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  • How Can We Deal With Terrorism in the West ?

    Posted by Michael Kennedy on June 5th, 2017 (All posts by )

    Terrorism struck in London last Saturday night and PM Theresa May says, “Enough is enough “

    Does she mean it ? Probably but that does not mean anything useful will be done.
    Two thirds of British Muslims would not report a plot to police.

    The same poll revealed that over half of all British Muslims think homosexuality, the very act of gay sex, should be illegal in Britain. Another 23% want to tear down British common law and replace it with Islamic Sharia. Moreover, 39% believe that wives should always, without exception, obey the commands of their husbands; 31% of Muslim also believed that men (not women of course) should be legally permitted to practice polygamy and marry more than one wife.

    That doesn’t sound like assimilation. How about America ?

    Minnesota Somalis sound pretty much the same.

    ‘Is it right to kill someone who insults the prophet?’

    “Yes,” said the bearded man with the animated personality. “Because when you, every day you face frustration. And you know, every day you have, uh, you’re mad, or somebody says that, and you feel hate your soul. You could do anything you wanted. If you committed suicide, you don’t care, because your heart, your heart is telling you, ‘I don’t want to live no more,’ because you couldn’t take that much hate. Or you, you kill someone.”

    It’s not just Somalis.

    The Center for Security Policy released a poll Tuesday that should give all Americans pause. The results show that a startling number of American Muslims, our fellow citizens, agree that violence is a legitimate response to those who insult Islam. A full majority of 51% “agreed that “Muslims in America should have the choice of being governed according to shariah.”

    According to the just-released survey of Muslims, a majority (51%) agreed that “Muslims in America should have the choice of being governed according to shariah.” When that question was put to the broader U.S. population, the overwhelming majority held that shariah should not displace the U.S. Constitution (86% to 2%). …

    Even more troubling, is the fact that nearly a quarter of the Muslims polled believed that, “It is legitimate to use violence to punish those who give offense to Islam by, for example, portraying the prophet Mohammed.”

    A full 25% of those polled agreed that “violence against Americans here in the United States can be justified as part of the global jihad.”

    What do we do with this ?

    Spengler (David Goldman) has some suggestions.

    Sherman and Sheridan suppressed sniping at Union soldiers by Confederate civilians by burning the towns (just the towns, not the townsfolk) that sheltered them. In other words, they forced collective responsibility upon a hostile population, a doctrine that in peacetime is entirely repugnant, but that in wartime becomes unavoidable.

    I have read a lot about Sherman and his way of dealing with a hostile population was hang snipers and burn the villages that supported them.

    Collective punishment has gotten a bad reputation from the Germans in World War I and World War II. They would round up innocent civilians and execute them to punish guerilla attacks in the area. I am not advocating anything like that.

    Israel demolishes the homes of terrorists.

    “The police are going deeply into the Arab neighborhoods [in Jerusalem], which has not been done in the past,” he said. “We will demolish terrorists’ homes. We are allowing our forces to take strong action against those who throw rocks and firebombs. This is necessary in order to safeguard the security of Israeli citizens on the roads and everywhere.”

    Palestinians may consider children expendable but houses are more precious. How would we implement such a policy ?

    Many mosques have been used to store weapons and plan attacks.

    This is certainly the case in Israel.

    The 38-page report includes photographic evidence of weapons being stored under pulpits and elsewhere in mosques during December and January’s Operation Cast Lead in Gaza. It notes that Israeli troops fighting Hizballah in Lebanon, U.S. troops fighting terrorists in Iraq and even Palestinian Authority officials in the West Bank have encountered similar practices.

    How about in the US ? Mosques have been shown to teach violent extremism.

    The mosques in the US are largely funded by the Saudis which promote the Wahhabi extreme version of Islam.

    Firm figures are elusive, but estimates are that the Saudis fund up to 80% of American mosques, at least in part. And their goal is the same here as it is elsewhere in the world where Islam must compete with other religions: to prevent Muslims from integrating into the host society.

    If a terrorist is shown to have attended a mosque, that mosque should be closed.

    The terrorists are also winning a psychological war in Europe. They identify police informants and force them to become suicide bombers. That is why so many are “Known Wolves.”

    These attacks, in other words, are designed to impress the Muslim public as much as they are intended to horrify the western public. In so many words, the terrorists tell Muslims that western police agencies cannot protect them. If they cooperate with the police they will be found out and punished. The West fears the power of Islam: it evinces such fear by praising Islam as a religion of peace, by squelching dissent in the name of fighting supposed Islamophobia, and by offering concessions and apologies to Muslims.

