That’s the Democrats’ message to Trump supporters. As Michael Anton puts it in They Can’t Let Him Back In:
Anti-Trump hysteria is in the final analysis not about Trump. The regime can’t allow Trump to be president not because of who he is (although that grates), but because of who his followers are. That class—Angelo Codevilla’s “country class”—must not be allowed representation by candidates who might implement their preferences, which also, and above all, must not be allowed. The rubes have no legitimate standing to affect the outcome of any political process, because of who they are, but mostly because of what they want.
Complaints about the nature of Trump are just proxies for objections to the nature of his base. It doesn’t help stabilize our already twitchy situation that those who bleat the loudest about democracy are also audibly and visibly determined to deny a real choice to half the country. “No matter how you vote, you will not get X”—whether X is a candidate or a policy—is guaranteed to increase discontent with the present regime.
“No matter how you vote…” – let that line sink in. When was the last time an American political party or movement so vehemently expressed such a sentiment about a large bloc of American voters? (Perhaps it was Democrats re black voters in the pre-civil-rights South.)
And it’s not only the Democrats. The Republican leadership seems more eager to make demoralizing (to their own side) compromises with the Democrats than to fight them on issues that are important to the Republican base.
Neither the establishment Democrats nor the establishment Republicans will acknowledge that they are the problem and that Trump and his voters are symptom rather than cause. Suppressing symptoms tends to make the underlying problem worse. Nonetheless our political establishment remains dead set on continuing to anathematize Trump and to tell his supporters they have nowhere to go. This is not a sustainable situation and sooner or later something will have to give.
(I wrote this post before the FBI raid on Trump’s house. The news about the raid emphasizes the points I tried to make here, to put it mildly.)
Lex adds:
The Democrats similarly are disregarding their base who were desperately in favor of Bernie Sanders. But they managed to prevent him from getting nominated and co-opted him.
Ordinary Americans are not having a good time and they are not happy. Both party establishments are afraid of their own bases, with good reason.
I linked to this piece in one of the comment threads a couple weeks ago.
As you note, this isn’t a Dem vs GOP issue. It’s a ruling class vs the filthy unwashed masses issue. Both parties represent the former. The question is whether the “new class” of the highly educated, the bureaucrats, etc., can be rousted from power, and whether they will allow themselves to be disempowered without burning everything down, like the nihilists we talked about here recently. So far the outlook isn’t good.
(The Bernie base is much smaller than the Trump base. And he has zero cross-racial appeal, unlike Trump.)
(Has chicagoboyz ever had an expletive in a post title before? I think tonight of all nights calls for it, but don’t think it’s ever happened before…)
Sometimes its warranted, best in another language for impact.
Like with james william kunstlers journal
“Ordinary Americans are not having a good time and they are not happy.”
Every one gets what they deserve? Well that what I think, although its not popular. Voting in actual clowns to run your country is going to have an effect.
Social and Political Contract is gone. Ballot Boxes don’t work and both parties are pleased, proud, and happy about it. Jury Boxes only work where there is one rule of law. Which we do not have. Does anyone seriously expect an honest election in November, or any real election in 2024?
Subotai Bahadur
They certainly dont act that way
From the linked piece:
What happens then? Well, in the words of the “Transition Integrity Project,” a Soros-network-linked collection of regime hacks who in 2020 gamed out their strategy for preventing a Trump second term, the contest would become “a street fight, not a legal battle.” Again, their words, not mine. But allow me to translate: The 2020 summer riots, but orders of magnitude larger, not to be called off until their people are secure in the White House.
I recall predicting years ago that violence was coming to the US in my comments here and elsewhere, but I don’t ever recall having a clear picture of what form that violence would take.
Well, here it is. They intend to make war against their domestic political opponents, which presumably will include killing them if they resist, via mob violence.
Has anyone told the FBI about the planned insurrection? Hahaha.
Anyway, the thing about war- the enemy has a say in how things turn out. I imagine that the rank-and-file leftists tasked with being the street fighters for this adventure expect that they’ll have a grand old time clubbing Trump supporters, of course with legal impunity and free health care too.
I suspect they will be disappointed. I think once the game gets rolling so will the killing. The left has spent my entire life making it clear that they hate America, American culture, and Americans. They literally never stop frothing at the mouth on that topic, and yet never seem to notice that they’ve been teaching their enemies to hate them right back.
