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	<title>Comments on: Why Socialism Will Not Die: Meat!</title>
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	<description>Some Chicago Boyz know each other from student days at the University of Chicago. Others are Chicago boys in spirit. The blog name is also intended as a good-humored gesture of admiration for distinguished Chicago boys including those pictured above.</description>
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		<title>By: M. Simon</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/6348.html/comment-page-1#comment-283400</link>
		<dc:creator>M. Simon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 02:52:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=6348#comment-283400</guid>
		<description>Recent work on the emergence of high intelligence among Ashkenazic Jews says that genetic traits can shift by about one standard deviation in 500 years under sufficient environmental pressure. 

BTW I&#039;m surprised you didn&#039;t mention the feudal nature of Chicago politics. It is a prime example. 

What I find interesting is that Republicans do not tend to produce feudal cultures as often as Democrats.

And you might want to do something on how mechanized warfare produces a military meritocracy - you did allude to it. It takes a lot of aircraft mechanics to keep the &quot;knights of the sky&quot; in the air.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Recent work on the emergence of high intelligence among Ashkenazic Jews says that genetic traits can shift by about one standard deviation in 500 years under sufficient environmental pressure. </p>
<p>BTW I&#8217;m surprised you didn&#8217;t mention the feudal nature of Chicago politics. It is a prime example. </p>
<p>What I find interesting is that Republicans do not tend to produce feudal cultures as often as Democrats.</p>
<p>And you might want to do something on how mechanized warfare produces a military meritocracy &#8211; you did allude to it. It takes a lot of aircraft mechanics to keep the &#8220;knights of the sky&#8221; in the air.</p>
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		<title>By: Shannon Love</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/6348.html/comment-page-1#comment-276350</link>
		<dc:creator>Shannon Love</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Oct 2008 18:32:18 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Scotus,

I do  concede that my argument rest ultimately on the materialistic assumption. 

More narrowly, we can say with scientific certainty that any behavior that persist for long periods of time will drive the evolution of genes to support it. The hypothesis is falsifiable because it predicts the existence of genes that we don&#039;t currently know about. 

So, once you make the materialistic assumption that all phenomena can ultimately be measured and quantified, then the hypothesis stands on fairly solid ground. It certainly stands on at least a firm setting as any other political hypothesis.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Scotus,</p>
<p>I do  concede that my argument rest ultimately on the materialistic assumption. </p>
<p>More narrowly, we can say with scientific certainty that any behavior that persist for long periods of time will drive the evolution of genes to support it. The hypothesis is falsifiable because it predicts the existence of genes that we don&#8217;t currently know about. </p>
<p>So, once you make the materialistic assumption that all phenomena can ultimately be measured and quantified, then the hypothesis stands on fairly solid ground. It certainly stands on at least a firm setting as any other political hypothesis.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Scotus</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/6348.html/comment-page-1#comment-276347</link>
		<dc:creator>Scotus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Oct 2008 16:55:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=6348#comment-276347</guid>
		<description>Shannon,

I appreciate your analysis, but it is not just that you have no proof for it, it&#039;s that it&#039;s unprovable.  It is a story, rooted in evolutionary biology, that provides an explanation for the eternal return of socialism.  If one starts with the assumptions of evolutionary biology, one might find it helpful, even compelling.  If, however, one starts with different assumptions, one will find it neither.  Another story, rooted in different assumptions, also explains socialism&#039;s perennial appeal. It can be found in Genesis 3. Please understand.  I don&#039;t mean to insult you nor am I advocating Biblical literalism.  I am simply pointing out the story one tells about the ultimate origin of anything human depends upon the covenant one is bound by.  It depends upon the covenant to which one has CHOSEN to bind oneself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shannon,</p>
<p>I appreciate your analysis, but it is not just that you have no proof for it, it&#8217;s that it&#8217;s unprovable.  It is a story, rooted in evolutionary biology, that provides an explanation for the eternal return of socialism.  If one starts with the assumptions of evolutionary biology, one might find it helpful, even compelling.  If, however, one starts with different assumptions, one will find it neither.  Another story, rooted in different assumptions, also explains socialism&#8217;s perennial appeal. It can be found in Genesis 3. Please understand.  I don&#8217;t mean to insult you nor am I advocating Biblical literalism.  I am simply pointing out the story one tells about the ultimate origin of anything human depends upon the covenant one is bound by.  It depends upon the covenant to which one has CHOSEN to bind oneself.</p>
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		<title>By: Shannon Love</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/6348.html/comment-page-1#comment-275762</link>
		<dc:creator>Shannon Love</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Oct 2008 22:04:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=6348#comment-275762</guid>
		<description>Jim Bennett,