    Demolishing or closing some homes and a few mosques might signal more resolution than speeches by politicians. Deporting a few families would also be salutary.

     

    38 Responses to “How Can We Deal With Terrorism in the West ?”

    1. David Foster Says:

      No need to go all the way back to the Civil War….nuclear deterrence is, of course, largely based on the threat of collective punishment (by burning alive) of civilians. The term ‘hostage cities’ is even used in deterrence theory.

    2. PenGun Says:

      Possibly not allying with the Saudis and recognizing that they, not Iran, are the main sponsors of terrorism in the world, well outside of the US of course, might be useful. ;)

      Money talks and is the dog that wags the tail that is the government among other thing.

      Arguing for various punitive reactions might make you feel better but will not help the situation. Threatening various groups is just gonna light some fires. Perhaps what you want, I dunno.

      Finally there are all manner of other religions including Christianity that react badly to having their deity dissed.

    3. Mike K Says:

      PenGun, as usual, no help. I assume you know of a series of Baptist terror attacks.

    4. Mike K Says:

      An example of why Britain is probably doomed.

      As two men waited to be killed by terrorists, one criticized the other for offensive language against Muslims.

      There’s more at the link. It’s from Ace.

    5. Fuel Filter Says:

      A Desert Called Glass (or, one way to do it…)

      They were all gathered in one place. The Hajj was the perfect time to have a strategy and coordination meeting. The blessings of Allah and his prophet were on them all. They had just sat down to a meal of traditional rice and lamb and were going to save the business talk for later. They had time. Their sources told them that their enemies were on the run and had unilaterally given up and gone home. The hated Americans had no stomach for a fight and abandoned Iraq, Afghanistan, and the rest of the Islamic world. Even the filthy Jews seemed to have pulled back their spies and allies to their own territory. This was the perfect time to go on the offensive. The entire Western world would learn submission.

      ***

      On the border between India and Pakistan, a different conversation is taking place. A junior captain in the Indian Strategic Rocket forces has an uncontrollable smile on his face. “REALLY? You would not be shitting on me like this?” His commander confirms, “it is an order, from the top. We will be eliminating our nuclear stockpile as part of our new treaty with America and the Russians. A Global peace initiative.” The Indian captain smiles broadly. Good cheer spreads to the other officers in the room and he sat at his control console and began to enter the instructions.

      ***
      35,000 feet over the Islamic Republic of Iran, an obsolete Russian Airplane was lumbering along on a direct path to Tehran International Airport. The pilot was hand chosen. He had lost his only son when Islamic terrorists stormed the child’s school years earlier. He didn’t really care about the orders he had. Something about global peace initiative to reduce nuclear stockpiles. But he was really happy to be delivering this particular cargo.
      ***
      Mecca – Coffee was being served and greasy hands were being cleaned on shirt fronts. Servants were carrying away the remains of the feast.

      Then it all changed in a blink.

      The people inside did not even have time for their minds to register confusion about what was happening to them.

      And then they were gone.
      ***
      35,000 feet over Mecca. A US B-2 bomber turned gently onto a new heading. LTC Brown muttered into the coms, “one down, three to go”. He noticed large bright flares in the distant horizon at two other points.  He calmly mutters, “Get Some” and looks back at his checklist.
      ***
      India — The captain hit the launch button, firing his entire battery of nuclear tipped missiles into Pakistan. He remembered the faces of his cousins who had been butchered in a market bombing a few years earlier. He muttered, “Burn in Hell” as he watched the rockets leave their launchers.
      ***
      Not all the bombs hit at the same time. Some Islamic nations had more time than others to contemplate what was befalling them. But it didn’t matter. The results were the same. The 1000 largest Islamic population centers in the world had all just been obliterated. Other targets had been destroyed using conventional weapons when they bordered on “friendly” areas.  60 percent of the Islamic population of the world had been instantly incinerated.  Half of the survivors would die in the following days due to exposure, disease, fallout, and starvation.  No international organizations were organizing humanitarian relief efforts to come save them.   The effect was dramatic and permanent. Most of the world had expended most of their nuclear arsenals and their stockpiles of evil cluster bombs and determined to live in peace with each other henceforth. The world lived happily ever after.

    6. Phil Ossiferz Stone Says:

      If you go to the Pew and Gallup web sites and look at the various polls of the Ummah, you see — for example — that 86% of the supposedly moderate secular Jordanians favor the death penalty for apostasy. There is no moderate Islam. We have reacted to Black Hawk Down and 9/11 by importing millions of these inbred religious fascists into our country and planting them in colonia all over the continent. We have seriously fouled up — the Europeans even more so.