Alas.
Not going to be street fighting between left and right, because like you said, the left does in fact have impunity to do that. Remember that antifa guy straight up murdered that guy in Denver a couple years ago, and nothing happened to him, while Kyle Rittenhouse was made an example of for doing absolutely nothing wrong. A couple guys just got sentenced to prison in Portland for shoving an anti trash who was in a group harassing them, and other than Andy Ngo I saw no one even mention it. Prosecutors and judges are more than happy to destroy anyone who dares defend themselves against their lefty brownshirts. The normies don’t like seeing violence. And the FBI has no qualms about making up incidents whenever they want to.
Besides abolishing the FBI, which is necessary but unfortunately won’t happen, Congress needs to say that all of these political cases must be tried in Wyoming, or similar.
I think we could see Mar A Lago surrounded by supporters from now on. No one’s going to be allowed in without explicit permission from the top. It will take discipline to make sure no false flag undercover feds try to provoke violence. Good chance FL law enforcement will take part as well. Last night I saw a FL state senator urging the state cut off all cooperation with the FBI and arrest agents operating without permission. Hell’s been unleashed now.
Why do you think the federal government is hiring an additional 86,000 IRS agenst rather than, say, 86,000 immigration officers. They are preparing for a war aginst the middle class and require additional troops.
Simplest explanation is that Our Betters have no plan; they have simply recognized that “Apres nous, le deluge”. Burn it all down, and then maybe folks won’t notice that it was all their fault.
And so they launch an unaffordable proxy war against Russia. They send off Nancy the Lush to piss off China, on whom we all depend for so many things we cannot make ourselves, from medications to computers. And they allow the situation in the damn fool Balkans to start boiling over. Since none of those external disruptions are bringing things to a crisis point fast enough, they send their goons after a former President.
Our Betters will get their desired societal breakdown. But we will remember that they caused it. The historical analog is the French Revolution, which did not go well for the class of “Our Betters”.
A disquieting thought, mentioned in comments at Sarah Hoyt’s blog – that the Ruling Class may be going full-steam ahead with stupid, counter-productive and unpopular programs, because the election fix is already in. The outcome of the midterms is already fixed in their favor (or so they believe) so they are free to enact all kinds of unpopular and damaging things. Because THEY DON’T CARE, and because they will pay no penalty for bringing about the disasters which are almost inevitable.
I don’t think the elections are completely rigged. Otherwise Youngkin wouldn’t have won, etc. There is a big margin of fraud, but it’s clearly much bigger in presidential election years, and they do need big turnout to mask the fraud. They just barely pulled it off in 2020. The Dems are going to get crushed in November, and with some more proactive actions by the GOP, and no sabotage by the GOPe, 2024 should be a victory as well. We just need to get people in office who know what time it is, not pitiful squishes and traitors.
I think the apparatchiks in the WH do not realize they are messing around with fire. The similarity to Germany 80+ years ago comes to mind, along with ‘disappearances’ that occurred in the USSR, and other fine places. In this case it was not people that were confistcated, nor weapons, but paper documents. Perhaps it was nothing but a trial run, but whether or not, it was noticed by a lot of people, and should serve as a wake-up call to those who think their political opposition is just making noise, with nothing behind it.
They have said what they have said, and to not take them at their word is foolish, among other things.
He was raided for documents the National Archive wants. They say he took them illegally when he left the White House.
If he is dumb enough to have incriminating evidence at his house, then they will try to put him in a position, where he cannot run again. That’s what they really want.
I am very worried that the Midterms have already been determined to have been won by the Democrats, and the November elections results are going to be a fraudulently won Democratic sweep.
I used to believe a second Civil War to be very, very unlikely. Now, I am not so sure.
Penny, feel free to go ballwash Fidel Jr and keep your bootlicking nonsense focused on scary Canadian truckers, we don’t need your input right now.
Expect to see a Whitmer-style false flag event in the next couple months. They need a new “January 6”, and will do anything to create one. I would fully expect them to go even further past planning to execution if need be, no one’s buying their schtick anymore.
“Penny, feel free to go ballwash Fidel Jr and keep your bootlicking nonsense focused on scary Canadian truckers, we don’t need your input right now.”
