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	<title>Comments on: Lies, Damn Lies and&#8230;</title>
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	<description>Some Chicago Boyz know each other from student days at the University of Chicago. Others are Chicago boys in spirit. The blog name is also intended as a good-humored gesture of admiration for distinguished Chicago boys including those pictured above.</description>
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		<title>By: geoffgo</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/9946.html/comment-page-1#comment-328957</link>
		<dc:creator>geoffgo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Oct 2009 22:46:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=9946#comment-328957</guid>
		<description>Thanks David,

Just got here.  IIRC, Christiansen also wrote The Innovator&#039;s Dilemma.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks David,</p>
<p>Just got here.  IIRC, Christiansen also wrote The Innovator&#8217;s Dilemma.</p>
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		<title>By: David Foster</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/9946.html/comment-page-1#comment-328950</link>
		<dc:creator>David Foster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Oct 2009 15:58:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=9946#comment-328950</guid>
		<description>The Gannett story is interesting but not surprising. Companies which are leaders at one stage of a technology are rarely leaders--often, not even survivors--at the next stage. See &lt;a href=&quot;http://photoncourier.blogspot.com/2004_05_01_photoncourier_archive.html#108533291035399783&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;my review of Christensen &amp; Raynor&#039;s book&lt;/a&gt;, a work which does a good job of dealing with this topic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Gannett story is interesting but not surprising. Companies which are leaders at one stage of a technology are rarely leaders&#8211;often, not even survivors&#8211;at the next stage. See <a href="http://photoncourier.blogspot.com/2004_05_01_photoncourier_archive.html#108533291035399783" rel="nofollow">my review of Christensen &amp; Raynor&#8217;s book</a>, a work which does a good job of dealing with this topic.</p>
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		<title>By: geoffgo</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/9946.html/comment-page-1#comment-328948</link>
		<dc:creator>geoffgo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Oct 2009 15:06:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=9946#comment-328948</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Gutenberg never envisioned the chainsaw.&lt;/i&gt; (tm)

So in 1990, living directly across the street in Roslyn, VA and having as my Trival Pursuits partner the Financial Editor of USAToday, I got priviledged access to high-level Gannet management. At that time, they were a successful national paper with regionally printed editions, trying to go local.

My 2-hour presentation was about the dramatic changes the &lt;i&gt;network effect&lt;/i&gt; - (it wasn&#039;t called the Intenet yet) - would wreck on the news business; eg, total devastation of classified ad revenue. I explained that as the network became ubiquitous and its speed inexorably increased, so would its reach and information currency (value) in full-motion color, an exact copy of which would cost virtually nothing.  Bad for the print format - margin squeeze with no competitive response possible, etc.

I proposed my company to outfit them to own what would become craigslist, rent.com and eBay et al. My Mac demo showed how it would work for someone moving from WDC to Boulder, CO - needing a mover to get there; to rent an apartment or buy a house BEFORE they got there; hotel/motel reservations for the interim stay; scheduled telephone-electric-gas-garbage service hook-ups, etc.  Integrated email from USAtoday and lashed-up 800-voice mail for their classified advertisers (sorry, this apt is already rented), etc, etc.  Even credit/debit transaction processing. 

They didn&#039;t believe the &lt;i&gt;ecommerce&lt;/i&gt; potential illustrated on the final slide; which as it turns out, I had sorely understated by at least 10MM-fold....and besides digital classifieds wasn&#039;t their mission.  Oh well, hindsight.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Gutenberg never envisioned the chainsaw.</i> &#8482;</p>
<p>So in 1990, living directly across the street in Roslyn, VA and having as my Trival Pursuits partner the Financial Editor of USAToday, I got priviledged access to high-level Gannet management. At that time, they were a successful national paper with regionally printed editions, trying to go local.</p>
<p>My 2-hour presentation was about the dramatic changes the <i>network effect</i> &#8211; (it wasn&#8217;t called the Intenet yet) &#8211; would wreck on the news business; eg, total devastation of classified ad revenue. I explained that as the network became ubiquitous and its speed inexorably increased, so would its reach and information currency (value) in full-motion color, an exact copy of which would cost virtually nothing.  Bad for the print format &#8211; margin squeeze with no competitive response possible, etc.</p>
<p>I proposed my company to outfit them to own what would become craigslist, rent.com and eBay et al. My Mac demo showed how it would work for someone moving from WDC to Boulder, CO &#8211; needing a mover to get there; to rent an apartment or buy a house BEFORE they got there; hotel/motel reservations for the interim stay; scheduled telephone-electric-gas-garbage service hook-ups, etc.  Integrated email from USAtoday and lashed-up 800-voice mail for their classified advertisers (sorry, this apt is already rented), etc, etc.  Even credit/debit transaction processing. </p>
<p>They didn&#8217;t believe the <i>ecommerce</i> potential illustrated on the final slide; which as it turns out, I had sorely understated by at least 10MM-fold&#8230;.and besides digital classifieds wasn&#8217;t their mission.  Oh well, hindsight.</p>
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		<title>By: david foster</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/9946.html/comment-page-1#comment-328936</link>
		<dc:creator>david foster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Oct 2009 19:28:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=9946#comment-328936</guid>
		<description>One function a newspaper can serve is as an entry point to a group someone desires to affiliate with for status purposes. There are certainly still many circles of people in which *not* knowing what was in the NYT would be looked at askance.

