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  • Rape is Rape, But Some People Have a Problem With The Concept

    Posted by James R. Rummel on June 30th, 2008 (All posts by )

    Long time readers know that I run a charity self defense course for violent crime survivors. I’ve been doing it for so long that word of mouth brings me more work than I can handle.

    But it wasn’t always like that. When I was just starting out, decades ago, I would visit encounter groups and seminars to pass out some business cards and let people look me over so they wouldn’t be so self conscious if they dialed my number. Some of these seminars were more crowded than others.

    The first seminar I ever attended for male rape victims was at one of the local hotels here in Columbus, Ohio. I was shocked to see how many people were there! It was standing room only, with men leaning against the walls and sitting in the aisles between rows of folding chairs.

    The paragraph above makes it sound like there was a huge crowd packed into a big auditorium. The seminar was being conducted in a conference room that could seat maybe 40 people. There had to be close to one hundred who turned up, though, and I could see that more than a few men would turn around and walk away as soon as they saw the size of the crowd.

    Most people just cannot get past the false impression that rape is a sexual act between a man and women. If a male is raped, then it must be male-on-male rape performed in prison or other extraordinary circumstances where women are unavailable. I was no different at the time, even though I had some small experience in law enforcement.

    The fact of the matter is that rape is almost always an act of dominance, something which the feminist movement has been talking about for awhile. At the time I had my epiphany back in 1991 or so, there were twice as many males who were victims of violent crime than there were female victims. It seems reasonable to assume that there were at least twice as many male rape victims as females. This also aligns with my own experiences.

    But it is extremely difficult to prove such a thing. Males are supposed to be tough, self reliant, capable enough to provide their own defense. To stand up in front of an authority figure such as a police officer and admit to having been raped is extremely difficult, and most male victims find it to be impossible.

    But what happens if a male victim is raped by a woman? How much more difficult would it be to admit that a woman had gotten the best of them?

    Women can certainly be criminals, even depraved and violent criminals. Wouldn’t it be reasonable to assume that a female would occasionally victimize a male in such a manner?

    I’m discussing this because of this article by Dr. Helen. Below is the passage that spoke the loudest to me.

    Women have much more psychological and legal power against men in our society and blackmail is very easy, given the current legal and political climate. Women know that men and boys have no or little legal recourse against them and use this to their advantage to get what they want. If you don’t believe this, take a look at Crystal Gail Mangum who made false rape charges against the Duke students. Any jail time for her? Nope. Her reward for lying? She just finished her bachelors degree in “criminal psychology” of all things!

    Our society shames men who are abused by women just as it shamed and blamed women many years ago who were abused by men. Neither strategy is a good one for a society that purports to promote justice and fairness.

    She has a point. As the man says, read the whole thing.

    (Hat tip to Glenn, and I’ve cross posted this at Hell in a Handbasket.)

     

    26 Responses to “Rape is Rape, But Some People Have a Problem With The Concept”

    1. Shannon Love Says:

      I heard a story second hand about a male teacher targeted by a female minor student. She wanted to have sex with him and told him if he did not she would claim they had a relationship anyway and destroy his career and marriage. He took stock of the situation and took the only avenue available to him: he resigned his position and left town. I don’t if this story is true but it is plausible and that in and of itself points to a serious flaw in our justice system and culture.

      We usually think of rape in terms of direct immediate violence but rape can occur by using whatever power a rapist has at hand that he or she can hold over the victim. For example, a boss who threatens to fire an employee unless the employee submits to sexual advances. In the modern environment, women can threaten men with the lose of their livelihoods, property, freedom and reputation by threatening to use the legal system and public opinion to destroy their lives.

      I knew a man who had built up a security business from scratch with 15 years of hard work. His firm specialized in providing security to women’s dormitories. In a moment of anger, a girlfriend of his threatened to make a false charge of rape against him. She could do so without publicly revealing her name. Just the accusation would have ruined his business.

      I find it most disturbing that such tactics only work against honest men of honor. A dishonorable man will simply give into the women’s demands with little care to his other commitments. Only a man sworn to a marriage or the protection of students or employees can be attacked in such a manner.

    2. Ginny Says:

      Shannon often looks at the positive side – I’ll note that this thread indicates a positive one.