Oh dear, am I interrupting your rants with facts? I am the only person who has posted the reason for the FBI raid so far.
I don’t like DJT and am only able to vote for him by fighting down waves of nausea. But this is beyond the pale. It would be fascinating to see voter enthusiasm numbers before and after this. We’re talking Spinal Tap dialed up to 11 among Conservatives and probably a solid 9 among moderates.
Just back from voting in WI primary. I’ve never seen so many names on the ballot. Contested races, emergence of actual Libertarian and Constitution Party tickets. First time I’ve ever seen a campaign worker standing across the street in shirt supporting her choice. There is a wave building, and I don’t see how it can be thwarted.
Normal people are fairly easy going on most matters. They should be. But you don’t mess with their children and you don’t take away their ultimate ability to Throw the Rascals Out.
Like most tsunamis there will be a short interval when the water retreats a long ways out. Fools dance on the beach and pick up pretty shells.
Tacitus
[Deleted by Jonathan. Keep it civil.]
Q: Why did the Democrats order the FBI to break into President Trump’s home illegally and steal things?
A: Because Dopey Joe can’t find the Nuclear Launch Codes, and he thought that President Trump might still have them.
Oh dear. Are we having a bad day Brian?
Every one gets what they deserve? Well that what I think, although its not popular. Voting in actual clowns to run your country is going to have an effect.
So, Fidel’s boy is not a clown ? Canada depends on agriculture and little Fidel has decided to prevent farmers from using fertilizer. It’s pretty cold up there to give up all fossil fuels.
Oh no. He is most certainly a clown and I am ashamed to be a Canadian. I say that a lot these days.
The times certainly are turbulent. When left and right hate Trudeau up in the Great White, what’s that say about the End Times? Years ago, when I lived in Sandy Eggo, the Canadians, like Geese, would come down around October and stay until spring. We used to have many discussions in the hot tub, and my point was that the West and East Coasts of the US and Canada have for a more in common with each other than their respective opposite coasts…
I an ambivalent about Trump just as I was when he was running. Would he still be President if his personality wasn’t so abrasive? No doubt though the things he enacted during his short 4 years was far more productive from a conservative point of view than any other “Conservative” Republican President. His installation of conservative supreme court justices is his greatest achievement IMO. Rolling up ISIS in 2 years when for 8 previous years it as allowed to grow and fester. Would things in Afghanistan be different today had be been President?
I think so.
But his personality was/is so divisive.
I think Biden won because of Trump – not that people liked Biden.
I forgot to add, good point about the “Ruling Classes” of the Repubs and Dems in re: Sanders and Trump. Interesting times we live in.
“I think Biden won because of Trump – not that people liked Biden.”
Well, that and absolutely massive voter fraud in Atlanta, Philly, Milwaukee, and Phoenix.
“The times certainly are turbulent. When left and right hate Trudeau up in the Great White, what’s that say about the End Times?”
I dunno ’bout the end times, I’m not into comics myself. I am ashamed to be a Canadian for a few reasons, but the main one is that we have been training the Nazis in Ukraine since 2015.
Zoolander is james franco stupid chrysta freedlander nee chemiak is the other thing.
We see the project 2030/ Wef plan quite clearly
“chrysta freedlander nee chemiak” An actual Ukrainian vampire. ;)
}}} He was raided for documents the National Archive wants. They say he took them illegally when he left the White House.
Yeah, the same bunch also said that he was a Russian plant.
Ask me just how much I believe anything they say?
Allow me to give you an approximation:
Think of the smallest number you can imagine. Divide that by 10^10^100.
THAT number is exponentially larger than the trust I place in what they say…
}}} I am ashamed to be a Canadian. I say that a lot these days.
I may be mistaken, but that’s the first time you’ve said it here… So, if you’re saying it “a lot”, we got no evidence to support that.
Why would I lie to you?
I am active in several places on the interweb, and that’s where you will find me being ashamed of my country. Especially on Canadian outlets, and I’m pretty well banned from CBC for being a Debbie Downer. ;)
I think Biden won because of Trump – not that people liked Biden.
I disagree. I think Biden won because of Zuckerberg and his fellow oligarchs who are now running things. I think the mail-in ballots did it and that is why it is so hard to prove. It’s interesting that Washington state, which is 100% mail-in ballots, had only a 20% turnout in the recent primaries. I wonder if WA citizens suspect their votes don’t count anyway?