So NYT will probably survive longer than many other papers...but even here, age matters, and I doubt that many people who have grown up with the Internet..say, those now under 25 or so..will ever take the paper as seriously as their elders.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One function a newspaper can serve is as an entry point to a group someone desires to affiliate with for status purposes. There are certainly still many circles of people in which *not* knowing what was in the NYT would be looked at askance.</p>
<p>So NYT will probably survive longer than many other papers&#8230;but even here, age matters, and I doubt that many people who have grown up with the Internet..say, those now under 25 or so..will ever take the paper as seriously as their elders.</p>
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		<title>By: Marty</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/9946.html/comment-page-1#comment-328930</link>
		<dc:creator>Marty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Oct 2009 16:04:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=9946#comment-328930</guid>
		<description>Agree with Xennady---if the decline in circulation is because of Craigslist, that means the newspapers were just glorified &quot;Weekly Shoppers&quot;. Even IF the $$ from ads supported some decent editorial functions, in an economic sense the value to the customer was the ads.

WSJ is indeed the key data point and the answer---a publication has to provide value people are willing to pay for, and get it to them at a cost less than teh revenue stream.  WSJ appears to be doing that at teh national or international scale, as, at the other end of the spectrum, are many suburban weeklies that focus on local news not available elsewhere, and local advertising.

The problem is in the middle--city and metro papers which offer very little news value and now can&#039;t compete for ad revenues, either.  It&#039;s not clear that there IS an answer for many of them, but if not, boo hoo---not the first time an industry or business model was made obsolete by technological and/or societal change.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Agree with Xennady&#8212;if the decline in circulation is because of Craigslist, that means the newspapers were just glorified &#8220;Weekly Shoppers&#8221;. Even IF the $$ from ads supported some decent editorial functions, in an economic sense the value to the customer was the ads.</p>
<p>WSJ is indeed the key data point and the answer&#8212;a publication has to provide value people are willing to pay for, and get it to them at a cost less than teh revenue stream.  WSJ appears to be doing that at teh national or international scale, as, at the other end of the spectrum, are many suburban weeklies that focus on local news not available elsewhere, and local advertising.</p>
<p>The problem is in the middle&#8211;city and metro papers which offer very little news value and now can&#8217;t compete for ad revenues, either.  It&#8217;s not clear that there IS an answer for many of them, but if not, boo hoo&#8212;not the first time an industry or business model was made obsolete by technological and/or societal change.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Kennedy</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/9946.html/comment-page-1#comment-328929</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Kennedy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Oct 2009 16:00:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=9946#comment-328929</guid>
		<description>I was a subscriber to the LA Times for 40 years. Their product was deteriorating badly before Craigslist hit them. At one time, they published regional editions, such as the one for Orange County. Unfortunately for their employees, they never seemed to get the local stories right and the OC Register would always eat their lunch on local stories. What local stories they did print were usually colored by their political bias, not popular in Orange County. For example, I served on the planning commission for the small city where I have lived for 35 years. We were having an invasion of the usual nexus of real estate developers and &quot;public interest&quot; law firms who were trying to force the city to change zoning laws and build more apartments. Of course, the apartments are subsidized and are built in small clusters like instant slums. The Times did a story on how the rich white suburbs of Orange County didn&#039;t want &quot;affordable housing.&quot; The Register did a story about the developers and how they fund the &quot;public interest&quot; law firms. Guess which one was more interesting and pertinent to the current events. The Times story was a rehash of stuff they&#039;ve been writing for decades.

A couple of years later, the Times ended their OC edition. It became a &quot;Section&quot; then disappeared altogether.

