Chicago Boyz

                 
 
 
What Are Chicago Boyz Readers Reading?
 

 
  •   Enter your email to be notified of new posts:
    Loading
  •   Problem? Question?
  •   Contact Authors:

  • Blog Posts (RSS 2.0)
  • Blog Posts (Atom 0.3)
  • Incoming Links
  • Recent Comments

    • Loading...
  • Authors

  • Notable Discussions

  • Recent Posts

  • Blogroll

  • Categories

  • Archives

  • Only on Bended Knee Should You Address Us

    Posted by Ginny on January 14th, 2021 (All posts by )

    Our betters on the left can’t seem to distinguish between reading 1984 as dystopia or guidebook. That doesn’t mean they didn’t learn something, though more probably from the communism that so rightly disturbed Orwell.

    Hannity can be irritating, but today his response to the impeachment seemed correct – that he (and the right in general) were not invested, interested in the impeachment. It seemed little different from every other political subversion of Trump’s presidency. And with only days left, it also seems silly. The left’s apparent motives are, nonetheless, maddening.

    Clyburn said what many appear to be thinking, that impeachment would mean Trump couldn’t run again. I resent that. After last week, I muttered about not wanting to vote for him again. Later, hearing more of his speech and seeing it printed, I realized (as so often, as in the Charlottesville remarks that began his term) it was more sensible than the media implied. Of course, it did mislead in important ways: his argument that Pence could overturn an election was just wrong. For someone whose policies had consistently devolved power by sending it to the states, even to families, this was not all that characteristic (though given his repeated slips into braggadocio not unsurprising). This speech presented an easy target (though given its timing versus that of those storming the Capitol, it is hard to see its effect as central as the left claimed.)

    But who gave the Democrats in Congress the right to limit my choices in future elections? This reminds me of my constant directions to my husband (ones I will probably not know if he followed through): don’t keep me alive if I descend into what our family sometimes jokes (and sometimes doesn’t) as the “Edmondson syndrome.” (This is a hereditary tendency toward dementia – or at least appeared so in a small town where we knew connections to our third and fourth and probably fifth cousins, as well as those closer. And it wasn’t always pretty). Still, I don’t want him to let the government decide. I trust my husband’s often too kind heart but I don’t Ezekiel Emanuel’s. Of course, Republican nominations and how we die are only two of many decisions that the left seems to consider itself capable of making with more expertise and wisdom than we. However, wisdom hardly characterizes attempts to “unify” the country by insulting a good half.

    This whole impeachment farce seems motivated by many memes – offering a crisis far too juicy to waste. It is used to justify dehumanizing Trump and his voters, rendering them friendless, jobless, wandering in the pale. (Re. David Foster’s post – if half the country becomes serfs overnight, instituting feudalism will be relatively easy.) It will damage the Republican party: how many of the ten will be primaried? How fraught will be appointments to committees, positions on party policy? It defines protest and even reasoned argument as treason (a high crime in any sensible society) then proceeds by using this definition to take away rights, “othering” the right. I couldn’t understand the uniform use of the word “insurrection”. However, it was purposeful as it provided a better cudgel than descriptor: establishing Biden’s legitimacy and undercutting Trump’s.

    But isn’t a motive also a refusal to accept any statement from Trump – and the senators who objected on that day and Trump spokesman and, well, everyone – that notes the flawed nature of the election. Democrats objected to the election of every one of the last Republican presidents, but after this messy, certainly unusual and certainly curious election, the left want no modifiers to a full throated embrace of the results. At that demand many reasonably balked. There are two realities – Biden won, the system that elected him was flawed.

    Up to some point the requested statements seemed reasonable – that Biden had won the election, that the recounts had confirmed the totals, that there was no way to effectively challenge the results. But in the next step, the media/left expected doubts to disappear. The only sane, “real” conclusion was theirs: the election stood pristine before us. They would brook no “deniers” and noting discrepancies was “sedition” and “insurrection.” But we haven’t all reached that degree of short term memory loss.

