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	<title>Comments on: A Parable of Health Care &#8220;Reform&#8221;</title>
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	<description>Some Chicago Boyz know each other from student days at the University of Chicago. Others are Chicago boys in spirit. The blog name is also intended as a good-humored gesture of admiration for distinguished Chicago boys including those pictured above.</description>
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		<title>By: methinks</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/8189.html/comment-page-1#comment-325243</link>
		<dc:creator>methinks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Jul 2009 13:31:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=8189#comment-325243</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Price controls always cause prices to rise? How do you figure that?&lt;/i&gt;

A shortage is an expression of rising prices, by the way.  

The first effect of increased demand is an increase in price.  This creates a rent and signals the producer to produce more product to capture the additional return.  The increased production causes prices to fall back again.  If supply is constrained, then the rising price is expressed in shortages.  

This is how inflation was expressed in the Soviet Union in the 1980&#039;s.  People were paid high nominal salaries, but supply of goods was constrained and prices were controlled.  Everything disappeared from the shelves.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Price controls always cause prices to rise? How do you figure that?</i></p>
<p>A shortage is an expression of rising prices, by the way.  </p>
<p>The first effect of increased demand is an increase in price.  This creates a rent and signals the producer to produce more product to capture the additional return.  The increased production causes prices to fall back again.  If supply is constrained, then the rising price is expressed in shortages.  </p>
<p>This is how inflation was expressed in the Soviet Union in the 1980&#8217;s.  People were paid high nominal salaries, but supply of goods was constrained and prices were controlled.  Everything disappeared from the shelves.</p>
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		<title>By: Shannon Love</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/8189.html/comment-page-1#comment-325242</link>
		<dc:creator>Shannon Love</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Jul 2009 13:19:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=8189#comment-325242</guid>
		<description>Dove,

&lt;i&gt;Price controls always cause prices to rise? How do you figure that?&lt;/i&gt;

Counterintuitively they do long-term. The &quot;energy crisis&quot; of the 70&#039;s is the classic example. Price controls removed profit from oil production so people stopped exploring and pumping. It took a while for the effect to show up but after a couple of years, supplies began to fall even through the price was fixed. The first gas shortages in early &#039;73 that gave the Arabs the idea for the embargo, was not accompanied by high prices. Then prices rose while the supply remained constrained by internally and externally. When Reagan did away with the windfall profits tax, prices spiked for two years because of pent up demand and then prices crashed as supplies came on line. 

Price controls send a signal through the market which says that consumers do not want the controlled product. Produces make less of the product which causes shortages. When the price controls fail prices spike until the system readjust.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dove,</p>
<p><i>Price controls always cause prices to rise? How do you figure that?</i></p>
<p>Counterintuitively they do long-term. The &#8220;energy crisis&#8221; of the 70&#8217;s is the classic example. Price controls removed profit from oil production so people stopped exploring and pumping. It took a while for the effect to show up but after a couple of years, supplies began to fall even through the price was fixed. The first gas shortages in early &#8216;73 that gave the Arabs the idea for the embargo, was not accompanied by high prices. Then prices rose while the supply remained constrained by internally and externally. When Reagan did away with the windfall profits tax, prices spiked for two years because of pent up demand and then prices crashed as supplies came on line. </p>
<p>Price controls send a signal through the market which says that consumers do not want the controlled product. Produces make less of the product which causes shortages. When the price controls fail prices spike until the system readjust.</p>
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		<title>By: Dove</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/8189.html/comment-page-1#comment-325236</link>
		<dc:creator>Dove</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Jul 2009 03:43:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=8189#comment-325236</guid>
		<description>Price controls always cause prices to rise?  How do you figure that? 

Price controls cause shortages (if the price is too low) or a surplus of supply / wasted resources (if they&#039;re too high).  