      A Muslim ban would merely be triage. To treat the disorder, we would need to delist Islam as a religion and classify it as a dangerous cult.

    7. Subotai Bahadur Says:

      Fuel Filter:

      Damn! BRAVO ZULU

      On a more depressing note, from the British Metropolitan Police:

      http://twitchy.com/sd-3133/2017/06/05/hmmmm-london-police-release-all-arrested-in-connection-with-weekends-deadly-attack/?utm_campaign=twitchywidget

      Britain is not ready or willing to defend themselves. It looks like the official conclusion is going to be that these just happened to be 3 “lone wolves” who were known to the security authorities, one of which was the star of a TV special “The Jihadi Next Door”, who by blind chance committed a joint terrorist attack accidentally at the same time with no co-conspirators.

      Darwin was a Brit. Darwin is going play a major role in the demise of Britain.

    8. Mike K Says:

      ” Darwin is going play a major role in the demise of Britain.”

      And Germany and France, but not Poland or Hungary.

      The question is what will Russia do ? They are facing demographic extinction.

      The CSIS no longer has Tony Cordesman’s estimate of an Israeli-Iran nuclear exchange on it’s web site,

      I did a blog post on it at the time.

      He sets the time as 2010. He estimates Israeli casualties at “between 200,000 and 800,000 Israelis dead.” Iranian casuaties would be far higher at “some 16 million to 28 million Iranians dead within 21 days.” His analysis of the outcome ?

      “It is theoretically possible that the Israeli state, economy and organized society might just survive such an almost-mortal blow. Iran would not survive as an organized society. “Iranian recovery is not possible in the normal sense of the term,” Cordesman notes. The difference in the death tolls is largely because Israel is believed to have more nuclear weapons of very much higher yield (some of 1 megaton), and Israel is deploying the Arrow advanced anti-missile system in addition to its Patriot batteries. Fewer Iranian weapons would get through.”

      The effect on the rest of the world ?

      “Walker concludes that Cordesman’s analysis spells out “the end of Persian civilization, quite probably the end of Egyptian civilization, and the end of the Oil Age.

      I doubt anyone is more optimistic now.

    9. Brian Says:

      “How Can We Deal With Terrorism in the West ?”
      Remember, the “We” is not the government. If the government cannot, or will not, protect the people, then the people will take matters into their own hands. The election of Trump was an act of desperation, but future acts could be even more desperate and extreme. There’s all this talk about facebook, twitter, and other social media, empowering terror groups, enabling asymmetric warfare, but the fact is that a small number of motivated people could easily take their own actions on behalf of the people. Think 4chan’s brilliant harassment of Shia Lebouf, but targeted at terror groups.

    10. PenGun Says:

      If I went off the chain there would be city blocks destroyed. I will not reveal how, as anyone with certain skills could put it together, in any modern city. I figured this out long ago while thinking about IEDs.

      OK folks, the fantasies of death and revenge are not healthy. War is stupid, and bad for living things.

    11. PenGun Says:

      “The question is what will Russia do ? They are facing demographic extinction.”

      Baffled. What does this mean? I mean 145 million people is a big pool.

    12. freddie Says:

      “How Can We Deal With Terrorism in the West?”

      *calling Charles Martel*

      Since we can’t tell the difference between “moderate” muslims and fanatics … send them back. Actually, as per the polls cited above, the only difference between “moderates” and fanatics seems to be the willingness to act, not the beliefs. As their beliefs are in direct opposition to the Western world and (historical) Western beliefs … send them back.

      As muslims who have been in the West for two or three generations haven’t assimilated (and tend to become more radicalized) … send them back.

      Want to help those poor, benighted refugees? Help them in their own lands (or near enough as to make little/no difference), DON’T let them into your house (country). Leave them where their customs/beliefs are the norm so they can return home when the crisis is averted.

    13. CapitalistRoader Says:

      Japanese Canadian internment

    14. Mrs. Davis Says:

      War is stupid, and bad for living things.

      Yes, your ideas would sound much better in German.

      We are not going to engage in genocide. And neither did Sherman. But he did make them howl. And that is what we must do. No more immigration, no more visas for OIC countries. Domestically destroy houses of all terrorist families. Declare Islam not to be protected under the first amendment, but a political movement not unlike communism…Are you now or have you ever been…Close all Mosques and deport all clergy/agitators. President to attend church service where Onward Christian Soldiers is sung. Other Hymns?

