A common criticism of the pro side of the gun debate is that it is unwilling to get behind common sense reforms to improve things in the realm of firearms. I would say this is nonsense and that there are plenty of legislative reforms that the pro side would get behind. Here is a selection.
Eliminate ageism and sexism in 10 USC 311 by extending membership in the unorganized militia to be equal to the organized militia. We’re not in the 1950s anymore but this law has not been updated since 1958.
Pass a sense of the Congress resolution that the unorganized militia is a part of the security system of the United States of America and that like all other parts of the security system shall be regularly evaluated on how it can be made more effective.
Encourage the increase and enhancement of responsible gun culture to spread beyond the current concealed carry community to the general public with the goal of reducing the general gun crime rate of the general public to approximate that of the concealed carry community.
Demonstrating responsible gun ownership to a state via a concealed carry license in one’s state of residence shall be treated like a drivers license and recognized throughout the country.
Please discuss and add other items in comments.
Perhaps you need to legislate that all respectable citizens shall carry a gun unless they are licensed no to.
The easiest to choose is the hardest to implement. Restore gun training and marksmanship programs in school.
Most of the non-gun owning population does not know anything about guns, especially the news media.
That gun writers crow when the media makes mistakes like this indicates how little regard there is for the media from the pro-gun community. There are several ways the media can remedy this situation. For starters, treat guns like any other beat (as the Guardian has done with Lois Beckett). Media outlets tend not to send sports writers to cover the Supreme Court or style writers to cover a murder. Ignorance undermines authority. If you want to report on guns, you need to understand the differences between various weapons and how they are used. Spend time at a shooting range and learn how to fire a gun. Be able to interview an NRA member without scorn or derision.
Why not teach everybody about guns ? We used to have the draft which taught lots of male citizens about them.
You actually think liberals will give consideration to expand the concept of militia? That is a lot more faith than I have. Mike K’s suggestion is on the mark but it will cause heartburn in liberals/Democrats. [Can you picture bulbus glutus Hillary participating in a gun safety and marksmanship course?
Dearieme – If you can figure out how to get past the 13th amendment challenge, I would be interested in reading more.
Mike K – I’m on board. Why do you think that implementing this would be hard? School board elections are generally done at a level of professionalism that is so low it’s easy to exceed the bar. Replace the board and the job is mostly done. You’d probably want a set of good school programs ready to go if they’re not there already (I don’t know one way or the other on this aspect).
Morgan Says – I think that liberals will find it difficult to support giving women fewer rights than men in any field whatsoever. In an awful lot of school districts, if the NRA endorsed and urged their members to vote at the school board, they’d be the majority of the electorate showing up at the polls. That’s the low hanging fruit. When you get a lot of kids laughing at the ignorant urban hicks, that should take care of most of the rest of the battle. There will be hold outs. There always are. Getting a majority of school districts would be an immense sea change.
“Common Sense” as applied to politics.
– something with superficial emotional appeal, with deeply flawed logic, resulting in an effect opposite to the ostensible goal.
Politician spouting about “common sense”- a lying deceitful sack of filth, attempting to abrogate rights by manipulating the emotions of the brainwashed.
We used to be a united country, with a sense of what this country stood for. it was something that was good, and not some evil that needed to be “fundamentally transformed”. We argued about the best way to make the country great, for all.
Now we have two sets of people, living in the same real estate, who believe in “fundamentally” different ideals.
These ideals are not reconcilable.
I don’t see the Establishment giving much ground to the militia either, unfortunately.
I’ve read recently that the JROTC is growing in popularity in some minority high schools. How about expanding the Guard and Reserve into the schools also?
While your suggestion Re: the NRA getting involved in school board elections–and other local elections as well–makes sense, your job is to convince the NRA’s Institute of Legislative Action [ILA] to take such action not I. If you know any NRA board members, that might be a good place to start.
A valid concealed carry permit counts as a background check.
You can purchase a firearm in any State, provided you pass a background check.
A well regulated militia being essential for the security of a free country, the right to keep and bear AR-15 pattern rifles shall not be infringed.
” Replace the board and the job is mostly done.”