    Nor is Trump likely to agree. His obsession with his own success and his apparent belief he won in a landslide are truths to him; this characterizes his unattractive and quite personal pride and bombast. However, while we sometimes believed an apology would have been appropriate, we also appreciated that he wasn’t bull shitting us – he said what he thought and he wasn’t going to say 2 + 2 = 5, not if he thought it didn’t.

    He won’t bend. And it is the bending they want. For one thing, they don’t really want to fix the flaws in the election process. That requires much work in each state. Some general “best practices” might be suggested by a national committee, but as each state develops a system that satisfies its needs, they must acknowledge vulnerabilities to fraud; they must also assume an overvote is as much theft as voter suppression. Any “best practices” would reject the bill Pelosi unsuccessfully pushed before the Covid crisis, but which was swept in, shielded from critics by pandemic fears. The resulting sloppy, easily gamed elections put us where we are today. Politicians have less taste for such undertakings than one would assume from the jobs they chose. If nothing is done, an upside for the left, Republicans will need to reconcile themselves to decades of losses.

    But bending has another goal. We see it in this case but in many other pressures from the left. The goal is submission: to publicly define any rejection of the left’s bold, unmodified statements as denying truth. And then to assert the left’s truth as our own. The carrot is membership in this community of “right thinkers”, the whip black listing, at its worst a mob milling around your house and at its best social “othering”, at its best being overlooked for promotions, at its worst being banned from work. Fearing the cudgel, many become hesitant to offer opinions until the left’s “truth” of the day has been clearly repeated by others, quickly adjusting to the vagaries of the left. Pelosi tore up Trump’s speech: this was senseless and vulgar, prompted by her desire to exterminate him and his followers.

    Trump may have his own way of looking at the world, but the left chooses to make any other “truth” than theirs disappear, not just extinct but its mention extinguished. (Preparing the way for a one-party system, of course). But we know Antifa is not just an idea, traditional pronouns communicate facts of gender and number, this country is not systematically racist. We know that the just past election was, well, sketchy. We also know equality comes from respect for the individual and the worth of every human being – from natural law, recognizing a spiritual and legal equality. We know that an “equity” that attempts to level and reach into every aspect of our lives is untrue and detrimental. In the end, the left wants to define as lie, to exterminate, the rich heritage and powerful example of freedom (and liberty) in our history and our heroes. They begin by attempting to submerge the basic rights of speech and publication, to guns and to property, religion and press. Their offer is a certain warm belonging, but it is truly the embrace of quick sand which buries our rights, including to a fairly counted vote.

     

    40 Responses to “Only on Bended Knee Should You Address Us”

    1. Brian Says:

      IANAL, but I still don’t see how the Congress can limit the eligibility for federal elected offices by impeachment if they can’t do so by legislation. It seems to me if they try, Trump will sue and easily win.
      I don’t think he should run again, pass the mantle to someone else. And if anyone in DC think they’re going to be his heir, they are hilariously mistaken.
      The Dems want to divide the GOP, and hold their fragile coalition together a bit longer.
      Keep your chin up, none of the garbage from DC is making a difference in the country, no one cares what the MSM/DNC says anymore.

    2. Anonymous Says:

      I think Denesh D’Souza’s new pod cast on Rumble has a sober and sound take on things.

      Death6

    3. george m weinberg Says:

      Here’s what the Constitution says about imppeachment:

      The Senate shall have the sole Power to try all Impeachments. When sitting for that Purpose, they shall be on Oath or Affirmation. When the President of the United States is tried, the Chief Justice shall preside: And no Person shall be convicted without the Concurrence of two thirds of the Members present.

      Judgment in Cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States: but the Party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment and Punishment, according to Law.


      So the Senate can indeed disqualify Trump from becoming President again. Although they need not do so, even if they convict. Alcee Hastings was a federal judge who was impeached and removed from office, but was not disqualified from future office and is in the House of Representatives today.