      The nineteenth century saw an incredible change in society’s attitudes toward man on woman crime (about the only crimes that had stiffer penalties in England in 1900 than 1800 had to do with wife beating, rape, etc.). We live with the rule of law which constrains a man’s natural advantage in strength and more easily prompted (and assertive) sexual passions. A sense of honor, as Shannon notes, has been a strong tool in that constraint.

      While we must change our attitudes concerning what is clearly an abuse of that system by women, we should be thankful that this is our problem rather than the rampant rape of women true in earlier cultures (and now in European countries who may value metrosexuality but are importing a very different definition of male/female roles).

      Of course, it was idiotic to give women the kind of power you two are describing and we saw evidenced in the Duke case. Where did anyone get the idea that power doesn’t corrupt women? This is perhaps the stupidest assumption of a certain kind of feminist – that women are immune to the tugs of lust – for power, for sex, for money. What may be more true at Duke, where did they get the idea that women can’t be both foolish and vindictive. They complain about the Victorian patriarchy and ignore the fact that those very values gave us incredible power that a modern woman, who has taken assertiveness training and enjoys the looks her mini-skirt evokes, uses (abuses) rather than respects.

      And we haven’t even gotten into the accusations by women in divorce hearings that their ex-husbands were perverts; especially ironic when their children are likely to be harmed by the ex-wife’s new male friends – a percentage incredibly higher than that of father/daughter incest (which is extremely rare).

    3. fred lapides Says:

      Anecdotal cases here…a decent lawyer would beat many alleged rape cases–there is DNA, stains, etc etc as witnessed in the Duke case. A bit of anger because the lady making the charges seems to become a lAw officer–I
      doubt she will have a decent career with her record, for the Duke cAse (ashe was a stripper) and earlier charges.

      Also an issue: many women physical abuse husbands because men are programmed not to strike women and the woman, aware of this believes she can get away with an assault. And men, in this situation, often do not report this for imagined loss of “manhood,” in being beaten by a woman.

      In my past, I had been assaulted with a bread knife by an ex-spouse. I protected myself with an attache case and shoved the woman away from me. She called the cops. I was nearly arrested and the cop said: You call yourself a man? when I showed him my attache case, with 3 stab marks, he told us both to cool it and left us to work things out. Since I was on my way out the house to go out of town for a few days, we had a cooling off period. Needless to say, we later divorced. But I did get a new attache case from my assailent!

    4. ck Says:

      Not buying it. Now, don’t break a nail trying to get your smelling salts out of your purse. An erection is required for penetration. An erection requires arousal on the part of the male.There is no power on this planet(or any other) that could make me sport an erection in the presence of Madeline Halfbright or Helen Thomas.

    5. JF Says:

      CK: I’m sorry you were castrated, but for most of us, arousal is involuntary.
      Besides, since when does a perpetrator need to be ugly for rape to be rape?

    6. James R. Rummel Says:

      “An erection is required for penetration. An erection requires arousal on the part of the male.”

      The only thing needed to produce an erection is manipulation of the prostate.

      Most people believe the myth that there has to be some sort of arousal for an erection, and it is one of the major reasons why male victims of rape usually undergo extreme psychological distress.

      “There is no power on this planet(or any other) that could make me sport an erection in the presence of Madeline Halfbright or Helen Thomas.”

      I figure a carrot where the sun don’t shine should suffice.

      James

    7. Lexington Green Says:

      I could happily live without these sickening clinical details.

    8. James R. Rummel Says:

      “I could happily live without these sickening clinical details.”

      Oh, man, so could I!

      But keep in mind that we are discussing a violent, terrible crime which destroys lives. Also keep in mind that I’ve devoted my adult life, and I made some significant personal sacrifices, to try and prevent such crimes from occurring.

      If someone is going to deny the possibility of such a crime happening to them, then part of my job is to try and make an impression in an effort to shock them awake.

      James

    9. Russ Says:

      Um, CK, ever heard of “morning wood?”

      What caused arousal in those cases?

    10. Robert Says:

      “Not buying it. Now, don’t break a nail trying to get your smelling salts out of your purse. An erection is required for penetration. An erection requires arousal on the part of the male.There is no power on this planet(or any other) that could make me sport an erection in the presence of Madeline Halfbright or Helen Thomas.”