      Time to recognize we are at war and have been since 1979.

    15. PenGun Says:

      “Time to recognize we are at war and have been since 1979.”

      You do understand the Iranian revolution was just lifting the US’s foot off their back?

      You do understand the US deposed the elected PM and imposed the Sha on Iran as democracy is a real threat to US control?

      No, I doubt you do understand.

    16. Mike K Says:

      Pennie, I doubt you know any history beyond last week.

      The Shah’s father was a Nazi ally. He was deposed as part of World War II. Remember that ?

      Rommel’s Afrika Corps was very close to Cairo and if Iran had become a Nazi ally when von Kleist was racing into the oil fields of Azerbaijan, the German Russian campaign might have turned out quite differently.

      The British deposed the Shah to stop his machinations in favor of Germans. At the end of the war, the US Tehran Declaration of 1943 became policy and the Soviets left northern Iran.

      Mosadeggh was probably a communist and nationalized the Anglo-Iranian oil company at a time when knowledge of how to run it was low in Iran.

      The Wiki entry was obviously written by an Iranian loyal to the present regime. He uses “our country” in places describing events. One of the few neutral entries is:

      The withdrawal of support for Mosaddegh by the powerful Shia clergy has been regarded as having been motivated by their fear of the chaos of a communist takeover.

      The US “foot” you allege was to make the Shah free to modernize his country. The Shia clergy have taken them to the brink of extermination. A nuclear war would mean the end of of Persian civilization.

    17. PenGun Says:

      “A nuclear war would mean the end of of civilization.”

      Fixed that for you.

      The Sha’s dad is your main point? His son was imposed to get Mosaddegh out of the way. It’s true Wikipedia and truth both have a liberal bias, wonder why, but this might help:

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammad_Mosaddegh

      I don’t believe the CIA even denies it anymore.

    18. PenGun Says:

      The reason the middle east is in flames is almost completely the fault of the USA.

    19. freddie Says:

      “The reason the middle east is in flames is almost completely the fault of the USA.”

      I have no problem leaving them alone in their middle eastern hellhole — no reason for Americans to die for them. In fact, let’s send their brothers, sisters, wives & cousins back there because importing them to the West has been an act of abuse. Expecting people not to mutilate their daughters or rape children or kill non-believers? Yeah, we Westerners have impossibly high standards. Go back and kill/abuse/mutilate each other — not my problem.

    20. Mike K Says:

      “His son was imposed to get Mosaddegh out of the way.”

      Only ten years separate the events.

      I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed man.

      The Middle East is in flames because Mohammed lived (maybe) 1400 years ago.

      We invented the weapons and I accept our fault there. They have not invented anything but swords.

    21. Sgt. Mom Says:

      “They have not invented anything but swords.”
      And suicide bomb-belts. Don’t forget the suicide bomb-belts.

    22. Mike K Says:

      Yes, bomb belts seem to be the Palestinian’s chief industry.

      The swords were ale]ready invented but Damascus steel was an improvement.

      Of course, like most Muslim achievements, it helped with killing.

    23. Mike K Says:

      The fake suicide bomb belts of the idiot jihadis in London is a new wrinkle.

      Maybe they couldn’t afford explosive.

    24. Rich Rostrom Says:

      “the Germans in World War I … would round up innocent civilians and execute them to punish guerrilla attacks in the area.”

      In fact the Germans in WW I shot hundreds of Belgian civilians in “response” to imaginary guerrilla attacks. The Germans had convinced themselves before the war that Belgium would just surrender without fighting; when Belgium not only resisted, but substantially delayed the German march into northern France, they became angry and frustrated, and started lashing out.

    25. Anonymous Says:

      “The reason the middle east is in flames is almost completely the fault of the USA.”

      Not according to Osama bin Laden:

      What America is tasting now is only a copy of what we have tasted. Our Islamic nation has been tasting the same for more than 80 years, of humiliation and disgrace, its sons killed and their blood spilled, its sanctities desecrated.
      7 Oct 2001

      He was almost certainly referring to the Treaty of Sèvres, Britain and France’s carving up and annihilation of the Ottoman Empire. The US Senate refused to participate. The Treaty resulted in Britain and France no longer having to depend on the US and Mexico for oil because they had their own Middle East fields.

      31 years later, the Protocol of Sèvres again had Britain and France (and Israel) invading an Arab country for economic gain. And again the US was against European warmongering.