Bill, I question how real the issue of Trump’s ‘abrasiveness’ is. Is he more abrasive than Biden, who likes to challenge people to fistfights and brag that his IQ is higher than that of a questioner he doesn’t like? More abrasive than the notoriously-crude LBJ?
a contact I have in wisconsin, says the primary ballot is digital, hence no signature match, well I would expect no less, from Tony Cadaver, and the apparat
But his personality was/is so divisive.
I disagree. He became “divisive” when the Deep State decided that they needed to destroy him.
Before that, they were fine with him.
In fact I suspect a big reason they treat him as the devil is that they know full well he is not divisive at all to most Americans- and that terrifies them.
The first time I can recall paying any attention to Trump was when he was a guest on the Rush Limbaugh show, talking about Obama’s birth certificate. Subsequently, Obama released that routine document, after polling indicated that Trump was starting to cause Democrats to wonder why he wouldn’t.
It occurred to me then that Trump had made more of an impact upon Obama than the entire GOP, because the entire Republican party establishment soiled itself anytime anyone mentioned the birth certificate question.
A small thing, but Trump made Obama do something he didn’t want to do. The Gee Ohhh Peeee was, as usual, irrelevant.
A Trump administration with Trump-aligned Republicans controlling Congress would be the end of the Deep State, in my opinion. The Deep State knows this full well, hence the endless and insane attacks upon him.
It appears that they are quite willing to destroy the Republic utterly and forever to avoid a second Trump term- and why is that, exactly?
a contact I have in wisconsin, says the primary ballot is digital, hence no signature match, well I would expect no less, from Tony Cadaver, and the apparat
I’m going to need to borrow Sarah Hoyt’s extremely overworked shocked face here.
I mean, I’m shocked, shocked.
Tell me again that Biden won, because this has to be about 70,000th time I’ve seen something about Democrats conniving to make elections easier steal.
because they stole the country to wreck it, sorry fundamentally transform it, tomato tomato,
so delta house was just a pretext, like ergonikon, the turkish flavored coup, this aggressive lawfare was prefigured in wisconsin, with the cyndi archer raid, which the 7th circus signed off on, this was chisholm’s wrecking crew, to go after walker, in wisconsin, like shepherd tells malcolm in serenity ‘they come at you sideways’
“a contact I have in wisconsin, says the primary ballot is digital, hence no signature match, well I would expect no less, from Tony Cadaver, and the apparat”
Wisconsin here:
I showed ID and signed one of those electronic signature pads (they always make your handwriting sloppy) in order to get my ballot with the little ovals you fill in. It was electronically scanned when I put it in the scanner on the way out.
“like ergonikon, the turkish flavored coup” Except that did not work, Vlad had his back. ;)
ergonikon was the ‘insurrection’ first by the grey wolves, see azov battalion, then gulen’s followers,
A disquieting thought, mentioned in comments at Sarah Hoyt’s blog – that the Ruling Class may be going full-steam ahead with stupid, counter-productive and unpopular programs, because the election fix is already in.
Well, maybe. I have a different take, although I admit that predictions are hard, especially about the future.
I think these folks have better knowledge about the state of the electorate than we do. After all, they have access to data from the NSA, Facebook, etc. They know full well they’re viscerally and bitterly unpopular- and are acting now, before the roof caves in on them.
I further think American elections have been marinating in fraud for a lot longer than I’d have been willing to believe in 2020.
For example, I recall radio host Hugh Hewitt discussing polls regarding Senate races in 2006. There were several with the GOP candidate reported to be narrowly behind. He looked at the internals and was pointing out that (for example) the Republican share of the vote had never been as low as that used in the poll. If it was adjusted to something actually resembling the electorate, the Republican was ahead. Then came election night and those candidates all lost- and I distinctly recall thinking that the polls were right after all.
Well. Then came the astonishing charlie foxtrot of 2020. One poll had Trump down 17 points in Wisconsin, which was obvious bovine excrement. I found I had cause to reevaluate my past experience in light of events.
I think what they’ve been doing- since at least 2006 and likely earlier- was using these phonied-up polls to calibrate the amount of vote fraud needed. They would tell all the trusting voters that the polls said X- and when X happened, everyone was OK with it. The problem came about in 2016 and after, as the turnout became too unpredictable to fake convincingly.
