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	<title>Comments on: Time to Play &#8220;Who is the Rube?&#8221;</title>
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	<description>Some Chicago Boyz know each other from student days at the University of Chicago. Others are Chicago boys in spirit. The blog name is also intended as a good-humored gesture of admiration for distinguished Chicago boys including those pictured above.</description>
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		<title>By: seanf</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/7108.html/comment-page-1#comment-315579</link>
		<dc:creator>seanf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 May 2009 21:42:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=7108#comment-315579</guid>
		<description>This thread was fun to read. Ginger, please do go on and educate us with your views; would you care to share more? Inquiring minds want to know...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This thread was fun to read. Ginger, please do go on and educate us with your views; would you care to share more? Inquiring minds want to know&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Ginger</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/7108.html/comment-page-1#comment-315500</link>
		<dc:creator>Ginger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 May 2009 16:35:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=7108#comment-315500</guid>
		<description>Here is a guy that was born in Kenya (clearly faked Hawaiian birth certificate), is only 5% Black (mostly white &amp; Arab/Berber -- he looks mostly like a Berber), was educated as a muslim (&amp; still is -- look at his on-site support for Kenyan relative politicians and their platforms), and who is gay (never had a girlfriend, two gay guy friends in his congregation killed viciously for mysterious reasons during the election?).  Use your gaydar fellow dykes&amp;gays!  Is that why Michelle always has the doe-caught-in-the-headlights-stunned-look?  This guy lies to everyone else -- are you surprised he lied to us, too?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here is a guy that was born in Kenya (clearly faked Hawaiian birth certificate), is only 5% Black (mostly white &amp; Arab/Berber &#8212; he looks mostly like a Berber), was educated as a muslim (&amp; still is &#8212; look at his on-site support for Kenyan relative politicians and their platforms), and who is gay (never had a girlfriend, two gay guy friends in his congregation killed viciously for mysterious reasons during the election?).  Use your gaydar fellow dykes&amp;gays!  Is that why Michelle always has the doe-caught-in-the-headlights-stunned-look?  This guy lies to everyone else &#8212; are you surprised he lied to us, too?</p>
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		<title>By: Ginny</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/7108.html/comment-page-1#comment-315345</link>
		<dc:creator>Ginny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 May 2009 05:47:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=7108#comment-315345</guid>
		<description>JB 
I suspect the old populist union vote fits that category as well.  The uncomfortable joining of these groups in one party may account for some of the virulence from the social left.  Some realize their voice in a party based on identify politics may not be as respected as they would like - it would be hard not to notice the homophobia of, say, Rev. Wright.  If it is a thought out strategy, I&#039;d assume demonizing certain views doesn&#039;t just demonize those in the other party but muzzles them in one&#039;s own.  However, I suspect it is more often a gut level response - for most of us our worst actions are derived from our insecurities.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JB<br />
I suspect the old populist union vote fits that category as well.  The uncomfortable joining of these groups in one party may account for some of the virulence from the social left.  Some realize their voice in a party based on identify politics may not be as respected as they would like &#8211; it would be hard not to notice the homophobia of, say, Rev. Wright.  If it is a thought out strategy, I&#8217;d assume demonizing certain views doesn&#8217;t just demonize those in the other party but muzzles them in one&#8217;s own.  However, I suspect it is more often a gut level response &#8211; for most of us our worst actions are derived from our insecurities.</p>
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		<title>By: JB</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/7108.html/comment-page-1#comment-315311</link>
		<dc:creator>JB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 May 2009 03:44:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=7108#comment-315311</guid>
		<description>&quot;“Left-of-center religious conservatives”???!?!?&quot;

A big chunk of the Latino and black city vote.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;“Left-of-center religious conservatives”???!?!?&#8221;</p>
<p>A big chunk of the Latino and black city vote.</p>
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		<title>By: sestamibi</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/7108.html/comment-page-1#comment-315293</link>
		<dc:creator>sestamibi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 May 2009 02:35:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=7108#comment-315293</guid>
		<description>&quot;Left-of-center religious conservatives&quot;???!?!?

What the hell does that mean??!?!?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Left-of-center religious conservatives&#8221;???!?!?</p>
<p>What the hell does that mean??!?!?</p>
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		<title>By: GeoffB</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/7108.html/comment-page-1#comment-315137</link>
		<dc:creator>GeoffB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 May 2009 16:59:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=7108#comment-315137</guid>
		<description>It doesn&#039;t matter what Obama believes. What matters is what he actually does. That&#039;s why I find the left&#039;s gushing about the handwritten note he sent a soldier ejected under Don&#039;t Ask, Don&#039;t Tell to be so comical. For those of you keeping score at home, the UAW got Chrysler and the gays got a piece of paper. Chrysler&#039;s bondholders can tell you how much a piece of paper is worth when Obama comes into the equation.