I don&#039;t disagree that cultures evolve many different modes of fair sharing. Instead, I argue that our genetic default is the sharing mode of the hunter-gatherer. That is why that idea of equal shares, immediately consumed, reoccurs time and time again in history even when the local culture says otherwise. 

People adopt different sharing modes when conditions warrant them but they do so against the force of the genetically programmed mode. Without constant pressure selecting for the non-genetic mode, we will revert to the genetic mode. 

I think it is the same reason why meritocracies are so rare and unstable in history. People are genetically programmed to cooperate and advance the interest of their blood kin. Empires arise when a polity abandons the family first model, develops an egalitarian and meritocratic structure. However, the family first tendencies eventually undermine meritocracy and the empire collapses.  

I argue that the hunter-gatherer mode is hardware while all other modes are software. We always gravitate to the hunter-gatherer mode. That is socialism is such an easy sell and always has been over the millennia.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jim Bennett,</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t disagree that cultures evolve many different modes of fair sharing. Instead, I argue that our genetic default is the sharing mode of the hunter-gatherer. That is why that idea of equal shares, immediately consumed, reoccurs time and time again in history even when the local culture says otherwise. </p>
<p>People adopt different sharing modes when conditions warrant them but they do so against the force of the genetically programmed mode. Without constant pressure selecting for the non-genetic mode, we will revert to the genetic mode. </p>
<p>I think it is the same reason why meritocracies are so rare and unstable in history. People are genetically programmed to cooperate and advance the interest of their blood kin. Empires arise when a polity abandons the family first model, develops an egalitarian and meritocratic structure. However, the family first tendencies eventually undermine meritocracy and the empire collapses.  </p>
<p>I argue that the hunter-gatherer mode is hardware while all other modes are software. We always gravitate to the hunter-gatherer mode. That is socialism is such an easy sell and always has been over the millennia.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Bennett</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/6348.html/comment-page-1#comment-275752</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Bennett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Oct 2008 21:26:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=6348#comment-275752</guid>
		<description>One issue is that while &quot;Fair distribution&quot; may be a very broadly-held value, the definition of &quot;fairness&quot; differs widely.  Capitalist societies see a distribution of profits in a corporation in proportion to shareholding to be fair.  Socialist societies see equal sharing, or needs-based sharing, to be fair.  A traditional, kinship-organized society might see distribution in proportion to age or kinship status to be fair -- primogeniture requires the eldest son to get all the land, but also defines what is a fair distribution to other siblings -- an appropriate dowry to the daughters, an adequate stake (for instance, the purchase of an army or navy commission, or a plantation in the colonies) to the younger sons.  Equal sharing is the primitive, hunting-based value; other modes date from neolithic agriculture, feudalism, or the rise of capitalism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One issue is that while &#8220;Fair distribution&#8221; may be a very broadly-held value, the definition of &#8220;fairness&#8221; differs widely.  Capitalist societies see a distribution of profits in a corporation in proportion to shareholding to be fair.  Socialist societies see equal sharing, or needs-based sharing, to be fair.  A traditional, kinship-organized society might see distribution in proportion to age or kinship status to be fair &#8212; primogeniture requires the eldest son to get all the land, but also defines what is a fair distribution to other siblings &#8212; an appropriate dowry to the daughters, an adequate stake (for instance, the purchase of an army or navy commission, or a plantation in the colonies) to the younger sons.  Equal sharing is the primitive, hunting-based value; other modes date from neolithic agriculture, feudalism, or the rise of capitalism.</p>
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		<title>By: Shannon Love</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/6348.html/comment-page-1#comment-275749</link>
		<dc:creator>Shannon Love</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Oct 2008 21:16:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=6348#comment-275749</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;So long as cultural transmission is doing the job, where is the pressure for genetic selection?&lt;/i&gt;

If the gene makes it more likely that a person will engage in a beneficial behavior then that generates selection pressure. Indeed, modern thinking on behavioral genetics holds that if you froze culture long enough (periods&gt;100,000 years) almost any behavior could become largely genetically primed. 