School board elections in my conservative county in California are dominated by teachers’ unions.
The golden rule once again. The gold rules and they have far more incentive to vote than any theory about militias.
Actually, I believe that the public at large should have the right to possess
the same firearms as the police forces. They are not our betters with superior
rights. It was the Philadelphia Police Department that dropped a satchel bomb
on the roof of a house in 1985, then watched from a distance as 61 homes burned to the ground.
Arming a civilian population in order to self police it’s self is an amazingly stupid thing to do. “Hey we can stop the bad guys with guns, with good guys with guns.”
People in war zones need guns. If your country is a war zone, well you are in a war against yourself. Which, again amazingly, does seem to be the case.
I’m actually starting to think it’s a “small hands” issue. ;)
Too many laws on the books already. Need to be cleaned up.
Why does anyone expect the NRA to do anything? They are just a political fundraising group. If they were serious about gun rights, they would lower their membership fees and instead of being 4-5 million members perpetually, they should be 40-50 million strong! That would be clout!
to PenGun: Idiot, it isn’t about “self-policing” it is about self-defense especially from the feds who are the major threat the second amendment was concerned with. But it’s also nice to be able to protect self, family and property. Police are only a call away and usually show up after-the-fact.
When Che Guevara arrived in Bolivia, Bolivia had the strictest gun control laws. So Che recruited cadres to bring communism to Bolivia.
Once he had his men trained his unarmed men ambushed police patrols and took their guns. When the government sent troops to capture Che, Che ambushed the government troops and took their guns, tanks, etc and attacked and capture the central government. Bolivia flew the red banner and Che moved on new challenges.
Gun control can only work if all levels of government – the police, the secret police, the military – give up their weapons. If nobody has a gun, no one can resist when people like Che show up. Which is why liberals want gun control because gun control brings socialism and heroes like Che, Fidel, Stalin and Hitler.
(Yes Hitler was the leading socialist of the 30’s. He founded the national socialist German workers party aka NSDAP or NAZI.)
Socialism = guns at the top and fascism, unarmed serfs at the bottom.
Free market capitalism = guns at the bottom, minimal government, very weak rulers. Che types get ambushed by armed concerned citizens taking law into their own hands.
“Idiot, it isn’t about “self-policing” it is about self-defense especially from the feds who are the major threat the second amendment was concerned with. But it’s also nice to be able to protect self, family and property. Police are only a call away and usually show up after-the-fact.”
Oh I do understand the, well I guess we can call it reasoning, behind arguments like this. But it’s not the real world. You are in no position to wrest anything from your government. It’s just so much better positioned in regards to violent force than anything your little group of crazies could assemble.
If you have created a state of mind where you have sides, the good guys etc, then you can go ahead and maintain a war footing against the ‘other’. Which is what is often offered here as a solution.
Civilization and democracy is supposed to mitigate this state by involving all the people in their government. Creating political movements is how you change things, not by arming yourself against the ‘other’. It’s infantile really.
“Why does anyone expect the NRA to do anything? They are just a political fundraising group”
No, the NRA is the most successful civil rights organization since the 1960s.
” Creating political movements is how you change things, not by arming yourself against the ‘other’. It’s infantile really.”
Says the Canadian dilletante who does not understand much, especially the “Ruling Class” development in this country. Oh Canada is not immune as Justin Trudeau with as much history of accomplishment as Obama is the new PM.
The Trump phenomenon is the political movement and we will see if it can overcome the ruling class corruption. The guns are next if it fails.
So a guy who calls himself Pen(is)Gun thinks it is other people who have a
“small hands” issue.
The fact that this post exists is proof-positive that Red/Green sets the agenda. Instead of further discussing the usual suspects, the Islamo-Urban-Thug-Socialist nexus, the topic is “common sense legislation”.
Really?
The Attorney General Of The United States just announced that an edited version of the events in Orlando will be available for review, not the actual record of it. A version sanitized by the unvetted, unaccountable gun-runners that have been supplying arms to the same people that conducted the operation.
Plenty of laws already exist. We should not be discussing further hobbling ourselves at the most dangerous period in U.S. history, instead focusing on removing the threat.