How would they cause prices to rise, though?  Isn&#039;t the point of price controls that they keep prices the same?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Price controls always cause prices to rise?  How do you figure that? </p>
<p>Price controls cause shortages (if the price is too low) or a surplus of supply / wasted resources (if they&#8217;re too high).  </p>
<p>How would they cause prices to rise, though?  Isn&#8217;t the point of price controls that they keep prices the same?</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Kennedy</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/8189.html/comment-page-1#comment-325213</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Kennedy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Jul 2009 21:56:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=8189#comment-325213</guid>
		<description>Methinks, about 30 years ago, I treated a woman of about 40 who developed a small bowel obstruction while on a Soviet cruise ship. Her abdomen became hugely distended, as will happen with an untreated bowel obstruction. The treatment provided by the doctor on the cruise ship was to stick large needles into her abdomen to drain off gas and fluid from her distended bowel. She arrived in San Clemente, CA with raging peritonitis but survived after three or four operations. I was dumfounded at the story but maybe I shouldn&#039;t have been.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Methinks, about 30 years ago, I treated a woman of about 40 who developed a small bowel obstruction while on a Soviet cruise ship. Her abdomen became hugely distended, as will happen with an untreated bowel obstruction. The treatment provided by the doctor on the cruise ship was to stick large needles into her abdomen to drain off gas and fluid from her distended bowel. She arrived in San Clemente, CA with raging peritonitis but survived after three or four operations. I was dumfounded at the story but maybe I shouldn&#8217;t have been.</p>
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		<title>By: sol vason</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/8189.html/comment-page-1#comment-325174</link>
		<dc:creator>sol vason</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Jul 2009 02:54:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=8189#comment-325174</guid>
		<description>Price controls always cause prices to rise.  When price controls are removed prices always fall.

Medicare is a system for imposing price controls.  If Medicare is eliminated, then price controls will be removed and health care prices will fall.  Because eliminating Medicare is impossible health care prices are doomed to continue rising until the health care industry in bankrupt.  Price controls always produce bankruptcy.  

Anyone can name a company or even an industry where price controls have caused market leaders to go bankrupt. No one can name an industry helped by price controls.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Price controls always cause prices to rise.  When price controls are removed prices always fall.</p>
<p>Medicare is a system for imposing price controls.  If Medicare is eliminated, then price controls will be removed and health care prices will fall.  Because eliminating Medicare is impossible health care prices are doomed to continue rising until the health care industry in bankrupt.  Price controls always produce bankruptcy.  </p>
<p>Anyone can name a company or even an industry where price controls have caused market leaders to go bankrupt. No one can name an industry helped by price controls.</p>
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		<title>By: Shannon Love</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/8189.html/comment-page-1#comment-325161</link>
		<dc:creator>Shannon Love</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jul 2009 14:08:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=8189#comment-325161</guid>
		<description>Brett_McS,

&lt;i&gt;I’m wondering if genetic brain enhancement - a very likely prospect for the near future - will finally see leftism thrown to the trash bin?&lt;/i&gt;

I doubt it. Leftism, especially the intellectual variety, is driven by emotional need. Craving for status, for power, envy etc drive leftists to create rationalizations for why they should be in charge. Enhancing intellect will simply give more power to these rationalizations. 

Engineering emotions will be tricky because we use our emotions to decide. People with brain injuries that reduce their emotions also reduce their ability to make decisions even if their intellects are otherwise unaffected.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brett_McS,</p>
<p><i>I’m wondering if genetic brain enhancement &#8211; a very likely prospect for the near future &#8211; will finally see leftism thrown to the trash bin?</i></p>
<p>I doubt it. Leftism, especially the intellectual variety, is driven by emotional need. Craving for status, for power, envy etc drive leftists to create rationalizations for why they should be in charge. Enhancing intellect will simply give more power to these rationalizations. </p>
<p>Engineering emotions will be tricky because we use our emotions to decide. People with brain injuries that reduce their emotions also reduce their ability to make decisions even if their intellects are otherwise unaffected.</p>
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		<title>By: Brett_McS</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/8189.html/comment-page-1#comment-325160</link>
		<dc:creator>Brett_McS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jul 2009 12:44:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=8189#comment-325160</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m wondering if genetic brain enhancement - a very likely prospect for the near future - will finally see leftism thrown to the trash bin?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m wondering if genetic brain enhancement &#8211; a very likely prospect for the near future &#8211; will finally see leftism thrown to the trash bin?</p>
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		<title>By: Oldcrow</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/8189.html/comment-page-1#comment-325144</link>
		<dc:creator>Oldcrow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jul 2009 02:37:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=8189#comment-325144</guid>
		<description>I would add one thing to your parable well actually two, one lefty threw Bob into the water to begin with and two the water was only two inches deep and there never was a crisis to begin with.