That is, Trump came along and has brought a swarm of Trumpy candidates with him. I will note Kari Lake, who won despite the most democrat county spending days not reporting. Apparently it would have taken 125% turnout to overcome her leads in the other counties.
Perhaps Maricopa county simply ran out of printer paper, but I’ll take it.
Wisconsin here also. I showed my ID, was handed a ballot, filled in the little ovals and shoved it into the machine. Nothing really digital about it besides the counting machine. While I don’t trust this fully, I trust it a lot more than the absentee stuff that goes on. That’s why I always vote on election day. By the way, it was the busiest I have ever seen it for a primary.
My daughter and I also – think that the reason the swamp creatures came out with this move against Trump, is because that the candidates that he has endorsed are winning in local elections. In their lights – this simply cannot stand. It was a resoundingly ill-considered move,
well they ‘fortified’ the election, because covid, the monkeypox panic is not having the desired affect, yet,
I showed my ID, was handed a ballot, filled in the little ovals and shoved it into the machine.
This has always been my experience. As I wrote in another thread, the only difference has been that this year, the device I shoved the ballot into was one of the infamous Dominion voting machines. Of course, the poll workers made a great show of checking my ID.
But I note my state already has a large city with a well-known problem with elections. In 2016, a recount had to be abandoned because the reported vote totals matched the actual ballots cast not at all. This became known, then a curtain of silence descended, and of course nothing was done to prevent a repeat.
How scared is the regime today that it has to replace voting machines in suburbs despite the massive fraud in that city?
I’m going to guess “terrified.”
Xennady @ 0354
The nature of the coming unpleasantness is, I suspect, going to be different from anything seen before. Imagine multiple ongoing siege operations.
One of the basics of matters military is that amateurs talk tactics and professionals talk logistics. Look at the divisions in not only our country but also all over the industrialized Western world. Generally, urban areas are where the Leftist totalitarians live and rural areas are where more Conservatives live . Numerically the difference between the two is great, favoring in theory the urban areas. At least at first appraisal. And incidentally, it will flat chupar [Spanish] to be in the suburbs where there is a greater intermix and the Leftists are used to being able to be as extreme as they wish with no fear of consequences. This will cause more extreme behavior and sudden imposition of consequences.
In any case, while it will not be a good thing for any Conservatives in urban areas [when things hit the fan, leaving at the first hint would be a good thing] just as it would not be a good thing to be a Leftist totalitarian in rural areas [same advice] the division is better for Conservatives despite the numerical difference.
Speaking purely theoretically, the one of the main differences between city and country is the number of people per square mile. Every man, woman, and child in both urban and rural areas is a logistics drain. Each requires a certain amount of food, water, and energy [electrical, heating, gasoline] per capita. Cities are incapable of producing, with rare exceptions, a sufficient supply.
Ponder ground access routes to a city. Rail or road access. Ground is not level. Every highway, road, or railroad has modifications to allow it to go over gullies, etc. Each is a choke point. And each choke point will get worse as traffic backs up. And no, I really do not fear a mass foot exodus because these are untrained urbanites that will have women and children slowing them down.
The axiomatic food supply in a city without resupply is 3 days in warehouses and stores. That’s if they can get the food from the warehouses to the stores. Plus what is in each residence. Closing ground routes blocks food supplies. Noting also that internal violence will destroy a significant portion of it.
Cities require outside sources of energy, mostly electricity and natural gas. Almost all of which comes from or through a rural area. More choke points. Possibly most importantly they need water, preferably treated. That almost always comes from a rural area and has choke points. Noting that Rome finally fell for the last time as an empire when the barbarians figured out what aqueducts were and how to take them out.
This is going to be worse than the 30 Years War compressed into a few weeks.
Not exactly tidings of comfort and joy.
Oh, I also believe that it is very possible that the Left believes it has the “elections” rigged enough to win them regardless of how people vote. The problem is, is that an election that is regarded as illegitimate will not be honored.
Subotai Bahadur
“ergonikon was the ‘insurrection’ first by the grey wolves, see azov battalion, then gulen’s followers,”
Thank you, that is most interesting.