“and attacked and capture the central government. Bolivia flew the red banner and Che moved on new challenges”
Is this some communist troll alternate reality or something? The only reason Guevara was there in the first place is because Castro kicked him out of Cuba when his nutty ideas destroyed the economy and the greater society. He took his revolutionary delusions to Bolivia, but he was so incompetent he didn’t even know how to speak to the peasants he was trying to “liberate”. They sensibly turned him in, and he was shot like the criminal that he was.
…and Pengun establishes, once more, that ALL libtards enter Victim Disarmament discussions focused on their own ED issues…
This is the only reasonable explanation for why they would be concerned with the size and state of MY dick in the middle of an unrelated discussion.
Go home, take a Cialis, and call a hooker Pengun.
That’s the proper solution to your ED issues.
I think Borepatch has part of a remotely possible step. Of course *anything* can be corrupted by politicians, but…
What about something more similar to the CDL? Make it “shall issue” with wording which requires the issuing body to issue the “permit” within, say 48 hours unless it can show evidence it should not, evidence based upon defined criteria and subject to judicial review. Violent felony, mental instability, etc.
Make it a permit to acquire a firearm, without regard to type etc. and without record keeping/registration. (or voluntary, might be nice to able to recover a stolen gun) Have an endorsement for public carry like pilot lisc. have for multi-engine etc.
Scenario: You go down to the BMV or the sheriff’s office or fill out an online form, they run a background check, one time, 48 hours issue the permit, non-expiring, shall issue, revokable for cause through due process.
You go to the gun store, the guy says, let me see your permit, you show it to him, he sells you a gun, no registration, no waiting period, no BS. You go by the gun show, punk in the parking lot says, “let me buy that off you” and you tell him to get lost with or without a permit. Inside another guy offers, shows the card (maybe it has some kind of public/private key deal if you want to scan it with your cell phone.) You sell it to him if you want to. He says “no” you know he’s either a nut, a violent felon, a fed, or all three.
I’m probably dreaming, but, the gun owners and enthusiasts I know are very keen on keeping guns out of the wrong hands. They know its the finger not the trigger that is the problem. Give them reasonable rules without ulterior goals (confiscation etc.) and good tools, and *they* will take care of most of it.
Sure, I’d rather we had a situation where culture and circumstances meant we didn’t have to have any regulation at all, but, at least until there are some major cultural shifts through education etc., that ship has sailed, and instead of no regulation we have bad regulation.
“They sensibly turned him in, and he was shot like the criminal that he was.”
Yes, Che was pretty much a failure at everything he tried except murder.
WEB Griffin has a whole novel about his adventures in Africa. Most of Griffin’s early novels about the army and Marines are roman e clef.
You may want to check this out- apparently the military brass are talking about directly installing officers from the civilian side, bypassing normal promotions in the ranks.
This sounds to me like an ideal way to implement a program of “Political Officers”, much like the USSR had. someone in every unit to make sure they toes the party line.
http://www.militarytimes.com/story/military/careers/2016/06/19/military-lateral-entry-force-of-the-future-ash-carter/85884998/
The Zampolits are already in there. See Tom Kratman’s articles on EveryJoe.
“So a guy who calls himself Pen(is)Gun thinks it is other people who have a
“small hands” issue.”
LOL. It actually came from my first web site, that specialized in gaming, shooters really, and Linux. That was about when win 4 came out and I had a lot of fun in those days playing with my new toy, the internet. The registry crack that turned win 4 client into win 4 server, one line, brought me serious traffic.
Penguin/gun, but yours is good too. ;)
“This is the only reasonable explanation for why they would be concerned with the size and state of MY dick in the middle of an unrelated discussion.”
Oh, I’m sorry, it was a joke.
The serious love affair many of you have with guns leads me to believe there is some compensation going on. If you are having a love affair with instruments designed to kill, I can suggest a few video games that may help with that.
Lutas says: “School board elections are generally done at a level of professionalism that is so low it’s easy to exceed the bar. Replace the board and the job is mostly done.”