I think &quot;primed&quot; is the key word here. People can and do override genetic based behaviors. For example, we&#039;re all programmed to seek sex yet culture and reason allow us to control the urges. It is only when we&#039;re unaware of the actions of our genes that they become dangerous. I believe we do have a genetic sense of fair distribution of resources that we inherited from our hunter-gather ancestors and that our unawareness of it leads us to assume that some forms of organization are superior to others even when evidence to the contrary exist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>So long as cultural transmission is doing the job, where is the pressure for genetic selection?</i></p>
<p>If the gene makes it more likely that a person will engage in a beneficial behavior then that generates selection pressure. Indeed, modern thinking on behavioral genetics holds that if you froze culture long enough (periods&gt;100,000 years) almost any behavior could become largely genetically primed. </p>
<p>I think &#8220;primed&#8221; is the key word here. People can and do override genetic based behaviors. For example, we&#8217;re all programmed to seek sex yet culture and reason allow us to control the urges. It is only when we&#8217;re unaware of the actions of our genes that they become dangerous. I believe we do have a genetic sense of fair distribution of resources that we inherited from our hunter-gather ancestors and that our unawareness of it leads us to assume that some forms of organization are superior to others even when evidence to the contrary exist.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Bennett</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/6348.html/comment-page-1#comment-275746</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Bennett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Oct 2008 20:48:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=6348#comment-275746</guid>
		<description>Re culture vs. genetics: maybe.  It would be sufficient for the genetic predispositions to be neutral in regard to sharing vs. keeping.  So long as cultural transmission is doing the job, where is the pressure for genetic selection?  In any case, we will probably see the evidence for a &quot;sharing gene&quot; within the next ten years or so of research, if such does indeed exist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re culture vs. genetics: maybe.  It would be sufficient for the genetic predispositions to be neutral in regard to sharing vs. keeping.  So long as cultural transmission is doing the job, where is the pressure for genetic selection?  In any case, we will probably see the evidence for a &#8220;sharing gene&#8221; within the next ten years or so of research, if such does indeed exist.</p>
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		<title>By: Shannon Love</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/6348.html/comment-page-1#comment-275742</link>
		<dc:creator>Shannon Love</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Oct 2008 20:41:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=6348#comment-275742</guid>
		<description>Jim Bennet,

&lt;i&gt;Cultural transmission models work just as well to explain the prevalence of those values, and require fewer assumptions;&lt;/i&gt;

I think a genetic explanation is required because of the universal nature of the behaviors I describe. If culture played the primary role, we would expect to see a great deal of diversity across thousands of documented human cultures but we don&#039;t. All cultures seem to share the same basic concept of &quot;fairness&quot; especially when it come to dividing resources among individuals of equal status. 

Genetic explanations of behavior might seem far fetched to some but if a behavior provides reproductive success over long periods of time, genes that enable that behavior will evolve and spread through the population. Even throughly modern humans, who evolved only 50,000 years ago ( out of four million) spent 40,000-44,000 years a hunter-gatherers. That is enough time for evolution change. People repeating the same cultural pattern over tens of thousands of years would inevitably end up genes priming people for that culture. 