    4. David Foster Says:

      Financial TImes this morning reports that DeBlasio and crew are cancelling city contracts with the Trump Organization.

      We’ll see if they really have the legal and contractual authority to do this.

      Very much like a Civil equivalent of a Bill of Attainder.

    5. Brian Says:

      Go away George. Plenty of legal authorities agree that elected officials, unlike judgeships and other appointed positions, don’t fall under that description. It’d surely be litigated to the Supreme Court, but it’s moot because he’s not going to be convicted because there aren’t 1/3 of GOP Senators who want to destroy their party.

    6. Linda S Fox Says:

      Come on!
      The judiciary has been co-opted by the Left, and will twist whatever laws exist, to reach the conclusion that favors the Dems.
      Same with the Supreme Court.
      The court system will NOT save the Non-Leftist Dissidents (NLDs).
      We’re on our own.

    7. PenGun Says:

      Its almost like they sprung a trap. Trump said just enough stupid and people invaded the Congress. They kinda have him on instigating insurrection, and the more insightful members of the right, are rightly worried about the fate of the Republican party.

    8. phwest Says:

      George – arguably the Presidency is not an office under the United States. Its pretty technical, but basically while the Presidency is an office OF the United States, the class of offices UNDER the United States refers only to lesser (non-elected) offices. There are scholars on both sides of the issue and the matter has never been adjudicated. I first saw this in the context of the emoluments clause cases, as that clause has similar language.

      Hastings is a different case. Seats in Congress are not “offices” at all (that is quite clear constitutionally), and so his impeachment could not prevent him from standing as a candidate and being elected. Congress, in theory, could have decided not to seat him under its own rules, but did not do so. Congress has the power not to seat an elected candidate, but not to prohibit a person from running.

      See Seth Barrett Tillman (New Reform Club blog) for this argument in the context of the emoluments clause. Extending it to impeachment is just me, but I can’t see why the same logic wouldn’t apply, and since no President has actually been convicted there is no reason for the courts to have ruled on it.

      Personally, I hope this never gets to the Supreme Court one way or another (in terms of Trump at least). I can’t imagine the resulting circus would be good for anyone. But that can be said for any number of things that have been done over the last few years unfortunately.

    9. Anonymous Says:

      https://img1.wsimg.com/blobby/go/be36dc6d-0df4-4c20-addf-fca72be46150/The%20Navarro%20Report%20Volume%20III%20Final%201.13.21-0001.pdf

      Dunno how this will post, but it is the 3rd version of the Navarro report on election ‘questions’.

      Seems there appear to be ~3M votes that should not be counted…

      I do not think the 70+M who cast ballots for DJT will accept Biden as POTUS. They have good reason and will continue to have doubt… until and unless the left faces the questions that were buried by them and the media post 11/3. They made zero allowance for any question, but failed to provide rational explanations for the apparent election fraud. Therefor, questions remain, and will continue to remain outstanding.
      Biden will be a lame-duck the moment he’s sworn in.
      DJT made no invocation to the audience to riot, invade, destroy, or anything other than peaceful expression, allowed by our Bill of Rights. Watch or read the transcript. n.b. in all other R gatherings in 2020 the zero fires, murders, assaults, etc. None.

      Many have made much more inflammatory remarks and received no approbation. DJT is the exception, and unfairly targeted by the left and media. I don’t think the Congress’ impeachment, along with the ‘temporary rules change to allow castigations’ when debating the impeachment and Article 25 legislation will sell well with the public should they be made aware. The power hungry hateful person who is Speaker has made clear her dementia when Trump is the subject. Kinda like the skipper of the Pequod.