Been there; done that; and sadly, no. From 2006 thru 2009 I and a very few friends “won” three district elections defeating bond (construction borrowing) projects proposed by a corrupt and incompetent superintendent. We replaced two board members supportive of that superintendent, and managed to terminate his contract early (Meaning, paid him to shut up and go away.) We failed to get his his “certification” pulled. He’s still drawing six figures a year from a nearby district…
The superintendent’s chief board opponent was merely incompetent or if corrupt, so mildly so that her seat was safe until I ran for it. Won the election, won the re-count, and won the court challenge.
And found that I could NOT get the new superintendent on board with even the simplest of process changes. Could not get, for instance, a calendar showing state-mandated “deadlines” for various reports and submissions our district owed the central education agency — with steps leading up to that date. If we were to select textbooks by April and a parent teacher committee was required to review, then that committee obviously need to be meeting in February or March, therefore formed before that. We should have sample texts from publishers by some date before committee meets. Etc. COULD NOT GET such calendars published for the board.
And could not get majority of board, which included several supporters of the previous superintendent, to make a formal issue of such matters.
The last year of my term I essentially sold my vote on the new superintendent’s salary package in order to get a change in his contract. The old contract has a provision that if the terms of the contract and state requirements were in conflict, the contract prevailed. The deal, (where my swing vote allowed the raise and the end of the meeting, which would have been filibustered forever without my switch) called for state law to prevail, instead.
By the next meeting I found our lawyer had NOT made the change, and the board president — one my my “allies” elected during the prior superintendent’s term and elected to the top slot with my help — had signed it *between* meetings.
Constant vigilance and continuous effort is necessary.
Raven – I’m not ready to concede the term common sense to the newspeak fools. We just differ on that.
Morgan – It would be interesting to start with the school boards where the majority are NRA members but for me all of this is subsumed under a larger question “what are schools for” which is my focus on school reform. Gun education is just one item on a longer list for me.
Mike K – What’s the voter participation rate on your school board district? Often that dominance is only due to most voters ignoring that election and less than 20% of the electorate votes.
Will – I write as I please and am not commissioned by anyone.
“I can suggest a few video games that may help with that.”
My very limited experience with videogamers suggests that they are much more violent than gun owners but are not very fit spending most of their time with soft drinks and chips.
We aren’t the ones who are confused:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCaf7YUmQxA
There is a love affair going on, though. It is with Liberty and self-ownership.
Citizen ownership of firearms serves as a guarantee of that status continuing.
“You are in no position to wrest anything from your government. It’s just so much better positioned in regards to violent force than anything your little group of crazies could assemble.”
We are a nation of 330,000,000 persons with about 330,000,000 firearms in the hands of those persons. I would speculate that very few of those small arms are owned by
people who self-identify as ‘progressive’. I don’t know the numbers, but a reasonable guess is that the Fed Gov. armories contains something like 10,000,000
small arms in functioning condition. Likewise, the citizens surely possess vastly more ammunition than does the government. It is interesting to speculate what would happen in the event of an armed rebellion. I will posit that if the rebellion
did not become widespread, the state would prevail. If the rebellion did spread,
I do not think the government could overcome opposition by more than a very small
percentage of armed rebels. 3% of 330,000,000 is still a 10,000,000 strong irregular army.
At first, most state and local police forces and National Guard would aid in putting down the rebellion, with differing degrees of vigor. At some point, lacking success, many
would choose differently, or die. What would the military do? Well, they have the
heavy weapons. But would they fight? Very problematic, as they are mostly of us,
not of you. Meanwhile, the urban dwellers would be dying of starvation. The Federal internal police agencies like FBI and DEA aren’t large enough to command control. I think the Bundy Ranch standoff in Nevada illustrates how conflicted different agencies are when confronted with Federal disputes with citizens of their state. The Feds folded up their tent and fled the scene. It was only when the Bundys joined up with the folks from the Malheur* standoff that the Feds grabbed them.
Now I am not suggesting that open rebellion would be my choice, merely suggesting that your faith in the power of the state might be miss-placed.
*I have never been to the Malheur Wildlife Refuge, but I have been to the top of Steens Mtn., just to the south. An awesome view
from the top, looking east. Well worth taking the loop drive if ever you are passing through Burns.