So who are the rubes? It&#039;s not the gay marriage supporters or the gay marriage opponents. It&#039;s &lt;i&gt;anyone&lt;/i&gt; who thinks that the key to their issue is winning Obama&#039;s support and solidarity. In reality, they gays will have marriage and Don&#039;t Ask, Don&#039;t Tell will be repealed when the gay rights community advances the issue far enough that it&#039;s politically expedient for Obama to ride the wave.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It doesn&#8217;t matter what Obama believes. What matters is what he actually does. That&#8217;s why I find the left&#8217;s gushing about the handwritten note he sent a soldier ejected under Don&#8217;t Ask, Don&#8217;t Tell to be so comical. For those of you keeping score at home, the UAW got Chrysler and the gays got a piece of paper. Chrysler&#8217;s bondholders can tell you how much a piece of paper is worth when Obama comes into the equation.</p>
<p>So who are the rubes? It&#8217;s not the gay marriage supporters or the gay marriage opponents. It&#8217;s <i>anyone</i> who thinks that the key to their issue is winning Obama&#8217;s support and solidarity. In reality, they gays will have marriage and Don&#8217;t Ask, Don&#8217;t Tell will be repealed when the gay rights community advances the issue far enough that it&#8217;s politically expedient for Obama to ride the wave.</p>
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		<title>By: Rhodium Heart</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/7108.html/comment-page-1#comment-315125</link>
		<dc:creator>Rhodium Heart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 May 2009 16:14:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=7108#comment-315125</guid>
		<description>What gives this whole thing its &quot;through the looking glass&quot; vibe is that if you tell one of these leftist O-bots that you oppose Dear Leader because you think Obama&#039;s lying about his &quot;moderate&quot; position -- whether that be gay marriage, dedication to fighting the war on terror, second amendment rights, socialization of the financial sector -- the lefty O-bots will get angry with YOU, even though they support Obama precisely because they think he&#039;s lying to you, not them.  How dare you neocon not fall under the spell of the greatest orator since Cicero (or any other Chicago suburb)!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What gives this whole thing its &#8220;through the looking glass&#8221; vibe is that if you tell one of these leftist O-bots that you oppose Dear Leader because you think Obama&#8217;s lying about his &#8220;moderate&#8221; position &#8212; whether that be gay marriage, dedication to fighting the war on terror, second amendment rights, socialization of the financial sector &#8212; the lefty O-bots will get angry with YOU, even though they support Obama precisely because they think he&#8217;s lying to you, not them.  How dare you neocon not fall under the spell of the greatest orator since Cicero (or any other Chicago suburb)!</p>
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		<title>By: Bobb Dobbs</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/7108.html/comment-page-1#comment-315102</link>
		<dc:creator>Bobb Dobbs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 May 2009 15:07:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=7108#comment-315102</guid>
		<description>Get back to me when Obama actually tells the truth about something.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Get back to me when Obama actually tells the truth about something.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/7108.html/comment-page-1#comment-315080</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 May 2009 13:52:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=7108#comment-315080</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t know if he is lying or not.   The Chicago Reader did a poll many years ago in which the subject was tolerance in Chicago.  The breakdown of the poll revealed that among African-Americans, almost 85% stated that they would not tolerate a gay bar or establishment in their community.  The poll showed a certain surprising hostility towards the gay lifestyle from what would otherwise be a large left-leaning block of voters.

If Obama is true to his word, and says what he believes then why is he not getting the Miss American treatment?   I think most are correct to presume that he is a politician and needs to lie to maintain support in weak constituencies. 

But why then does that not make Obama a lying hypocrite?   The left had very little tolerance for the perceived &quot;mendacity&quot; of the Bush adminstration, but is cozy with this calculated hypocrisy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know if he is lying or not.   The Chicago Reader did a poll many years ago in which the subject was tolerance in Chicago.  The breakdown of the poll revealed that among African-Americans, almost 85% stated that they would not tolerate a gay bar or establishment in their community.  The poll showed a certain surprising hostility towards the gay lifestyle from what would otherwise be a large left-leaning block of voters.</p>
<p>If Obama is true to his word, and says what he believes then why is he not getting the Miss American treatment?   I think most are correct to presume that he is a politician and needs to lie to maintain support in weak constituencies. </p>
<p>But why then does that not make Obama a lying hypocrite?   The left had very little tolerance for the perceived &#8220;mendacity&#8221; of the Bush adminstration, but is cozy with this calculated hypocrisy.</p>
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		<title>By: MagicalPat</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/7108.html/comment-page-1#comment-315059</link>
		<dc:creator>MagicalPat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 May 2009 12:42:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=7108#comment-315059</guid>
		<description>I agree that they think he&#039;s lying. Which allows me to ask my leftie friends, &quot;What else do you think he is lying about?&quot; And my favortie, &quot;Do you think he is lying to YOU about something you want?&quot;

They are so brain washed that they believe Obama will only lie to those of us on the right.