    10. tomw Says:

      Pengun, the fate of the Republican party seemed to be determined by the actions of the Senate majority leader who failed to back the Republican candidate for president. He also orchestrated the override of the veto of a bill he and Ms Pelosi cooked up to show the world that Congress(both houses) were doing ‘business as usual’ on the banks of the Potoomac. IOW, more pork-stuffed bills, more money spent to fatten favorite groups’ wallets, and more lobbyists wish lists fulfilled, CONTRARY to the action under the Trump administration(to some degree).
      Their $$ fest would continue and the troublesome Trump would be sent to the proverbial woodshed.
      This was absolutely contrary to the wishes of the electorate that put Trump in office, re-elected R congress and senate candidates at a high rate(no incumbent losses, and contested seats were also won).
      The R party is committing suicide by ignoring what its voters indicated they desire. The election for POTUS was stolen to the tune of 3 million illegal votes, ten times the margin of ‘victory’ for the Biden candidacy. The party not only abandoned the candidate, they abandoned their voters. Their millions spent in Georgia bought little reaction as they indicated their disdain for the apparent election problems and Trump, but wanted the voters to support their Senate candidates nonetheless.
      Who abandoned who? Not my call, but I know what I think.

    11. Gavin Longmuir Says:

      George MW: “When the President of the United States is tried, the Chief Justice shall preside … Judgment in Cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office …”

      After Jan 20, Donald Trump will not be the recognized President of the United States — it will be that other guy, the senile Chinese-funded usurper. Since the former President is not in office, it would seem that an honest lawyer — if such a thing exists — could successfully argue that the Senate has no power to impeach a private citizen.

      Clearly, the intent of the Constitutional language was to provide an avenue to remove a President who was in office and doing wrong (getting BJs from civil servants or taking money from the Ukraine, for example). The language says nothing about providing an avenue for politicized with hunts against former Presidents.

      Epstein did not kill himself, and Beijing Biden did not get 80+ Million valid votes.

    12. Brian Says:

      “Epstein did not kill himself”
      Since we can’t say the election was stolen, and soon enough any sort of dismissal of the legitimacy of Beijing Joe and Willie Brown’s…you know…I fully expect EDNKH to become a codeword for those of us in the Resistance (I’m sure that term will be banned soon as well) to be able to identify each other.

    13. miguel cervantes Says:

      it’s a scenario, that wouldn’t have flown as a script on law and order, or heck even knight rider in the 80s, what is striking is epstein’s enablers were left mostly in place, deutsch bank, les wexner, the apollo groups leon black, owner of telemundo,

    14. PenGun Says:

      Apparently Deutsch Bank has told Trump they are done with him. They say he owes them 300 mill and it comes due in a year or two, I believe. They were, I think, his main banker.

    15. Jonathan Says:

      Thanks, Ginny.

    16. Mike K Says:

      Financial expert PenGun has weighed in on Trump’s loans . When did you move from garbage man to finance?

      Forget it. Don’t respond. Castro’s boy is calling you.

    17. PenGun Says:

      Here ya go Mike: https://www.dw.com/en/deutsche-bank-cuts-ties-with-donald-trump-us-media/a-56200600

    18. JaimeRoberto Says:

      I think they are relying on Section 3 of the 14th Amendment to prevent him from running again.

      “No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any state, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any state legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any state, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same.”

      I suppose it would explain how the word “insurrection” appeared so quickly in the media.

    19. Doctor Weasel Says:

      Ginny,
      How do you square this “apparent belief he won in a landslide” with your comments on how sloppy our elections are? Don’t you think the Democrats know exactly how sloppy our elections are? Why deny that they will fix whatever they can, and that they fixed this one?

    20. Kirk Says:

      The thing is, Jaime, if they manage to convict and bar Trump from office again…? What the hell happens to nearly the entirety of the Democratic Party membership that’s on record for saying the same things or worse?

      Convict Trump, and they’ve condemned themselves. The only thing that saves them from destruction and mass tribunals at that point will be them somehow maintaining control of the entire system, which we’ve already seen demonstrated still has around 75 million people who aren’t at all on board with it.