If you do the research there are three reasons why health care in a free market goes up:
1. Treatments get more complex for more illnesses therefore they get more expensive.
2. As medical science advances people live longer and get more illnesses that require more expensive care.
3.Government interference. 

With this in mind how do you bring down costs? Well you develop preventive treatments that keep people healthy longer and find cures but in steps the government and blocks this from happening a good example is Malaria and DDT, Malaria was almost completely eliminated when DDT was still legal then some liberal envirowhacko twit writes a book and Government steps in and now a million people a year in Malaria prone area&#039;s die every year and we spend billions using treatments that don&#039;t work.

Another good example is access to more plans, right now because of Government interference you can&#039;t buy a plan in say Wisconsin if you live in New York even though people in Wisconsin pay half what New Yorkers do for the same exact plan even with the same company in a lot of cases! And a lot of states make you buy a full coverage plan instead of a plan for say just emergency room urgent care which would be much cheaper. One other upward pressure on prices is law suites tort reform would fix a lot of the upward price pressure but that is ok Obamacare will fix this problem because you see when all healthcare workers become Government employees the law suites will go away and you can bet Obamacare will begin rationing eventually it is the only way they will be able to control costs.

To quote Ronald Reagan &quot;Government is not the solution to the problem IT IS THE PROBLEM!&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would add one thing to your parable well actually two, one lefty threw Bob into the water to begin with and two the water was only two inches deep and there never was a crisis to begin with.</p>
<p>If you do the research there are three reasons why health care in a free market goes up:<br />
1. Treatments get more complex for more illnesses therefore they get more expensive.<br />
2. As medical science advances people live longer and get more illnesses that require more expensive care.<br />
3.Government interference. </p>
<p>With this in mind how do you bring down costs? Well you develop preventive treatments that keep people healthy longer and find cures but in steps the government and blocks this from happening a good example is Malaria and DDT, Malaria was almost completely eliminated when DDT was still legal then some liberal envirowhacko twit writes a book and Government steps in and now a million people a year in Malaria prone area&#8217;s die every year and we spend billions using treatments that don&#8217;t work.</p>
<p>Another good example is access to more plans, right now because of Government interference you can&#8217;t buy a plan in say Wisconsin if you live in New York even though people in Wisconsin pay half what New Yorkers do for the same exact plan even with the same company in a lot of cases! And a lot of states make you buy a full coverage plan instead of a plan for say just emergency room urgent care which would be much cheaper. One other upward pressure on prices is law suites tort reform would fix a lot of the upward price pressure but that is ok Obamacare will fix this problem because you see when all healthcare workers become Government employees the law suites will go away and you can bet Obamacare will begin rationing eventually it is the only way they will be able to control costs.</p>
<p>To quote Ronald Reagan &#8220;Government is not the solution to the problem IT IS THE PROBLEM!&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Marty</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/8189.html/comment-page-1#comment-325134</link>
		<dc:creator>Marty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Jul 2009 22:04:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=8189#comment-325134</guid>
		<description>&quot;First, do no harm.&quot;

I seem to remember that quote having some connection to medicine...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;First, do no harm.&#8221;</p>
<p>I seem to remember that quote having some connection to medicine&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Marty</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/8189.html/comment-page-1#comment-325133</link>
		<dc:creator>Marty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Jul 2009 21:56:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=8189#comment-325133</guid>
		<description>good, except that in reality (as compared to the parable) there isn&#039;t even an emergency--a problem, yes, but nothing horrible happens if we take 6 months to get it right(er)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>good, except that in reality (as compared to the parable) there isn&#8217;t even an emergency&#8211;a problem, yes, but nothing horrible happens if we take 6 months to get it right(er)</p>
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		<title>By: methinks</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/8189.html/comment-page-1#comment-325128</link>
		<dc:creator>methinks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Jul 2009 19:36:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=8189#comment-325128</guid>
		<description>I got a very good sampling of centrally planned, government run health care when I spent 4 years in and out of Soviet hospitals - an experience I survived by sheer luck and I still shake uncontrollably when visiting a doctor.  I have plenty of reason to snipe and even throttle when faced with a bunch of American Socialists who want to force me into this again.  