“My very limited experience with videogamers suggests that they are much more violent than gun owners but are not very fit spending most of their time with soft drinks and chips.”
Oh I’m sure there are many as you describe, most of them are Americans.
I can actually give you my very nice numbers, if you care. I was recently tested, mild arrhythmia, was the diagnosis, I eat aspirin now. The rest of it was a full blood test and I was a bit apprehensive about my cholesterol as I eat whatever fats I want. As I’m a vegetarian I naturally have good numbers but I was surprised how good they were. We now have a service with the medical contractor that lets you see your numbers online.
Oh and the mountain is getting less steep, as the weather is so fine, I have to go check on it more often.
Video games are fun. A well done modern one is quite amazing in the level of both art and science. I have been playing them since Doom came out so my chops are honed to some extent and fun is what I have playing them. I don’t watch TV.
Anonymous – Since I really have little context beyond a timeframe, I can’t contribute much beyond second guessing. I simply do not understand why you would need to get a vote on a calendar. At least in 2016, you would just write one up on any one of a number of public calendar services, and set up alarms to notify the relevant people of deadlines as they happen. You could announce that the calendar exists and enter the URL into the official record for the utility of the rest of the people working on such projects but why would you allow the lack of a vote to stop you is just beyond me. There is nothing scarier for bureaucrat incumbents than an individual board member seizing the agenda that way which means that they’re going to look for any way possible to claw back influence and power. An official calendar is much less dangerous for them. You always make cooperating the less dangerous option.
I thought that such things went without saying. That was a mistake on my part.
“I think the Bundy Ranch standoff in Nevada illustrates how conflicted different agencies are when confronted with Federal disputes with citizens of their state. The Feds folded up their tent and fled the scene. It was only when the Bundys joined up with the folks from the Malheur* standoff that the Feds grabbed them.”
Oh my. The feds played them like a drum. They refused to fight with the crazies. They waited till the fools went and broke all kinds of serious laws, scooped them in a manner that would have been just perfect if that idiot had not run and attempted to crash a Federal government barrier. They shot him. They scooped up the rest including the old man and they are all going to jail.
What’s interesting is the general reaction of the population. It was nearly complete support for the feds and there was much laughter at the Bundy’s moronic display. I mean the level of intellect displayed by the average idiot blog poster was obviously much higher than any of the participants in that fiasco.
It seems that my point was too subtle for you to catch. In
Nevada, state agencies and some prominent regional politicians objected
to the Feds taking forceful action because of substantial public support for Bundy. So the Feds folded up their tent and left.
After the Feds left, the old man Bundy said some un-politic things
that revealed him to be a fool.
The Maleur standoff developed in reaction to the prison term extension levied against the Hammond father and son in their battle with BLM (I think). That prison term extension angered just about everyone in the rural west, as it was manifestly unjust. I am not
sure if the Bundy sons were in the standoff/occupation from the beginning. Unfortunately, the sons are no brighter than the father, and loose talk about potential violence cost them a great deal of public support. After assiduous public polling, the Feds
finally acted to end the occupation.
The Feds didn’t ‘play them like a drum’. The Bundys were fools.
These conflicts arise because the Federal government owns such a large percentage of western state lands, and like everything the Fed Gov attempts, it is an incompetent steward of these public lands. This negatively impacts the ability of residents to feed their families, and of the state and local governments to raise tax revenue. The Feds have reneged on promises to return some of these lands to the states, and have removed vast tracts of land from economic development. This is a huge issue in the west, and is not going away.
“That prison term extension angered just about everyone in the rural west, as it was manifestly unjust.”
I had a fairly close look at that and concluded that the extension made sense. He almost killed several people with his illegal fires and there was quite a lot of support, as well as a lot of opposition, to the sentence extension.
Anyway as you said they are fools. He was paying $1.35 an animal per month and thought that was too much.
}}} Pengun: “Oh, I’m sorry, it was a joke.”
“Yeah, yeah, that’s the ticket… a joke. Yeah!”