Honor among thieves exists in their world view.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree that they think he&#8217;s lying. Which allows me to ask my leftie friends, &#8220;What else do you think he is lying about?&#8221; And my favortie, &#8220;Do you think he is lying to YOU about something you want?&#8221;</p>
<p>They are so brain washed that they believe Obama will only lie to those of us on the right.</p>
<p>Honor among thieves exists in their world view.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark L</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/7108.html/comment-page-1#comment-315056</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark L</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 May 2009 12:28:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=7108#comment-315056</guid>
		<description>Obama isn&#039;t a muslim -- closet or otherwise.  To be a muslim you have to believe that there is no god but Allah, and Muhammed is his prophet.  Obama believes there is no god but Barack, and Michelle is his profit.

Q.  How does Barack Obama change a light bulb?

A.  He holds the bulb and lets the universe revolve around him.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Obama isn&#8217;t a muslim &#8212; closet or otherwise.  To be a muslim you have to believe that there is no god but Allah, and Muhammed is his prophet.  Obama believes there is no god but Barack, and Michelle is his profit.</p>
<p>Q.  How does Barack Obama change a light bulb?</p>
<p>A.  He holds the bulb and lets the universe revolve around him.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul A'Barge</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/7108.html/comment-page-1#comment-315048</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul A'Barge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 May 2009 11:57:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=7108#comment-315048</guid>
		<description>this one is easy: &quot;far-left Northside intellectual subculture&quot;

Besides, Obama is a closet mustlim. That Christian church thing? Just a ruse to fool the rubes.

See how easy that was?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>this one is easy: &#8220;far-left Northside intellectual subculture&#8221;</p>
<p>Besides, Obama is a closet mustlim. That Christian church thing? Just a ruse to fool the rubes.</p>
<p>See how easy that was?</p>
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		<title>By: tehag</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/7108.html/comment-page-1#comment-315032</link>
		<dc:creator>tehag</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 May 2009 11:00:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=7108#comment-315032</guid>
		<description>&quot;Easy, they assume that he is lying.&quot;

Of course, he&#039;s lying. Politicians are supposed to lie. If they don&#039;t lie how can they get elected? Politics--city, county, state, national, international--is brutal contest conducted in public. Opponents must be lulled, and gulled, before, during, and after elections. Politics isn&#039;t science, it&#039;s manipulation for the purpose of punishing one&#039;s enemies and rewarding one&#039;s friends. Imagine the cost if opponents had to be placated with graft. Lies are the best tools a politician has: cheap and effective.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Easy, they assume that he is lying.&#8221;</p>
<p>Of course, he&#8217;s lying. Politicians are supposed to lie. If they don&#8217;t lie how can they get elected? Politics&#8211;city, county, state, national, international&#8211;is brutal contest conducted in public. Opponents must be lulled, and gulled, before, during, and after elections. Politics isn&#8217;t science, it&#8217;s manipulation for the purpose of punishing one&#8217;s enemies and rewarding one&#8217;s friends. Imagine the cost if opponents had to be placated with graft. Lies are the best tools a politician has: cheap and effective.</p>
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		<title>By: Retardo</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/7108.html/comment-page-1#comment-314925</link>
		<dc:creator>Retardo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 May 2009 03:24:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=7108#comment-314925</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;...they believe that the important thing is for them to have power, and that it really doesn&#039;t matter how they get it.&lt;/i&gt;

Looking at the last three months, especially the Chrysler thing, I wonder if they even think it matters very much what they do with it once they get it. I&#039;m not kidding.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8230;they believe that the important thing is for them to have power, and that it really doesn&#8217;t matter how they get it.</i></p>
<p>Looking at the last three months, especially the Chrysler thing, I wonder if they even think it matters very much what they do with it once they get it. I&#8217;m not kidding.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew_M_Garland</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/7108.html/comment-page-1#comment-314910</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew_M_Garland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 May 2009 02:46:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=7108#comment-314910</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://easyopinions.blogspot.com/2008/06/tpm-taking-positions.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;
The Political Manual: Taking Positions&lt;/a&gt;

Excerpt:
&lt;blockquote&gt;
You will pick the best one or two positions that work at election time. If the gnats ask why you flip-flopped, reply that you have always supported the policy that would be best for your state or country. They can look up the details on your website. 

The smartest members of the public may be put off by this approach. So few that you can ignore them. Most people will remember that you agreed with them at some time, and will assume from your vagueness that you altered your opinion a bit only to get some more votes, which is true. 