Unfortunately, the Register, which has been good on local stories, started using the NY Times service for national and international stories and that did not go well with the readers. Then Craigslist and the local online classifieds arrived.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was a subscriber to the LA Times for 40 years. Their product was deteriorating badly before Craigslist hit them. At one time, they published regional editions, such as the one for Orange County. Unfortunately for their employees, they never seemed to get the local stories right and the OC Register would always eat their lunch on local stories. What local stories they did print were usually colored by their political bias, not popular in Orange County. For example, I served on the planning commission for the small city where I have lived for 35 years. We were having an invasion of the usual nexus of real estate developers and &#8220;public interest&#8221; law firms who were trying to force the city to change zoning laws and build more apartments. Of course, the apartments are subsidized and are built in small clusters like instant slums. The Times did a story on how the rich white suburbs of Orange County didn&#8217;t want &#8220;affordable housing.&#8221; The Register did a story about the developers and how they fund the &#8220;public interest&#8221; law firms. Guess which one was more interesting and pertinent to the current events. The Times story was a rehash of stuff they&#8217;ve been writing for decades.</p>
<p>A couple of years later, the Times ended their OC edition. It became a &#8220;Section&#8221; then disappeared altogether.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, the Register, which has been good on local stories, started using the NY Times service for national and international stories and that did not go well with the readers. Then Craigslist and the local online classifieds arrived.</p>
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		<title>By: Xennady</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/9946.html/comment-page-1#comment-328926</link>
		<dc:creator>Xennady</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Oct 2009 08:14:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=9946#comment-328926</guid>
		<description>Craigslist may have done much to undermine the financial stability of newspapers.

But that&#039;s a telling indication that people who&#039;d been paying for the paper for the news left them a long time previously. 

I know I did.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Craigslist may have done much to undermine the financial stability of newspapers.</p>
<p>But that&#8217;s a telling indication that people who&#8217;d been paying for the paper for the news left them a long time previously. </p>
<p>I know I did.</p>
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		<title>By: sol vason</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/9946.html/comment-page-1#comment-328921</link>
		<dc:creator>sol vason</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Oct 2009 02:26:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=9946#comment-328921</guid>
		<description>&quot;That’s like talking about modern transportation by pointing out that 96 percent of buggy drivers use buggy whips.&quot;

Current research shows that 96% of buggy whip users have never driven a buggy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;That’s like talking about modern transportation by pointing out that 96 percent of buggy drivers use buggy whips.&#8221;</p>
<p>Current research shows that 96% of buggy whip users have never driven a buggy.</p>
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		<title>By: John Jay</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/9946.html/comment-page-1#comment-328918</link>
		<dc:creator>John Jay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 21:44:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=9946#comment-328918</guid>
		<description>Shannon, I was waiting for someone to notice that the WSJ was the exception.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shannon, I was waiting for someone to notice that the WSJ was the exception.</p>
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		<title>By: Shannon Love</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/9946.html/comment-page-1#comment-328917</link>
		<dc:creator>Shannon Love</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 21:36:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=9946#comment-328917</guid>
		<description>When you see a sudden discontinuity such as a dogleg, that usually means that an amplifying feedback loop drives the phenomena. Such feedback loops can run for a long time looking nicely linear and then they pass a threshold and suddenly shoot for the sky. On a constant time plot this looks like a sudden discontinuity. 

The core value of  traditional newspapers was their print production and distribution infrastructure. It took a lot people and equipment to print up hundreds of thousands of copies of newspapers every day and distribute those all over a region. Newspapers were the only means of disseminating large amounts of dense information (imagine the cost and tedium of reading hundreds of classified ads over TV or radio by comparison). The internet rendered that valuable infrastructure obsolete. 

I suspect the dogleg was created by the feedback loop of more and more people getting their information online which drove more people to get their information online and so on until it suddenly snowballed over a period of few months.

However, I don&#039;t think we can entirely dismiss the widespread bias in the media. With the rise of the internet, people began to see what the media left out. The &lt;a href=&quot;http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/004879.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Parliament of Clocks&lt;/a&gt; effect failed and the media fell off the pedestal it had created for itself. 

I also suspect that most newspapers simply don&#039;t deliver much valuable information. How useful to anyone is the political reporting of the NYTimes? When was the last time they broke a big story first? As Jon Stewart pointed out, it was &quot;two kids from High School Musical 3 with their grandmother&#039;s Chinchilla coat&quot; that broke the Acorn story, not the Times or another media giant. They really don&#039;t provide useful information and that is why their attempts to charge for online content have failed. I mean, how much will you pay to see a story that is largely politicians trading barbs at each other&#039;s expense? 