I agree with your ideas about the role of militarism and socialism. War brings about the highest degree of human cooperation and all socialism is inspired by the degree of cooperation and self-sacrifice that prevails during a military crisis. However, just because culture continues to reinforce the original hunter-gather patterns does not mean that no genetic predisposition exist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jim Bennet,</p>
<p><i>Cultural transmission models work just as well to explain the prevalence of those values, and require fewer assumptions;</i></p>
<p>I think a genetic explanation is required because of the universal nature of the behaviors I describe. If culture played the primary role, we would expect to see a great deal of diversity across thousands of documented human cultures but we don&#8217;t. All cultures seem to share the same basic concept of &#8220;fairness&#8221; especially when it come to dividing resources among individuals of equal status. </p>
<p>Genetic explanations of behavior might seem far fetched to some but if a behavior provides reproductive success over long periods of time, genes that enable that behavior will evolve and spread through the population. Even throughly modern humans, who evolved only 50,000 years ago ( out of four million) spent 40,000-44,000 years a hunter-gatherers. That is enough time for evolution change. People repeating the same cultural pattern over tens of thousands of years would inevitably end up genes priming people for that culture. </p>
<p>I agree with your ideas about the role of militarism and socialism. War brings about the highest degree of human cooperation and all socialism is inspired by the degree of cooperation and self-sacrifice that prevails during a military crisis. However, just because culture continues to reinforce the original hunter-gather patterns does not mean that no genetic predisposition exist.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Bennett</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/6348.html/comment-page-1#comment-275739</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Bennett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Oct 2008 20:13:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=6348#comment-275739</guid>
		<description>Shannon, your economics of primitive societies is in accord with most anthropology; the case is actually even stronger, because most big game hunting was done by most or all men of the tribe -- it was almost always a collective effort and the skill differential was relatively flat.  However, there&#039;s no particular evidence that it became genetic.  Cultural transmission models work just as well to explain the prevalence of those values, and require fewer assumptions; therefore, Occam&#039;s razor favors the cultural model over the genetic one.  These memes continued to have value after the Neolothic era introduced stored surpluses, because of the rise of military competition.  Early warfare also involved all tribal males, and the skill differential was still very flat.  The more spear on your side, the better your chances, and if any one person was a more accurate thrower it didn&#039;t make that much difference.  So even after stored food could be allocated individually it still made sense to share some of it, so as to keep as many able-bodied spear-carriers around your village as possible.  Since then, there has always the tension between the value of rewarding individual effort and thrift, and the need for social solidarity to insure a healthy population of military effectives, and mothers to bear and raise more military effectives.  In eras in which military skill distributions are flatter, this solidarity becomes more important; as skill differentials increase, it becoems less important.  Interesting that after the invention of the levy en masse, with large conscript armies using bayonets or muskets in which individual accuracy is less important, you have the emergence of Prussian-style state welfarism, and social democracy.  As skill differentials become more important again, and conscript armies become less useful, welfarism starts to wane again, and Laffer curves and high Gini ratios combine with the re-emergence of highly trained professional armies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shannon, your economics of primitive societies is in accord with most anthropology; the case is actually even stronger, because most big game hunting was done by most or all men of the tribe &#8212; it was almost always a collective effort and the skill differential was relatively flat.  However, there&#8217;s no particular evidence that it became genetic.  Cultural transmission models work just as well to explain the prevalence of those values, and require fewer assumptions; therefore, Occam&#8217;s razor favors the cultural model over the genetic one.  These memes continued to have value after the Neolothic era introduced stored surpluses, because of the rise of military competition.  Early warfare also involved all tribal males, and the skill differential was still very flat.  The more spear on your side, the better your chances, and if any one person was a more accurate thrower it didn&#8217;t make that much difference.  So even after stored food could be allocated individually it still made sense to share some of it, so as to keep as many able-bodied spear-carriers around your village as possible.  Since then, there has always the tension between the value of rewarding individual effort and thrift, and the need for social solidarity to insure a healthy population of military effectives, and mothers to bear and raise more military effectives.  In eras in which military skill distributions are flatter, this solidarity becomes more important; as skill differentials increase, it becoems less important.  Interesting that after the invention of the levy en masse, with large conscript armies using bayonets or muskets in which individual accuracy is less important, you have the emergence of Prussian-style state welfarism, and social democracy.  As skill differentials become more important again, and conscript armies become less useful, welfarism starts to wane again, and Laffer curves and high Gini ratios combine with the re-emergence of highly trained professional armies.</p>
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		<title>By: Shannon Love</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/6348.html/comment-page-1#comment-275651</link>
		<dc:creator>Shannon Love</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Oct 2008 14:00:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=6348#comment-275651</guid>
		<description>Toad,

&lt;i&gt;My observation of shop, office, and academic politics is that it is mostly family and/or tribal based.&lt;/i&gt;

Yes, it is only in the last century that the Western world has moved beyond an explicit system of organization around extended family units. Most of the rest of the world still functions this way (which is why they&#039;re still poor).