      End point for them convincing the middle range that they’re dangerous and untrustworthy…? LOL.

      Idjits are playing with fire, thinking they can’t be burnt. It’s like what that idiot Harry Reid did with the judicial rules, thinking they’d never lose power.

      They really don’t have much of a majority; convince enough people that they’re nuts, and the whole thing blows up in their faces, and in rather short order.

      Condemn Trump, convict him, and that’s only Act One of the disaster. Act Two will see the same people going after him on the chopping block. Or, the mob will get them, and we’ll see far different fruit dangling from the cherry trees along the Mall.

      As a student of history, I cannot overemphasize the disdain and disrespect I have for these people’s thinking skills. If they were going after a minority like the Jews in Weimar Germany, or the Armenians in Turkey? Sure, you might be able to get away with it all, but when the target is possibly a narrow majority of the voting public…? What the hell are they thinking?

    21. Sgt. Mom Says:

      “If they were going after a minority like the Jews in Weimar Germany, or the Armenians in Turkey? Sure, you might be able to get away with it all, but when the target is possibly a narrow majority of the voting public…? What the hell are they thinking?”
      Exactly, Kirk – what the hell are they thinking? Marginalize a long-disfavored minority, genocide them out of existence, and yeah, been done. Seen the memorials, got the tshirt, read the books- but slightly more than half the country? Reeeaaaly? They’re in a bubble, if they think so, a bubble of their own making.

    22. JaimeRoberto Says:

      “What the hell happens to nearly the entirety of the Democratic Party membership that’s on record for saying the same things or worse?”

      In theory I agree with you, but in reality that would require enough members in the House and Senate to see it through. The media onslaught against it would be huge, and I don’t see it happening.

    23. Xennady Says:

      Seen the memorials, got the tshirt, read the books- but slightly more than half the country? Reeeaaaly? They’re in a bubble, if they think so, a bubble of their own making.

      I agree, and I know I’ve expressed that agreement here before.

      But I have to wonder, how are the people in the bubble going to know they’re in it?

      I’ve also said (for example) that the outbreak of the American Revolution was a stunning surprise to the English government of the time. I remember posting that and then thinking it was foolish, because how could they not know what was coming? That is, they’d been stomping on the colonies and enraging the colonists for years- e. g., the laws remembered in America as the Intolerable Acts- how could Lord North have been surprised? WTF??

      Today, there are entire topics the usual suspects of the “press” simply refuse to report upon- and more such topics emerge daily, it seems. If you read only the so-called mainstream media, you literally have no idea what’s going on or why people might disagree you. You’ve been told complete nonsense, relentlessly.

      What was Lord North told? Or Joe Biden, for that matter.

      Not enough, I think.

    24. Brian Says:

      “how are the people in the bubble going to know they’re in it?”

      A huge fraction of the country thinks there is an army of white supremacists about to seize power, that their coup last week was very close to killing half of Congress, and that everything going on in DC right now is perfectly sane and normal.
      How are those of us who live in reality supposed to coexist with people like that?

    25. Ginny Says:

      Dr. Weasel, Well, I would like to think it was a landslide, I might suspect it, but I don’t think I’d assert it because I’m not sure. I think Trump is sure, that sureness comes from what people on his side have told him, what his pride tells him, and his gut instincts (which are generally better than mine, but given the other two reasons, I am not sure I’d bet on it). And yes, in my lifetime there have been few elections in which Republicans have won that the hints and the later evidence or admissions have shown the election was cooked and there have been many (the first national election I paid much attention to was Nixon/Kennedy) where a democrat won. My whole argument was that I suspected he was if not right literally, more right than wrong. But I would like proof. And my second argument was that republicans need to get into the nitty gritty in each state and fight for fair elections, argue for voter id, for making vote harvesting illegal, etc. Most of all the voter rolls need to be kept, adhered to and, first of all, cleansed. When voter suppression is charged it is often in states where that particular election had a larger percentage of minorities than voted before. It is a smoke screen. But the big idea that doesn’t seem to have permeated mass thinking is that every dishonest, illegal ballot can counter every legal ballot – that is what is most convincing about the arguments that this election was dishonest – the numbers got way too large (which is I’m sure one of Trump’s arguments for his “landslide” – why else would they have needed so many votes for Biden that they had to manufacture them so quickly they only were for him.) So, yes, maybe using the word apparent was equivalent to putting scare quotes around it, but I do think he believes that more firmly than the majority of people – even people who are in full agreement that the election was rigged and in full agreement with his policies and would like him in power – do.