      Nope, one doesn’t need to be aroused to obtain an erection. The aforementioned morning wood being the best example (and, if you ask me, being f*cking annoying). And really, the dude was drunk and passed out, how the hell can one get aroused being drunk and passed out?

      Erections are physiological responses. It’s blood rushing into the penis. Orgasms are physiological responses too. Did you know the female orgasm is nothing more then a way for the female body to ease the pain of childbirth? Google it, birthgasms. That’s not implying that childbirth is at all enjoyable.

      You serve nothing and no one by perpetuating silly myths (also by pretending to be a male…you might be the first person on the internet not impersonating a voluptuous 17 year old). Jesus, might as well go back to when everyone figured women were raped cause they were asking for it by dressing like total wh*res.

    11. jeff Says:

      Most men have at least some idea that with power comes responsiblity. This understanding is less common among women–throughout most of history, men had physical and legal power and it was important to develop ideas like chivalry to keep this power under control. For women, who had much less power, moral education was mainly about sexual matters. Now that this has mostly gone by the wayside, the message to women from society is mainly “grab what you can, you’re entitled.” Girls are taught to be princesses who are adored rather than cowboys or soldiers who try to save others.

      Given the nature of the indoctrination, it’s actually amazing that there are as many decent and thoughtful women as there are.

    12. Shannon Love Says:

      Ck,

      I presume then that you must be the only man in human history whose never had an erection when they didn’t want one? Granted, a man might not get an erection on command with someone he finds physically objectionable but what about the much more common problem of getting an erection with someone who is physically acceptable but otherwise unacceptable?

      We all encounter sexual arousal by the presence of people our morality forbids us from actually boinking. What if one of those people decides to force you into a sexual relationship. Could you actually be so sure you wouldn’t stand at attention?

    13. andrewdb Says:

      My former brother-in-law is a high school teacher. On occasion they show some animal husbandry film to the students. The high school boys in particular find it unsettling to see just how one obtains the materiel for artificial insemination from a stallion – it involves prostate manipulation and an electric probe.

    14. Windy Wilson Says:

      “Jesus, might as well go back to when everyone figured women were raped cause they were asking for it by dressing like total wh*res.”

      Ironies of ironies, now they do!

    15. Tatyana Says:

      So, James, let me get this straight: you’re claiming, that majority of those 10 or so men you saw attending the men-rape-seminar, were raped by women? And your definition of rape expands to women using their powerful position in the workplace to talk men into having sex with them?

    16. Tatyana Says:

      So, James, let me get this straight: you’re claiming, that majority of those 100 or so men you saw attending the men-rape-seminar, were raped by women? And your definition of rape expands to women using their powerful position in the workplace to talk men into having sex with them?

      Windy (Wendy?)Wilson: it’s not “irony of ironies”, it’s still the prevailing male attitude – as confirmed by your comment

      Jeff: so, you put an equal sign between “grab what you can, you’re entitled” and “Girls are taught to be princesses who are adored”? In your mind the spoiled brat who is used to being adored is equivalent of a rapist?

    17. Tatyana Says:

      Apologies for double posting

    18. James R. Rummel Says:

      “So, James, let me get this straight: you’re claiming, that majority of those 100 or so men you saw attending the men-rape-seminar, were raped by women?”

      This is an attempt to create a straw man. In my post above, I very clearly state…

      “Women can certainly be criminals, even depraved and violent criminals. Wouldn’t it be reasonable to assume that a female would occasionally victimize a male in such a manner?”

      Tell me how anyone can equate the word “occasionally” with “majority”.

      “And your definition of rape expands to women using their powerful position in the workplace to talk men into having sex with them?”

      Point to a single instance where I said anything of the sort. My focus is on violent crime, not sexual harassment.

      Two attempts to construct a straw man in as many sentences. You should run for office.

      James

    19. Robert Says:

      “Tatyana Says:

      it’s not “irony of ironies”, it’s still the prevailing male attitude – as confirmed by your comment”

      Jeez, lady, I don’t think I wanna know what circles you run in where this is the case. My advice, get better friends.