Meritocracy is an ideal we consciously struggle towards, not something that comes naturally to our species. It is imposed upon us by need, usually by a crisis of competition such as occurs in free-market competition or in a military invasion. Societies allow for merit promotion because they have to in order to survive. Once the crisis disappears or they begin to take the benefits of meritocracy for granted, we slip back into the genetic patterns and suffer the consequences their of.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Toad,</p>
<p><i>My observation of shop, office, and academic politics is that it is mostly family and/or tribal based.</i></p>
<p>Yes, it is only in the last century that the Western world has moved beyond an explicit system of organization around extended family units. Most of the rest of the world still functions this way (which is why they&#8217;re still poor).</p>
<p>Meritocracy is an ideal we consciously struggle towards, not something that comes naturally to our species. It is imposed upon us by need, usually by a crisis of competition such as occurs in free-market competition or in a military invasion. Societies allow for merit promotion because they have to in order to survive. Once the crisis disappears or they begin to take the benefits of meritocracy for granted, we slip back into the genetic patterns and suffer the consequences their of.</p>
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		<title>By: toad</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/6348.html/comment-page-1#comment-275640</link>
		<dc:creator>toad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Oct 2008 13:17:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=6348#comment-275640</guid>
		<description>My observation of shop, office, and academic politics is that it is mostly family and/or tribal based. There is a fuedal system in some of the larger compainies.  
To advance in a lot of companies you must find a mentor or lord to swear alligance to.  You may have to become a Mason, Knight of Columbus, or join the right church.  One plant was sewn up by about three families so you had to find out who drank where and or (shudder) marry into it.    
At one plant that I worked at they had this nice sophisticated testing system for getting skill class upgrades. It was so comprimised as to be a real joke.  At the same place they had a union steward who was very effective.  It wasn&#039;t because he was the greatest negotiator in the world but the fact that he was big, bearded, and hairy.  He loomed over every supervisor.  It didn&#039;t hurt that his hobby was semi-pro football on the weekends.  During the first few days of the week when he was in recovery mode he really looked tough and ragged.  Potential physical intemidation beats most negotiating class instruction when the hind brain goes Eeeep!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My observation of shop, office, and academic politics is that it is mostly family and/or tribal based. There is a fuedal system in some of the larger compainies.<br />
To advance in a lot of companies you must find a mentor or lord to swear alligance to.  You may have to become a Mason, Knight of Columbus, or join the right church.  One plant was sewn up by about three families so you had to find out who drank where and or (shudder) marry into it.<br />
At one plant that I worked at they had this nice sophisticated testing system for getting skill class upgrades. It was so comprimised as to be a real joke.  At the same place they had a union steward who was very effective.  It wasn&#8217;t because he was the greatest negotiator in the world but the fact that he was big, bearded, and hairy.  He loomed over every supervisor.  It didn&#8217;t hurt that his hobby was semi-pro football on the weekends.  During the first few days of the week when he was in recovery mode he really looked tough and ragged.  Potential physical intemidation beats most negotiating class instruction when the hind brain goes Eeeep!</p>
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		<title>By: Obloodyhell</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/6348.html/comment-page-1#comment-275547</link>
		<dc:creator>Obloodyhell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Oct 2008 04:47:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=6348#comment-275547</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Karl Marx is to economists what Khalil Gibran is to philosophers. In the real world there is no Marxist program, but inside the human brain he tickles the mood centers.&lt;/i&gt;
 - Alexis A. Gilliland, &#039;Long Shot for Rosinante&#039; -

Gilliland&#039;s &quot;Rosinante&quot; trilogy is an interesting revolution story, like Heinlein&#039;s &lt;i&gt;The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress&lt;/i&gt;. No, not quite as good, but still very interesting and well done. And it has a lot of comments to make about socialism/communism</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Karl Marx is to economists what Khalil Gibran is to philosophers. In the real world there is no Marxist program, but inside the human brain he tickles the mood centers.</i><br />
 &#8211; Alexis A. Gilliland, &#8216;Long Shot for Rosinante&#8217; -</p>
<p>Gilliland&#8217;s &#8220;Rosinante&#8221; trilogy is an interesting revolution story, like Heinlein&#8217;s <i>The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress</i>. No, not quite as good, but still very interesting and well done. And it has a lot of comments to make about socialism/communism</p>
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		<title>By: Joshua</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/6348.html/comment-page-1#comment-275542</link>
		<dc:creator>Joshua</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Oct 2008 04:14:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=6348#comment-275542</guid>
		<description>Veryretired: &lt;i&gt;As I have said previously, socialism derives a great deal of its power and attraction from its religious elements, i.e., its demand for faith and committment to bring about a future paradise of equality and freedom from want. The emotional response to this potentiality is deep and reptilian indeed.&lt;/i&gt;