Nothing the turtle is on the case
https://nypost.com/2022/08/09/trump-raid-sparked-by-boxes-of-materials-including-kim-jong-un-letters/?utm_source=twitter_sitebuttons&utm_medium=site%20buttons&utm_campaign=site%20buttons
On Trump’s abrasiveness I reminded of something he claimed while president: that he was “greater than Ronald Reagan“.
In many ways I think he was Reaganesque but the difference between them was that Reagan just ignored his detractors and Trump would have to go swinging against anyone who publicly disagreed with him.
And I think he made political enemies of Republicans like Jeb Bush that he did not have to. Why be personally insulting to people that could help you later on?
Reagan tried to enact his vision through Congress and Trump tried to enact many things by executive order which Biden rescinded.
Many historians claimed the George Bush Sr won “Reagan’s third term “.
I think that is true. Reagan had the potential to start a conservative dynasty and Bush Senior diluted it.
But I also I have read something interesting about Trump that I also believe is true: that he was a disruptor president. One that was not content to work through the status quo. As such naturally you would make some people mad but where I had a problem with him is that he had to go swinging against anyone against him.
Why not just smile, as Reagan did, and work getting your agenda through? That used to piss off Reagan’s detractors even more. Play called him the “Teflon President “.
Part of me was happy that Trump called out some members of the press like Jim Acosta. The other part of me thought it’s just wasted energy but it did energize his base. Trump publicly railed against things that so much of his base, including me, agreed with.
David – all of trumps antics did not bother me as I suspect most of his base but there was a sizable block of people who were on the fence and those antics turned them off.
Just like people who would claim they couldn’t stand Rush Limbaugh but never listened to him or only heard him a few minutes.
Trump became a lightning rod.
And I wonder how turbulent the times are today. I’m old enough to remember the 60s.
When you had groups dedicated to bombing federal buildings and there was a huge schism with Vietnam.
Is the political climate today more dangerous than then?
I honestly can’t answer that.
Somebody in the Lex Facebook group put up a great interview with David McCullough promoting his book of about three years ago called the American Spirit
And he mentioned these turbulent times but also said 90% of the Americans are good and law abiding.
Something we seem to forget.
Just like the left that wants to “defund the police “when the overwhelming majority of police are good.
I do believe that there is a “ruling class“ in both parties that dislike disruptors like Trump and Sanders. And they are feeling threatened.
Interesting times.
I wanted to add about Canada that all the Canadians I’ve talk to on Facebook hate Trudeau so where is he getting his support? I suspect it’s eastern Canada and perhaps Vancouver. I guess you could say Vancouver is the Seattle of Canada.
Well I am enjoying these discussions.
The problem is, is that an election that is regarded as illegitimate will not be honored.
I have no real disagreement with anything in this comment- but I do have further commentary to add.
I get the sense that the left simply doesn’t care about elections, period. If they don’t win, then the election is illegitimate. I note that leftists I’ve read frequently would opine that if only the public was given the option to vote for an honest-to-God Stalinist, then they’d win in a landslide. Crazy.
This is going to be worse than the 30 Years War compressed into a few weeks.
I sure hope not, because:
Cities require outside sources of energy, mostly electricity and natural gas.
I work in that sort of industry. If I can’t get to work, or feel compelled to flee, or I’m dead- well, a lot of other people have faced a similar fate and likely that city won’t be able to have lights or heat. And there won’t be treated water produced, let alone gasoline.
The axiomatic food supply in a city without resupply is 3 days in warehouses and stores.
I used to work in a store. It’s been a while, but my guess is 1 day. One. A semi showed up every night with food to put on the shelves for the next day. If it did not, a lot of the shelves stayed empty. By day 3, it would be a lot worse. Even without anyone deliberately attempting to make it such.
No refineries operating- or not enough- not only no gasoline, but no diesel. No diesel, no groceries delivered to stores. No food. Then, you know…
I have long been unpleasantly reminded of an obscure science fiction book that I read a long time ago, entitled Outcasts of Heaven Belt, from 1978, by Joan D. Vinge.
Basically, an asteroid-based civilization succumbs to civil war, for no good reason, and almost everyone dies. Not because of violence- but because the infrastructure that allowed civilization to exist was destroyed.
30 years war into a few weeks- yep, that’s it.
Well they didnt try to keep reagan out of office, there was a subsequent interval of indepemdent counsels and even thd october surprise sham to try to erase his legacy.