    26. Xennady Says:

      How are those of us who live in reality supposed to coexist with people like that?

      We can’t and I suspect we won’t have the choice. They won’t let us.

      That’s why I think this will end with open violence and civil war.

    27. Anonymous Says:

      Sgt. Mom Says:

      Exactly, Kirk – what the hell are they thinking? Marginalize a long-disfavored minority, genocide them out of existence, and yeah, been done. Seen the memorials, got the tshirt, read the books- but slightly more than half the country? Reeeaaaly? They’re in a bubble, if they think so, a bubble of their own making.

      Remember the mindset of the Left, which is largely driving the Democrat party right now, is not one that expects a broad range of independent people to self-organize into communities and larger associations of allies but one where a cadre of organizers guides the ignorant masses to enlightenment. They are projecting their structure onto us. They expect that if they can cancel Donald Trump, and Dan Bongino, and Ben Shapiro, and buffalo-horn guy, and Josh Hawley that the rest of us are going to wander around like lost sheep bleating for a shepherd, ready to be folded into their flock.

    28. Christopher B Says:

      signing comment above.

    29. MCS Says:

      Those of us who, unlike the President elect, remember the Obama years for a stream of political mush-mouth unmatched since, at least, the Carter administration. The only times comprehensible statements were deployed was for promulgating lies. Think: “keep your doctor”, “red line”, etc. The next four years will make the Obama pronouncements a wonder of clarity and concision by contrast.

      Since Biden seems particularly bereft of non-white ethnic heritage and it seems rather late in the day for him to come out as trans, I wonder if this doesn’t give a clue to how criticism is to be characterized in the new administration. It will all be ageism and therefore inadmissible. All the Simpson episodes with Grandpa Simpson are about to disappear.

      McConnell seems particularly anxious to resume his perch as a Democratic lap-dog. He’s announced that the unconstitutional impeachment vote is to be according to conscience. He knows he’s not going to face a primary for six years.

    30. Mike K Says:

      how could they not know what was coming? That is, they’d been stomping on the colonies and enraging the colonists for years- e. g., the laws remembered in America as the Intolerable Acts- how could Lord North have been surprised? WTF??

      I think some of that failure was because they had been treating their own lower classes that way for a century. America was a mystery to them.

      Now, let us think about how Democrats rule their own cities and states. I left California four years ago because it was getting too crazy. Look at it now ! My son is thinking of retiring early and getting out. His kids are all getting pushed around by the schools, which have stopped all sports and classroom school has been shut on and off randomly.

    31. Kirk Says:

      “Remember the mindset of the Left, which is largely driving the Democrat party right now, is not one that expects a broad range of independent people to self-organize into communities and larger associations of allies but one where a cadre of organizers guides the ignorant masses to enlightenment. They are projecting their structure onto us.”

      Precisely.

      This is why the gun control types will never “get” the NRA, at all–They look at the NRA and think that it is something like they would set up, a “front” organization run from the shadows. The idea that it’s instead an outgrowth of the public’s genuine desires and goals never occurs to them–They see grass roots, and think “Astroturf”, because that’s how they operate, and that’s how they think. Nobody could possibly be genuinely interested in maintaining Second Amendment rights for their own reasons; it has to be the creation of the firearms industry, or something.