You know, I might believe that, if it weren’t for the fact that you victim disarmament idiots can’t seem to have a single discussion about guns without making a reference to someone’s dick (Yes, admitted: that’s hyperbole for effect… but NOT MUCH).
Regardless — There are all too many dick references in liberal Victim Disarmament diatribes (from liberals).
One can only presume that you’re almost all uniformly somehow unimpressed with your own dicks, and looking for some kind of re-affirmation.
Do us all a favor — take some Cialis, call a hooker, and leave our Rights alone, instead.
I see that PenGun was a cattle rancher in a former life. Tell us, how much would you pay to graze your herd on BLM land?
As far as your other claims, now you are just making shit up. The original sentencing judge thought the extension was unjust. The appeals court judge who added on 3 years to the original sentence did so due to overcharging and calling the fires an act of terrorism. Plus you have apparently missed the part where I said the sentence extension was opposed by nearly everyone in the rural west. Portland is populated by California fugitives who moved north so they could fuck up Oregon too. They are assholes who detest rural folk, just like progs in Vancouver.
I see that you continue to be completely blind to the to the existence of an ownership conflict between Wash., DC and some of the western states. I don’t think I could be that dense if I tried.
“I see that you continue to be completely blind to the to the existence of an ownership conflict between Wash., DC and some of the western states. I don’t think I could be that dense if I tried.”
The feds were entangled with public land before there were states and the history of their management goes back to the beginning of your country. It’s not like they stole it.
The Bundy’s are an egregious example of the conflict, and the outcome of that, revealed many people do not agree with private ownership of the land that they wanted to use, and did graze, for free. I suspect that justice was probably done in the extension of the sentence because it really does look like he was trying to kill those people.
Even so, mounting an armed response to federal agents, is always going to be a big mistake. To deny the rule of law, is to open yourself to it’s heaviest hand.
“Do us all a favor ”” take some Cialis, call a hooker, and leave our Rights alone, instead.”
I think I struck a nerve. I’ll refrain from ‘pump’ links and point out that I’m 70 now and it’s been a while. Once I realized that none of the women I wanted, wanted me, and that none of the women who wanted me, interested me, I realized it was over. Never looked back.
But really “methinks thou doth protest too much”. (bastardizing the original) ;)
PenGun has left the realm of fighting
straw men, and now freely endorses total incoherence.
“Even so, mounting an armed response to federal agents, is always going to be a big mistake. To deny the rule of law, is to open yourself to it’s heaviest hand.”
Well, it is, until it isn’t. Just ask Marie Antoinette.
Even so, mounting an armed response to federal agents, is always going to be a big mistake. To deny the rule of law, is to open yourself to it’s heaviest hand.
And when the federal govt doesn’t obey the law, then what, Pengun?
“revealed many people do not agree with private ownership of the land that they wanted to use, and did graze, for free”
He has no idea of the other aspects of this story that involve Harry Reid and investors who want that land for other purposes.
PenGun just doesn’t know what he doesn’t know.
Here is another lefty “fact checking site” that points out more than it intends.
“Reid’s son is involved with BLM customers, putting together deals right where Clive Bundy’s ranch is,” Calvo said. “The federal government is ready to send armed guards in to take peoples land, unconstitutionally, illegally, over what I believe is making sweetheart deals to the Chinese.”
An editorial in Investors Business Daily hinted darkly that on March 14, the BLM announced support for the Western Solar Energy Plan.
“Coincidentally, part of that solar energy expansion includes a plan by China’s ENN Energy Group to build what would be America’s largest solar energy complex,” the editorial said. “The site chosen with the guidance of Reid’s son, Rory, is in Laughlin, Nev. Laughlin is in Clark County, where Bundy’s ranch is.”
Clark County covers more than 8,000 square miles. Laughlin is about 100 miles as the crow flies from Bundy’s ranch.
As for the ENN Energy Group, there had been a plan to turn 9,000 acres into the nation’s largest solar array. According to press reports, Reid’s son Rory did represent the company, and Reid himself helped recruit the company during a trip to China in 2011. But the deal hinged on nailing down long-term contracts to sell the power the massive facility would generate. When the developers were unable to get those agreements, they backed out. That was in July 2013.