The Wall Street journal prospers behind a paywall because it does produce unique and very detailed business information and that business people will pay good money to read. The information is detailed and dense meaning that excerpts on blogs and other places don&#039;t really capture all the important elements of the stories.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When you see a sudden discontinuity such as a dogleg, that usually means that an amplifying feedback loop drives the phenomena. Such feedback loops can run for a long time looking nicely linear and then they pass a threshold and suddenly shoot for the sky. On a constant time plot this looks like a sudden discontinuity. </p>
<p>The core value of  traditional newspapers was their print production and distribution infrastructure. It took a lot people and equipment to print up hundreds of thousands of copies of newspapers every day and distribute those all over a region. Newspapers were the only means of disseminating large amounts of dense information (imagine the cost and tedium of reading hundreds of classified ads over TV or radio by comparison). The internet rendered that valuable infrastructure obsolete. </p>
<p>I suspect the dogleg was created by the feedback loop of more and more people getting their information online which drove more people to get their information online and so on until it suddenly snowballed over a period of few months.</p>
<p>However, I don&#8217;t think we can entirely dismiss the widespread bias in the media. With the rise of the internet, people began to see what the media left out. The <a href="http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/004879.html" rel="nofollow">Parliament of Clocks</a> effect failed and the media fell off the pedestal it had created for itself. </p>
<p>I also suspect that most newspapers simply don&#8217;t deliver much valuable information. How useful to anyone is the political reporting of the NYTimes? When was the last time they broke a big story first? As Jon Stewart pointed out, it was &#8220;two kids from High School Musical 3 with their grandmother&#8217;s Chinchilla coat&#8221; that broke the Acorn story, not the Times or another media giant. They really don&#8217;t provide useful information and that is why their attempts to charge for online content have failed. I mean, how much will you pay to see a story that is largely politicians trading barbs at each other&#8217;s expense? </p>
<p>The Wall Street journal prospers behind a paywall because it does produce unique and very detailed business information and that business people will pay good money to read. The information is detailed and dense meaning that excerpts on blogs and other places don&#8217;t really capture all the important elements of the stories.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/9946.html/comment-page-1#comment-328916</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 20:42:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=9946#comment-328916</guid>
		<description>&quot;One of my academic advisors used to day that any argument without numbers is a religious one.&quot;

Hmmm.  Have you read anything by Ronald Coase?  His thought experiments are far more effective -- and far more falsifiable --  than most of the number-crunching exercises that serve to obscure economics.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;One of my academic advisors used to day that any argument without numbers is a religious one.&#8221;</p>
<p>Hmmm.  Have you read anything by Ronald Coase?  His thought experiments are far more effective &#8212; and far more falsifiable &#8212;  than most of the number-crunching exercises that serve to obscure economics.</p>
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		<title>By: Joseph Somsel</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/9946.html/comment-page-1#comment-328912</link>
		<dc:creator>Joseph Somsel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 19:28:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=9946#comment-328912</guid>
		<description>Problem is that news can only be owned for a finite period.  In the days of print, that might be one or two days, max.  Once you publish, the other media would pick up and replicate.  Still, a day or two is something.

Now, ownership is measured in minutes and that is under the physical production and distribution cycle for print media.

As to your specific question, wasn&#039;t there a big scandal about phoney circulation numbers about then?  It was analogous to the pumped up oil reserve valuations that some oil companies published.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Problem is that news can only be owned for a finite period.  In the days of print, that might be one or two days, max.  Once you publish, the other media would pick up and replicate.  Still, a day or two is something.</p>
<p>Now, ownership is measured in minutes and that is under the physical production and distribution cycle for print media.</p>
<p>As to your specific question, wasn&#8217;t there a big scandal about phoney circulation numbers about then?  It was analogous to the pumped up oil reserve valuations that some oil companies published.</p>
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		<title>By: John Jay</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/9946.html/comment-page-1#comment-328910</link>
		<dc:creator>John Jay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 17:47:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=9946#comment-328910</guid>
		<description>Daran, speaking of Metro - when did the aircards that allow commuters to access the Net from trains take off? I see fewer and fewer paper newspapers on the train these days.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Daran, speaking of Metro &#8211; when did the aircards that allow commuters to access the Net from trains take off? I see fewer and fewer paper newspapers on the train these days.</p>
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		<title>By: Daran</title>
		<link>http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/9946.html/comment-page-1#comment-328907</link>
		<dc:creator>Daran</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 17:15:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chicagoboyz.net/?p=9946#comment-328907</guid>
		<description>Next to Craiglist, Monsterboard and other job sites. Add pressure from free newspapers like Metro (servicing commuters with a daily update) and the first waves of ebook readers. Interesting times.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Next to Craiglist, Monsterboard and other job sites. Add pressure from free newspapers like Metro (servicing commuters with a daily update) and the first waves of ebook readers. Interesting times.</p>
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