Remember and apply the tested technique for keeping two girlfriends. Tell each one that you love her, but that you must keep the other relationship for now, distantly, because you share business interests, and a breakup would cost a lot of money. 
&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://easyopinions.blogspot.com/2008/06/tpm-taking-positions.html" rel="nofollow"><br />
The Political Manual: Taking Positions</a></p>
<p>Excerpt:</p>
<blockquote><p>
You will pick the best one or two positions that work at election time. If the gnats ask why you flip-flopped, reply that you have always supported the policy that would be best for your state or country. They can look up the details on your website. </p>
<p>The smartest members of the public may be put off by this approach. So few that you can ignore them. Most people will remember that you agreed with them at some time, and will assume from your vagueness that you altered your opinion a bit only to get some more votes, which is true. </p>
<p>Remember and apply the tested technique for keeping two girlfriends. Tell each one that you love her, but that you must keep the other relationship for now, distantly, because you share business interests, and a breakup would cost a lot of money.
</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Jaime Roberto</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/7108.html/comment-page-1#comment-314795</link>
		<dc:creator>Jaime Roberto</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 May 2009 19:54:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=7108#comment-314795</guid>
		<description>Not only do they think he is lying, they also believe that he will appoint judges that will rule in favor of gay marriage.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not only do they think he is lying, they also believe that he will appoint judges that will rule in favor of gay marriage.</p>
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		<title>By: Ginny</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/7108.html/comment-page-1#comment-314776</link>
		<dc:creator>Ginny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 May 2009 18:19:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=7108#comment-314776</guid>
		<description>Of course, this can be a false dilemma.  He may have any of several sets of beliefs.  A non-inclusive list might include the belief that even those around him don&#039;t know what he thinks - that the point you make about any means to power being good are central to beliefs that even those around him must be played - union members, ethnic minorities; these people are not overwhelmingly in favor of gay marriage and are not yet ready to be sent to the glue factory.  Another option might be the beliefs of faiths to which Rev. Wright seems a good deal closer than Christianity that homosexualiity is an abomination.  Well, if he is not as far into the thicket as these two options might imply, there is always a willingness to let others fill out forms and sign his name to them, not particularly caring what they say.  This might imply that his famous ability with nuance is less that than an unwillingness to think through some of the more difficult issues of the day.  

I do think when the left seems to project on the right a bigotry they may reveal more about their own vision.  Of course, seeing groups rather than individuals/whole gets them into such problems.  A pro-Kerry person in my family turned to me in some anger when I complained that it was inappropriate to throw at Cheney a position that Edwards claimed must be Cheney&#039;s daughter&#039;s.  He said that why should the Republicans get all the bigot votes.  Since I have respect for this relative, I assume this is not a completely alien position to the left.  Of course, it ignores the fact that many have a principled (and not anti-gay) position against gay marriage, many of whom are strongly for civil unions.  (That a gay thinker like Lee Harris has that position might make some pause.)  And, secondly, the thinking that people would not vote for Cheney because he has a gay daughter.  Such thinking seems to me to undermine their positions, let alone denigrate rather than discuss their opponent&#039;s.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course, this can be a false dilemma.  He may have any of several sets of beliefs.  A non-inclusive list might include the belief that even those around him don&#8217;t know what he thinks &#8211; that the point you make about any means to power being good are central to beliefs that even those around him must be played &#8211; union members, ethnic minorities; these people are not overwhelmingly in favor of gay marriage and are not yet ready to be sent to the glue factory.  Another option might be the beliefs of faiths to which Rev. Wright seems a good deal closer than Christianity that homosexualiity is an abomination.  Well, if he is not as far into the thicket as these two options might imply, there is always a willingness to let others fill out forms and sign his name to them, not particularly caring what they say.  This might imply that his famous ability with nuance is less that than an unwillingness to think through some of the more difficult issues of the day.  </p>
<p>I do think when the left seems to project on the right a bigotry they may reveal more about their own vision.  Of course, seeing groups rather than individuals/whole gets them into such problems.  A pro-Kerry person in my family turned to me in some anger when I complained that it was inappropriate to throw at Cheney a position that Edwards claimed must be Cheney&#8217;s daughter&#8217;s.  He said that why should the Republicans get all the bigot votes.  Since I have respect for this relative, I assume this is not a completely alien position to the left.  Of course, it ignores the fact that many have a principled (and not anti-gay) position against gay marriage, many of whom are strongly for civil unions.  (That a gay thinker like Lee Harris has that position might make some pause.)  And, secondly, the thinking that people would not vote for Cheney because he has a gay daughter.  Such thinking seems to me to undermine their positions, let alone denigrate rather than discuss their opponent&#8217;s.</p>
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