Incidentally, besides running out of the LOCAL anesthetic they were using during my MAJOR surgery right in the middle of the procedure and NOT having enough of the rationed stuff to give me another dose, I discovered after coming to America that most of the rest of the &quot;treatments&quot; I received are used as gimmmicky spa treatments for the ladies who lunch set.  That&#039;s how advanced medicine was in the country that was first in space.

So, sorry for the rant, but if they don&#039;t like criticism of the worst, most statist and dangerous idea since Social Security, they can shove it up their Sputnik.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I got a very good sampling of centrally planned, government run health care when I spent 4 years in and out of Soviet hospitals &#8211; an experience I survived by sheer luck and I still shake uncontrollably when visiting a doctor.  I have plenty of reason to snipe and even throttle when faced with a bunch of American Socialists who want to force me into this again.  </p>
<p>Incidentally, besides running out of the LOCAL anesthetic they were using during my MAJOR surgery right in the middle of the procedure and NOT having enough of the rationed stuff to give me another dose, I discovered after coming to America that most of the rest of the &#8220;treatments&#8221; I received are used as gimmmicky spa treatments for the ladies who lunch set.  That&#8217;s how advanced medicine was in the country that was first in space.</p>
<p>So, sorry for the rant, but if they don&#8217;t like criticism of the worst, most statist and dangerous idea since Social Security, they can shove it up their Sputnik.</p>
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		<title>By: Ginny</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/8189.html/comment-page-1#comment-325124</link>
		<dc:creator>Ginny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Jul 2009 18:22:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=8189#comment-325124</guid>
		<description>Well, that the current system has faults may be true.  These policy-makers refuse to acknowledge the good that has come from it; this indicates they haven&#039;t considered what bad could happen if it were not in place.  Imagining a good solution requires more of a sense of history than people in the Obama group seem to have - or have the capacity to imagine.  Then there is graft, a core ingredient of this new administration.  Authoritarianism, statism, and graft are intertwined - ideologues and crooks are not as opposed as we would like to think.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, that the current system has faults may be true.  These policy-makers refuse to acknowledge the good that has come from it; this indicates they haven&#8217;t considered what bad could happen if it were not in place.  Imagining a good solution requires more of a sense of history than people in the Obama group seem to have &#8211; or have the capacity to imagine.  Then there is graft, a core ingredient of this new administration.  Authoritarianism, statism, and graft are intertwined &#8211; ideologues and crooks are not as opposed as we would like to think.</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/8189.html/comment-page-1#comment-325123</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Jul 2009 18:15:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=8189#comment-325123</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Leftist very commonly assert that that non-leftist have to offer a fully fleshed out alternative to the status quo before they can offer criticisms of the current faddish idea of the left.&lt;/i&gt;

Or they assume that if you&#039;re suggesting that an issue be left up to individual choice and free markets, you&#039;re &quot;doing nothing.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Leftist very commonly assert that that non-leftist have to offer a fully fleshed out alternative to the status quo before they can offer criticisms of the current faddish idea of the left.</i></p>
<p>Or they assume that if you&#8217;re suggesting that an issue be left up to individual choice and free markets, you&#8217;re &#8220;doing nothing.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: ElamBend</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/8189.html/comment-page-1#comment-325121</link>
		<dc:creator>ElamBend</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Jul 2009 17:50:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=8189#comment-325121</guid>
		<description>when a group proposes to significantly change a major part of the economy, an essential part, it is not up to the naysayers to offer an alternative, but to the proponents to rationally describe why the change must come.  Complaining that the critics have offered no alternative is a weak, weak rebuttal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>when a group proposes to significantly change a major part of the economy, an essential part, it is not up to the naysayers to offer an alternative, but to the proponents to rationally describe why the change must come.  Complaining that the critics have offered no alternative is a weak, weak rebuttal.</p>
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