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.tcsdaily.com/article.aspx?id=050506I&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Why Isn&#039;t Socialism Dead?&lt;/a&gt; This piece is over two years old but is still spot-on as to your observation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Veryretired: <i>As I have said previously, socialism derives a great deal of its power and attraction from its religious elements, i.e., its demand for faith and committment to bring about a future paradise of equality and freedom from want. The emotional response to this potentiality is deep and reptilian indeed.</i></p>
<p><a href="http://www.tcsdaily.com/article.aspx?id=050506I" rel="nofollow">Why Isn&#8217;t Socialism Dead?</a> This piece is over two years old but is still spot-on as to your observation.</p>
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		<title>By: veryretired</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/6348.html/comment-page-1#comment-275529</link>
		<dc:creator>veryretired</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Oct 2008 03:27:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=6348#comment-275529</guid>
		<description>This is a huge topic, so I will try to restrain my normal tendency to go on and on.

I just finished a fascinating book called &quot;Before the Dawn&quot; which uses genetic and linguistic research to track the development of humans from near primate ancestors through the key period of modern human development from about 50,000 years ago to the present age. While I have no idea if that book influenced your thoughts in this post, much of what the author posits is congruent with your sketch here, although his political orientation would seem to be removed from yours.

I generally think that the truly ancient bases for our emotions are a much stronger influence on our behavior and decision making than is usually considered. Aggression, status seeking, our sex drive, and many other fundamental urges are rooted in the primitive reptilian brain underlying the more recent primate and human brain segments. I often wonder if what we term &quot;genetic&quot; is actually the release of rewarding chemicals  by the older levels of our brain to reinforce behaviors more suitable to an ancient ancestor than to a modern human.

I have long thought that the default social structure most natural to humans is some form of a &quot;feudal&quot; structure based on a strong central figure and the radiating webs of loyalty and obligation that such a format entails. This formulation is also congruent with some of the points you make here, and fits both the political and religious structures found in most societies, from primitive clan based social orders right up to modern political parties and business corporations.

Finally, egalitarianism is a deadly trap when it is enforced by fiat instead of the result of natural social forces. The book cited earlier makes much of the generally egalitarian nature of hunter/gatherer societies, and the enormous changes in that conception of human society demanded by the development of agriculture, property, and surpluses which could be stored, stolen, and traded for other goods and services.

As I have said previously, socialism derives a great deal of its power and attraction from its religious elements, i.e., its demand for faith and committment to bring about a future paradise of equality and freedom from want. The emotional response to this potentiality is deep and reptilian indeed.

Enough.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a huge topic, so I will try to restrain my normal tendency to go on and on.</p>
<p>I just finished a fascinating book called &#8220;Before the Dawn&#8221; which uses genetic and linguistic research to track the development of humans from near primate ancestors through the key period of modern human development from about 50,000 years ago to the present age. While I have no idea if that book influenced your thoughts in this post, much of what the author posits is congruent with your sketch here, although his political orientation would seem to be removed from yours.</p>
<p>I generally think that the truly ancient bases for our emotions are a much stronger influence on our behavior and decision making than is usually considered. Aggression, status seeking, our sex drive, and many other fundamental urges are rooted in the primitive reptilian brain underlying the more recent primate and human brain segments. I often wonder if what we term &#8220;genetic&#8221; is actually the release of rewarding chemicals  by the older levels of our brain to reinforce behaviors more suitable to an ancient ancestor than to a modern human.</p>
<p>I have long thought that the default social structure most natural to humans is some form of a &#8220;feudal&#8221; structure based on a strong central figure and the radiating webs of loyalty and obligation that such a format entails. This formulation is also congruent with some of the points you make here, and fits both the political and religious structures found in most societies, from primitive clan based social orders right up to modern political parties and business corporations.</p>
<p>Finally, egalitarianism is a deadly trap when it is enforced by fiat instead of the result of natural social forces. The book cited earlier makes much of the generally egalitarian nature of hunter/gatherer societies, and the enormous changes in that conception of human society demanded by the development of agriculture, property, and surpluses which could be stored, stolen, and traded for other goods and services.</p>
<p>As I have said previously, socialism derives a great deal of its power and attraction from its religious elements, i.e., its demand for faith and committment to bring about a future paradise of equality and freedom from want. The emotional response to this potentiality is deep and reptilian indeed.</p>
<p>Enough.</p>
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		<title>By: Joshua</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/6348.html/comment-page-1#comment-275506</link>
		<dc:creator>Joshua</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Oct 2008 02:15:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=6348#comment-275506</guid>
		<description>Congratulations Shannon, you have just given the vegan battle cry &quot;Meat is murder&quot; a whole new meaning.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Congratulations Shannon, you have just given the vegan battle cry &#8220;Meat is murder&#8221; a whole new meaning.</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Shannon Love</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/6348.html/comment-page-1#comment-275470</link>
		<dc:creator>Shannon Love</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Oct 2008 23:21:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=6348#comment-275470</guid>
		<description>Alan,