We see most of the press corps were like rabid dawgs in part fed by intel operatives and other provocateurs and now the lie down like tame pups. As the media and academia spread their insanity like a plague
Bill Brandt:
But I also I have read something interesting about Trump that I also believe is true: that he was a disruptor president. One that was not content to work through the status quo.
See: https://chicagoboyz.net/archives/58579.html
Trump is indeed a disruptor, he is also an intuitive thinker…he sees things that others haven’t, at least not yet…for example, he grasped the relationships among offshoring, the rise of China, hollowed-out cities, and drugs/alcohol/deaths of despair. He is not a particularly disciplined thinker, though, and he is not good at translating his insights into a 1-2-3 format more comfortable to more conventional thinkers.
I wanted to add about Canada that all the Canadians I’ve talk to on Facebook hate Trudeau so where is he getting his support?
That’s easy. From Dominion voting machines. As the saying goes, it’s not who votes it’s who counts the votes.
Is the political climate today more dangerous than then?
I’ll say yes.
Back, then we had a leftist regime being pushed to the left by leftist mobs. The existence of the regime was not challenged by all this. I’d argue that the only thing that prevented the Democrats from holding the executive branch from 1960 on was their own incompetence, especially the jaw-dropping idiocy of Lyndon Johnson and the insanity of their base in 1972.
The situation is very different today. Absent massive and obvious vote fraud, the present regime would not exist. I think the regime is fully aware of that, which has many consequences, including the ceaseless and ludicrous claims that our elections are the cleanest and most secure ever.
And I think he made political enemies of Republicans like Jeb Bush that he did not have to. Why be personally insulting to people that could help you later on?
What makes you think Jeb! would have ever been willing to help Trump later on, in any way, shape, or form?
Why can’t members of the GOP establishment be grownups once in a while, forget about their tender feelings, and work with the elected president of their party? For example, like Rick Perry did.
But no, it’s always Trump’s fault for failing to dance to their tune quickly enough, just like before Trump it was always the fault of the GOP base for not accepting the establishment’s agenda thoroughly enough to- for example- make Mitt Romney president.
Obviously, I’ve had enough of that.
Good comments here. It’s 0138 and I am lying in bed so I’ll have to respond more tomorrow.
As far as Jeb bush, who knows? But if you are the winning candidate and try to be conciliatory it’s amazing the friends you can gather particularly if you offer them some thing in the administration. He was very popular in Florida that should count for something. I think Trump alienated just about anyone he was running against. Heck he’s even alienated Mike Pence post election with his statements about January 6.
When he was running he couldn’t simply say I disagree with so-and-so and here’s why. I think he was condescending towards anyone who disagreed with him.
All that being said I don’t regret voting for him. I was pleasantly surprised with what he was able to get done despite a wall of opposition.
And as I said his selection of judges which Biden cannot overturn might be his crowning achievement.
David good points.
Jonathan I’ll look that up tomorrow
Trump’s biggest mistake had nothing to do with being mean to anyone, let alone Jeb!, it was when he fired Mike Flynn. That moment of weakness and disloyalty led to everything else.
You could write a compelling history of our times centered around Jeb!, an uninteresting man but extremely interesting figure. If the FL Dems don’t steal his first gubernatorial election he’s almost certainly the Bush brother nominated and elected in 2000. He couldn’t possibly have done as bad as his idiot brother. He then helps to clean up FL elections–Miami used to be every bit as dirty as Philly, Milwaukee, Atlanta, etc.–the fact that the GOP has never cleaned up those places shows they don’t want to, they’d rather have the Dem establishment in charge than have honest elections. Then he’s pushed forward for 2016 by the corrupt and braindead GOPe, finally leading to the rise of the angry populist GOP base that had been threatening to revolt for a couple decades. If he wanted to he probably could be an establishment bridge to the populist base–it might save his kid’s career, even, but they’ve decided they have no interest in that, so onto the trash heap they go…
The meme that Trump couldn’t work with anybody else in the GOP can be overrated.