It couldn’t possibly be true because, would Harry Reid lie ?
“And when the federal govt doesn’t obey the law, then what, Pengun?”
Oh I dunno, you could have a civil war, like Syria.
The difference with Syria, Penny, is that we have guns and the civilians in Syria didn’t.
“The difference with Syria, Penny, is that we have guns and the civilians in Syria didn’t.”
It’s interesting that very similar methods were used, in getting the regime change under way, as was used in the Ukraine. Snipers shooting at both sides started battles neither side wanted. Just think how effective that would be in America.
Everyone there has a gun. The Libyan debacle ensured a large supply of all kinds of weaponry throughout the middle east. The Saudis have flooded the area with all kinds of weapons.
The only people there without guns don’t want one.
PenGun – For under $1000 you can protect against “let’s you and him fight” sniper attacks by deploying a gunshot detection system. Here’s a publicly available software component:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1209653-REG/louroe_le_810_gunshot_detector_software.html
You’re implausible about the Syrian gun situation:
http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/syria
3.9 firearms per 100 people does not look that impressive. I bet you a lot more civilians want one.
TMLutas:
I think you’re the original poster here, a question for you:
You said, “Please discuss and add other items in comments. ”
Which could be interpreted to cover a lot of ground, but I had the impression you were intending to discuss what real “common sense” gun law might look like, and/or what the obstacles to adoption might be.
Was that your intention? Are you satisfied with the direction the discussion has taken?
John – At present my medical consultants are divided in their opinion whether the bug that is kicking my tail is strep or not. My level of concern for the direction of the conversation is not at its usual levels. Sorry, audience. I’d have steered this more actively normally.
Honorable mentions for those actually forwarding proposals (agree or not) that are on topic go to:
Dearieme
Mike K
Grurray
Raymondshaw
John
This provides me with 5 more ideas than I had before and perhaps 30 posts of off topic amusement that I don’t mind in the least. They’re dross, but entertaining dross and that’s ok. All comment threads veer off topic. It’s the nature of the beast. Occasionally, they unexpectedly veer back on topic and provide real insight way down in the depths.
In this site community, we seem to have unofficially nominated PenGun as our designated (but not exclusive) entertaining veerer and he really puts a good amount of effort into the role. What a trooper.
LOL. gunpolicy.org and you picked the second one ’cause it looked better.
There is a serious civil war in progress and and few areas are safe. Your numbers are ridiculous.
Any of the various fighting factions, the Russians counted about 140 of em’, will arm you with frighteningly modern weapons. No one in Syria who wants a gun has any trouble at all getting one.
As for entertainment, I do try, it’s almost depressing, the atmosphere here. I have some sympathy for those here, as the present state of American politics is so far into the weeds that it will require a major effort to get it back on the road. As well there is no obvious path to that.
If I were a citizen of a country whose political leadership included a
Prime Minister named Justin Trudeau, I would be very reluctant about
criticizing the political selection process in another country.
Pengun – Feel free to go on a plane and update those old numbers. Yeah, lots of factions will give you a gun when you join their military. That’s not hard at all. But it’s civilian guns we’re talking about and you seem not to have noticed.
“Feel free to go on a plane and update those old numbers. Yeah, lots of factions will give you a gun when you join their military. That’s not hard at all. But it’s civilian guns we’re talking about and you seem not to have noticed.”
I wade through this crap every day. There are children fighting on both sides and I can link you pictures of dead babies with guns in their hands.
Your pitiful attempt to equate what’s happening in a full scale civil war to your narrative about guns being essential to freedom is disgusting.
There are no civilians, just refugees swarming Europe because their country is so dangerous they have to leave. Just people caught in various forms of siege all across the country. There are guns lying on the f*&king ground all over the place, after any engagement, help yourself.
As the start of the war was pure CIA, their MO is all over that process, it’s very likely your country is largely responsible for a great deal of this carnage. All this to move Qatar’s f*&king gas.
“If I were a citizen of a country whose political leadership included a
Prime Minister named Justin Trudeau, I would be very reluctant about
criticizing the political selection process in another country.”