&lt;i&gt;An interesting story with not one shred of proof to confirm that it is true.&lt;/i&gt;

It&#039;s a blog post, not a book. What kind of &quot;proof&quot; would you like? What assertions in the parent do you find dubious?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alan,</p>
<p><i>An interesting story with not one shred of proof to confirm that it is true.</i></p>
<p>It&#8217;s a blog post, not a book. What kind of &#8220;proof&#8221; would you like? What assertions in the parent do you find dubious?</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Alan</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/6348.html/comment-page-1#comment-275468</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Oct 2008 22:56:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=6348#comment-275468</guid>
		<description>An interesting story with not one shred of proof to confirm that it is true.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An interesting story with not one shred of proof to confirm that it is true.</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Shannon Love</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/6348.html/comment-page-1#comment-275452</link>
		<dc:creator>Shannon Love</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Oct 2008 20:26:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=6348#comment-275452</guid>
		<description>Bradely,

&lt;i&gt;Have you read the Leviathan, (or did you just google it)&lt;/i&gt;

I read it 20 years ago in college. Why? I don&#039;t see the revelence of Hobbs, who wrote 200 years previous to discovery of evolution and natural selection, to this argument.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bradely,</p>
<p><i>Have you read the Leviathan, (or did you just google it)</i></p>
<p>I read it 20 years ago in college. Why? I don&#8217;t see the revelence of Hobbs, who wrote 200 years previous to discovery of evolution and natural selection, to this argument.</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Bradley</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/6348.html/comment-page-1#comment-275451</link>
		<dc:creator>Bradley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Oct 2008 20:14:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=6348#comment-275451</guid>
		<description>Ok, I will type slower,

Have you read the Leviathan, (or did you just google it)?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ok, I will type slower,</p>
<p>Have you read the Leviathan, (or did you just google it)?</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Shannon Love</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/6348.html/comment-page-1#comment-275450</link>
		<dc:creator>Shannon Love</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Oct 2008 20:07:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=6348#comment-275450</guid>
		<description>Bradely,

&lt;i&gt;Have you ever read Thomas Hobbs?&lt;/i&gt;

This is not a Hobbian argument. &quot;Hunter-gatherer&quot; does not mean &quot;savage&quot; as Hobbs conceived it. Neither does the Leviathan play a role since such organization has only existed in the last 0.025% of hominid history. 

Our genetic senses of &quot;fair&quot; are highly adapted to life of a hunter-gatherer. In such an environment, they do not result in the struggle-of-all-against-all but rather in a high degree of cooperation and mutual support. The problem we face currently is that we no longer live in that environment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bradely,</p>
<p><i>Have you ever read Thomas Hobbs?</i></p>
<p>This is not a Hobbian argument. &#8220;Hunter-gatherer&#8221; does not mean &#8220;savage&#8221; as Hobbs conceived it. Neither does the Leviathan play a role since such organization has only existed in the last 0.025% of hominid history. </p>
<p>Our genetic senses of &#8220;fair&#8221; are highly adapted to life of a hunter-gatherer. In such an environment, they do not result in the struggle-of-all-against-all but rather in a high degree of cooperation and mutual support. The problem we face currently is that we no longer live in that environment.</p>
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