    20. Tatyana Says:

      Robert, my friends are my friends exactly because they don’t have those attitudes. And they know I’m a lady, so there is no need to state the obvious. But to make an observation about male attitudes as I did, you would only need to be a woman on the street of any big city on a hot day. Or read blogs.

      James:
      no strawmen. That’s the image I got after reading the paragraph about about “false impression about rape”. And then your comments in this thread.

      Please, be specific and explain to me how “would it be reasonable to assume that a female would occasionally victimize a male in such a manner”. What “such manne”? I can’t imagine a woman, even let’s say, twice heavier than man, would physically restrain him in order to have sex with him, by way of showing her dominance.
      Also, please explain to me the connection your talking about rape of males in the post, and then quoted Dr.Helen’s paragraph about blackmail and legal power that women had and that men supposedly don’t have a recourse against – and you said she has a point there. So which is it, blackmail and false accusations of male raping women or an actual violent rape that women perpetuate on men you had in mind?
      You’re the one talking around, not me.

    21. James R. Rummel Says:

      “I can’t imagine a woman, even let’s say, twice heavier than man, would physically restrain him in order to have sex with him, by way of showing her dominance.”

      The threat of harm from a weapon will coerce. That is how the majority of male rapists gain power over their victims. The thought that a woman is required to go hand-to-hand is risible.

      “Also, please explain to me the connection your talking about rape of males in the post, and then quoted Dr.Helen’s paragraph about blackmail and legal power that women had and that men supposedly don’t have a recourse against – and you said she has a point there. So which is it, blackmail and false accusations of male raping women or an actual violent rape that women perpetuate on men you had in mind? You’re the one talking around, not me.”

      Another straw man. Let us take a look at what you said previously….

      “And your definition of rape expands to women using their powerful position in the workplace to talk men into having sex with them?”

      Odd, that. I don’t see anything in either my own words or Dr. Helen’s quote that mentions the workplace, or anything about women who “talk men into having sex with them”. Where in the world did you get that idea? Unless you think that Crystal Gail Magnum was blackmailing the Duke lacrosse team so she could get them into bed.

      But it is obvious that confusion reigns at the Tatyana homestead, so let me cut down Dr. Helen’s words even further so you can finally make sense of things.

      “Women know that men and boys have no or little legal recourse against them and use this to their advantage to get what they want.”

      (snip)

      “Our society shames men who are abused by women just as it shamed and blamed women many years ago who were abused by men. Neither strategy is a good one for a society that purports to promote justice and fairness.”

      If you have any further questions, then please don’t hesitate to ask. But you might want to stop making stuff up. That is what caused me to get annoyed in the first place.

      James

    22. Tatyana Says:

      In my “homestead” there is no confusion.
      This whole issue is nonsense, thought up by whiny victimhood-seeking people.

    23. James R. Rummel Says:

      “This whole issue is nonsense, thought up by whiny victimhood-seeking people.”

      Isn’t that exactly what was said, back in the day, when women first tried to raise awareness of rape?

      James

    24. Louis Wheeler Says:

      Tatyana, you are trying to maintain a Double Standard. These are not people proclaiming themselves victims;they are not marching to get attention. They were covertly dealing with a problem. Part of their problem is that neither they, or their society, would accept that they have been damaged. People like yourself can be totally insensitive or mocking. You refuse to believe that there can be evil women who abuse men.

      That is one of the problems of Radical Feminism: you start asking for equality, but end up asking for special privileges. The radicals codify this by saying, “Women don’t lie about sex.” Which is another way of saying that men are always in the wrong. How is this different from any other prejudice?

    25. Karl Says:

      I hate all the Women out there posting stuff like “Ya right, guys cant be raped by women, and by the way, im a guy”
      Its just like someone on a racist post, someone who is black, saying “Blac peope are just as good as everyone else or better, they cn not be racist they are black, and im white by the way.”

      I am going to try to make this simple, Men CAN be raped BY WOMEN, any FORCED sexual intercourse, whether it happens to be ORAL, ANAL, or TRADITIONAL. Quit it with this garbage you retarted feminists and women.

    26. Karl Says:

      Sorry my keyboard is low n batrs an mises ltrs