      Lizard people.

      That’s how they think, because they simply don’t understand how real humans think or act, under the conditions prevalent in America. This has been true since the aristos tried to comprehend the rising middle class and mercantile classes in England, back in the day. They are constitutionally incapable of understanding, and will continue to project “how they’d do it” onto the other side–Which is why their efforts are going to fail, yet again, with them doubling down on it all. Leading, I fear, to the violent outcome we’re all going to regret being involved in.

      Mainly because they won’t pause and think about why their ideas don’t work. I would hypothesize that the people running things on “the other side” aren’t human, simply because they keep acting as though they aren’t. They just don’t “get” the rest of us, which leads me to suspect that they are either mentally ill or aliens, by the standards of “the rest of us”.

      Note how they keep projecting and doubling-down on everything. A rational person on the Democratic Party side of things would have looked at Donald Trump and said “Huh. This guy has a following… I wonder why. Maybe we ought to take a pause, and consider that we’ve alienated a lot of people, and recalibrate what we’re doing…? Maybe co-opt this Donald person… After all, he was one of us, a few years ago…”.

      Instead, they did what they did, pissing off even more people, and making many more of us certain that they were up to no good. Good con men with an empathy for the mark, and an understanding of how the marks think would never, ever do this kind of thing.

      Again, I would not be surprised to have the Pelosis, Schumers, and McConnells get on TV, rip off their masks, and turn out to be literal Lizard People. The way they are conducting themselves and behaving…? It might as well be true. They’re truly not like “the rest of us”.

    32. Subotai Bahadur Says:

      Kirk, they are “lizard people”. Some years ago I came up with the acronym TWANLOC; Those Who Are No Longer Our Countrymen. Cultures differ and do not understand each other. Part of it is the nature of language. Even with translation, meanings are not the same.

      Allow me an example. Long ago [1792], Britain sent Lord Macartney to Qing [Manchu] Dynasty China to open relations and do a trade treaty. Macartney, like most Brit aristocrats of the time suffered from rectal-cranial impaction and had absolutely no idea of Chinese culture, world view, or even meanings of words. Macartney tried to dictate to the Empire, not comprehending that the very words for China, Chung Guo meant the Middle Kingdom and carried the implication and meaning that it was the center of the world and was superior in all ways to the foreign barbarians. Right or not, dictating to the Emperor of such a country is not likely to be productive.

      Another interesting sticking point was Macartney insisting on the benefits of “Freedom” and “Liberty” as exemplified by the then current British parliamentary democracy. Leave aside the concept to telling an absolute monarch that he would be better off under democracy, the first time you meet him. The translations used by the missionaries who served that function did not mean what Macartney thought. The missionaries were not really all that fluent in Chinese, and the words they used for what Macartney was praising included strong implications of anarchy and license. Once again, not something likely to convert an Emperor and his court to anarchy at first mention. The Emperor and the court were horrified. And Macartney’s mission was an absolute cluster. Yet they thought they were talking to each other.

      Our country has at least two hostile nations, separated by what is supposed to be a common language that actually means and is interpreted in very different ways, each with a very different and hostile underlying culture.

      It took multiple wars between Britain and China before a modus vivendi took hold for a while until the Chinese could eject the Brits. The cultures, mindsets, and basic worldviews of ourselves here and our enemies here are so different that it is going to take military conquest of one sort or another to settle who survives.

      No, I am not a nice person. But I am a pragmatic one.

      Subotai Bahadur

    33. Xennady Says:

      I think some of that failure was because they had been treating their own lower classes that way for a century. America was a mystery to them.

      True enough, I think- and America is still a mystery to these sort of folks.

      Now, let us think about how Democrats rule their own cities and states. I left California four years ago because it was getting too crazy. Look at it now ! My son is thinking of retiring early and getting out. His kids are all getting pushed around by the schools, which have stopped all sports and classroom school has been shut on and off randomly.

