazis used trains to carry people to concentration camps, we should eliminate railroads. “Indeed. Deutschland uber alles!”…there seems to be a fairly common thought process that runs: Hitler and other Axis leaders used patriotism to motivate people to do terrible things. Therefore, patriotism is evil.

This is structurally similar to an argument that, since the Nazis used trains to carry people to concentration camps, we should eliminate railroads.

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