Gonna be hard for you to understand how happy we generally are, to have Pierre’s kid running the show.
Now your selection process is easily spinable as has been well documented. Ours is bullet proof, so he actually won.
According to the citations from that link, the Syrian numbers are estimates from 2007. Prior to the recent civil war, Syria was a totalitarian police state. Very few people were allowed to own guns unless they were connected with the army or the regime. Any group not aligned with the government that started to possess a lot of weaponry was normally attacked and destroyed. This strict control over individual freedoms, such as gun possession, contributed to the war.
Compare that to Lebanon next door, where everyone owns a gun
A survey conducted in 2005 found that only 37.5% of young people in Lebanon confessed to owning guns. However, most people who spoke to NOW Lebanon were of the opinion that virtually every household in Lebanon is armed.
Since that was written, as you might expect, the number of guns possessed by individuals has exploded. Yet the war hasn’t spilled over across the border. A weak central government combined with a tradition of armed autonomy and easily defensible mountainous terrain keeps the invaders at bay. A lot people expected war to break out considering the past history of war in the 70s and 80s, but the difference between now and then is the Palestinians. Back then they had an army in the PLO, but now they are largely disorganized.
I supposed the key takeaway is individual ownership over armed gangs.
“As the start of the war was pure CIA, their MO is all over that process,”
I predict a shortage of tinfoil in Pennie’s are. Of course, an old Marxist already has all the verbiage down.
So, Pierre’s kid is running the “show”, but our selection process is “easily spinnable”.
Who said: “You know, I’m not going to go around reciting Pi to the 19th decibel.”
Who said: “I shudder to think what the future of feminism in the UK looks like now that it has chosen to leave the European Union.”
I wasn’t aware that Justin became P.M. by unanimous consent. Your affection for him
isn’t hard for me to accept; Albertans, not so much.
Canadians have a long and recent history of monarchical fealty. Americans long ago
rebelled. You, and many of your fellow countrymen long to be treated as subjects.
I, and many of my countrymen long to be treated as self-owned citizens.
Enjoy that thrill up your leg while you can. By the time Justin is done, it will
be long gone.
“Yet the war hasn’t spilled over across the border.”
It has numerous times. Both on the border and attacks inside Lebanon.
“Canadians have a long and recent history of monarchical fealty. Americans long ago
rebelled. You, and many of your fellow countrymen long to be treated as subjects.”
We have a Monarch in our governmental system. It’s a largely ceremonial position but gives us a person to be the head of us all.
I am and have all my life been a loyal subject of the Crown. My family has been loyal subjects, largely, since the 1600s, that we know about.
Feel free to be a ‘self-owned’ whatever. It’s my choice, as a free man, to show my fealty to the head of our system.
Looking at what you have produced as a nation, and at the position you are now in, I have no regrets at all.
“I predict a shortage of tinfoil in Pennie’s are. Of course, an old Marxist already has all the verbiage down.”
We have Rio Tinto Alcan just up the coast away, and they have recently open their new smelter. Nearly a half million tons a year from this place now. I should set up a web store.
“It’s my choice, as a free man, to show my fealty to the head of our system.”
What a wonderful internal contradiction.
I have never before engaged in conversation with a man who relished the opportunity
to live his life on his knees.
“I have never before engaged in conversation with a man who relished the opportunity to live his life on his knees.”
To acknowledge the head of ones state is in no way a defeat or a humbling of oneself. Perhaps the lack of understanding of this is behind the hatred and divisiveness that characterizes your country.
“I am and have all my life been a loyal subject of the Crown. My family has been loyal subjects, largely, since the 1600s, that we know about.”
This is considerably more than ‘acknowledging the head of ones (sic) state’
So when the King knocked on your ancestor’s door, did the father, brother and groom all beam with pride as he claimed his right to jus primae noctis.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StJS51d1Fzg
Oh my! Look at this. Will it make Penny’s head explode?
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/jury-acquits-leaders-of-oregon-standoff-of-federal-charges/ar-AAjuxZf
Pennie tales pride in his slavish adherence to his masters,