      California has degenerated into a horrible mess and everyone should leave as soon as they can.

      Alas. But I have to wonder about elections in that cursed land. I’ve lately discerned that the California electoral process is even worse than I imagined. Essentially, the covid-19 fraud fantasy the left recently put in place against most of the nation had long since been imposed upon California.

      Hence, I now think the catastrophe of California is a result of vote fraud and not a love of idiocy by the electorate as I once thought.

    34. Anonymous Says:

      The California catastrophe is the result of both. Push back is minimal. Even Newsom hasn’t been recalled. By the way, his wife has the title “First Partner”. I suppose if shim was older than Gavin shim would be called “Senior Partner”.

      The trick for the great migration that is underway is to convince them (most of them) to go west.

      Death6

    35. Brian Says:

      I wish there was a way to search our comments here more effectively…I was saying years ago that the Dem plan was to do to the nation what they did to California, where they completely destroyed the GOP and now have one-party rule, but it wouldn’t work on a national scale. I may have been too optimistic though I don’t think we can throw in the towel quite yet…

    36. Anonymous Says:

      “Our country has at least two hostile nations, separated by what is supposed to be a common language that actually means and is interpreted in very different ways, each with a very different and hostile underlying culture.”

      Really? If so, its not reflected in congress. The differences between the DC Republicans and the DC Democrats are minimial.

      Mitt Romney, Ben Sasse, and Liz Cheney hate Trump more than Schumer and Pelosi.

    37. Mike K Says:

      Hence, I now think the catastrophe of California is a result of vote fraud and not a love of idiocy by the electorate as I once thought.

      I think it is a mixture. I arrived in 1956 to start college. Those were the days when Sam Yorty was LA Mayor. He was elected on a platform that residents would not have to sort garbage into two bins. Imagine that ! A Democrat running on common sense. Pat Brown beat Nixon in 1962 because he was a good Governor. He built the water system that his son let deteriorate.

      California had a big middle class blue collar Democrat class. The enviros drove manufacturing away and I spent a summer moving people out of small homes near the aircraft plants into small apartments as they lost their good jobs. Eventually, lots of them left the state.

      They were replaced by illegals, from Mexico early on and later from south, non-Spanish speaking parts of Mexico and central America. In 2018, when most GOP Congress members in Orange County lost their elections, one area of Santa Ana had 114% turnout in the election.

    38. Xennady Says:

      In 2018, when most GOP Congress members in Orange County lost their elections, one area of Santa Ana had 114% turnout in the election.

      This is the sort of thing I’m talking about. I was always amazed at just how many of these sort of anecdotes about vote fraud I’d see in comment threads and at the political sites I’d read, before the recent election. And I made no effort at all to seek them out.

      With all the fraud in the recent election that has been exposed- if hazily, and despite the left’s best efforts to hide it- I think I can conclude that fraud has been taking place on a scale far beyond my worst imaginings.

      In fact I suspect one of the more important reasons the Deep State hates Trump is because he wanted to investigate and find out.

    39. Brian Says:

      Well the CA 2018 elections are when “ballot harvesting” entered the lexicon. The GOP there seems to have done a decent job doing it themselves in 2020. I’m sure the Dems will figure out a way to make up for it next time around. Of course going back to the private ballot and voting in-person on election day is completely out of the question…

    40. Xennady Says:

      I knew about ballot harvesting long before 2018. I bet you did too.

      I was outraged, as it looks like nothing more than a fancy way to commit fraud. Nice to see that the gop adapted, as usual a day late and a dollar short.

      But this is an iterative process at 2-year steps- and the left is quickly getting to the point where they realize that they need to kill their opponents to keep from losing.

      I certainly don’t think what they’ve managed to do so far will keep people quiet. They’ll figure that out too. Another turn of the ratchet, etc, and at some point the killing time arrives.

      That’s all on them, no matter how often they lyingly claim otherwise.