    26. PenGun Says:

      Very strange. The Iranians have done nothing but overthrow the government the US imposed. The Saudis did 9/11 and created ISIS but you love them and hate Iran.

      Madness as far as I can see.

    27. Mike K Says:

      WE know about your “vision” pennie.

    28. Brian Says:

      “The Iranians have done nothing but overthrow the government the US imposed. The Saudis did 9/11 and created ISIS but you love them and hate Iran.”
      Not sure why we bother anymore, but:
      First, you are conveniently ignoring the decades long terror campaign Iran has supported against the West, from Beirut to Buenos Aires.
      Second, the average American already doesn’t like the Saudis one bit, but you can be sure if they ever hold dozens of Americans hostage for over a year, you can be sure our relations will be quite different.
      Third, politics is a hell of a thing. One could pretty easily draw the conclusion that Pakistan actively aided 9/11 far more than the Saudis, yet we are buds with them as well.
      If another 9/11 scale attack ever happens, American politics will change so much that Trump will look like Gandhi. I say “if”, but really we know it’s more like “when”.

    29. Grurray Says:

      Mosaddegh came to power in Iran because the previous liberal prime minister was assassinated by Islamic revolutionaries.

      He wasn’t elected to the position, as is commonly told in the conventional narrative. He was appointed by the Shah according to their constitution, and he was dismissed by the Shah according to their constitution, in what was Iran’s fourth coup (if you can call it that) of the 20th century – not counting Razmara’s assassination nor the assassination of Hasan Ali Mansur in the 60s.

      The CIA is the convenient bugbear for every failed state, but Iran was always on the brink because of its surplus of Islamic crazies.

    30. PenGun Says:

      “WE know about your “vision” pennie.”

      This is insanely funny Mike. WE! OMFG. ;)

    31. Subotai Bahadur Says:

      >>>>”This is insanely funny Mike. WE! OMFG. ;)”<<<<

      Mike, I would be proud to be associated with you in making the plural "WE" official, if y'all will have me.

    32. Grurray Says:

      US led coalition forces increasingly clashing with Iranian backed militias and Russian fighters in southeast Syria

      https://www.csmonitor.com/World/Middle-East/2017/0606/At-remote-desert-garrison-in-Syria-a-US-Iran-confrontation-is-brewing

      The goal now is to link Kurdish controlled areas with Jordan, so then we can establish a supply route from the Red Sea to Northern Iraq.

    33. PenGun Says:

      “Mike, I would be proud to be associated with you in making the plural “WE” official, if y’all will have me.”

      ROTFLMFAO You guys have made my day.

    34. PenGun Says:

      “US led coalition forces increasingly clashing with Iranian backed militias and Russian fighters in southeast Syria”

      Serious stuff. We may finally see an unlawful force attacked by an entirely lawful force. That will be revealing. They will not put up with this for long.

      Yielding to the current trend here.

      Russian fighter call up US fighter/bomber, says drop em’ and I drop you.

    35. Brian Says:

      Hahaha. If you think the Russians would do that you’re insanely delusional. Vlad ain’t stupid. They probe for weakness and move forward unless they sense resistance, which means they’ve done a lot of advancing lately, but they’re still pitifully weak. The fact that their client in Damascus still doesn’t control most of his country shows that quite clearly.

    36. Grurray Says:

      The talk now is that Iran is pressing Assad to share power with their militias, who are mostly comprised of Iraqis and Afghans. As Brian says that’s not something the Russians signed on for when stretched so thin already.

      Anyway, it looks already baked in the cake, judging by our new policy towards Qatar, home of CENTCOM, and also our sudden interest this year in Yemen. It’s all making sense now that this is the start of our long overdue withdrawal from the Persian Gulf. I will never doubt Mattis or McMaster again.

    37. PenGun Says:

      “Hahaha. If you think the Russians would do that you’re insanely delusional.”

      As I said “Yielding to the current trend here.” So yes unlikely. What may happen is a couple Caliber cruise missiles. That’s far more likely, but yes Vlad likes to play Diplomacy.

      Diplomacy is a very fine board game as well. A classic, stab your neighbor, at just the right time, game.

    38. PenGun Says:

      It’s sorta a done. What the Syrian army did was go past, north east of the US backed group, then blitzkrieg, south east, to the Iraq border and met up with the Iraqi army.

      So the US backed group is effectively surrounded now, and can’t get to any ISIS forces even if it wanted to.

      The main force of the Syrian army is clearing around the Golan and starting to move north east to clear the Jordanian border.

      I’m not sure what the US can do about this.