Ted Cruz, who probably more than any other 2016 candidate had reason for personal animus against Trump given Trump’s baseless claims about his father and the JFK assassination, did not go the Liz Cheney route. Neither did Marco Rubio. Without Mitch McConnell holding his nose to get judges nominated they wouldn’t have been there to confirm (IIRC this was a big failing of the supposedly competent Obama WH. They had plenty of open slots to fill with liberal judges but lagged badly in getting nominations to the Senate). I recall reading a piece that Trump worked pretty well with Kevin McCarthy in recruiting and fundraising for GOP House candidates in the 2018 midterms which helped blunt the usual out-party gains that year.
The animus against Trump does seem to have more of a personal edge. Like the old jib about faculty lounge politics, I think this is because the internal GOP differences on issues is pretty small which magnifies minor deviations (the Democrats suffer from this, too, as a reflection of the political version of the Great Sort). However, this isn’t really new. Before MAGA and RINOs there were the ‘Rockefeller Republicans’ against the ‘Republican Grassroots’ and ‘Wall Street vs Main Street’. Reagan lead a revolution in the GOP in the late 1970s before he transformed the country in the early 1980s.
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Trudeau’s Liberals are still winning the most seats though not a majority. This isn’t unique to Liberals. Stephen Harper lead a Conservative minority government immediately before Trudeau took over.
I was an admirer of jeb till i saw what nclb/ignite did in the public schools yes those two stupid pieces of fusion sourced tripe were not helpful (that roger stone vouched for both shows his lack of judgemenf) but you look at the big picture those judicial nominees did not prevent the theft of thd nation they just furthered it
The top men are just efficient tax collecters for the welfare state and i should add the warfare state you look at how little progress we have accomplished in the 20 year long expedition how far the enemy has advanced
Something that many of the comments ignore is that the Mar-a-Largo raid has turned into a Democrat own goal in less than 24 hours. It took the media, at least the media that I read, about 15 seconds to track down the “judge” that signed the warrant and verify his political leanings. Thus further de-legitimizing the judiciary as well as the FBI/DOJ to half the country.
As to whatever charges against Trump may eventuate, I’ve noticed that the DOJ seems largely impotent against defendants that are able and willing to mount a serious defense. They’re strength seems to be intimidating some schlub that couldn’t afford to defend a traffic ticket by stacking charges and years in prison while his public defender whispers into his ear that it’s hopeless. Considering the lightning pace of the Durham investigation, Trump should wish to live so long as to see some sort of conclusion.
On that note, not to cast aspersions on the youth of those of us here gathered, we should all hope to live long enough to see the 86,000th additional IRS agent hired. I doubt they could do it by 2032 tax season. This is a pure pander to their “base”.
There are no electric vehicles, nor likely to be in the foreseeable future, that can qualify for the rebates. If there were, their price would immediately increase by $7,500. Another pure pander.
What we are confronted with is just more evidence of the Democrats monumental incompetence. Not time to panic just yet.
Bill Brandt: “Is the political climate today more dangerous than then [1960s]?”
Arguably — Yes.
Back then, the disruption came from the Outsiders — communist sympathizers, disaffected youth, misplaced idealism, draft resistors. The political Commanding Heights were held by people whose hearts were in the right place, no matter how monumental their incompetence (eg LBJ).
Now, the disruption comes from the Insiders. The kind of people who were Outsiders in the 1960s are now inside the gate and running the government. They combine incompetence, evil intent, and stupidity in some unpleasant proportions.
The other big difference is that in the 1960s, the US was the undisputed technological & manufacturing center of the world. We were generating plenty of tax revenue, we had limited debts, and our credit was good. Today, we have a hollowed-out economy, huge unrepayable debts, and a dangerous dependency on imports for many essentials. The Design Margin has almost gone.
So, looking at the overall situation, things today are much less stable than in the 1960s. The potential for truly significant disruption is much higher.
“Trudeau’s Liberals are still winning the most seats though not a majority. This isn’t unique to Liberals. Stephen Harper lead a Conservative minority government immediately before Trudeau took over.”
You have to hand it to Stephen Harper for holding power for so long in a basically left wing country. Trudeau does not have a majority, but with the NDP he has made a deal with, is untouchable for the next couple of years. Its the third party, that is almost a real left wing party, that makes it so difficult for conservatives to take and hold power.
Works for me although I don’t like any of em’ much.
“There are no electric vehicles, nor likely to be in the foreseeable future, that can qualify for the rebates.”
Perhaps the main reason I am buying an electric car, is our actual incentive in Canada, which is $5000 from the feds and now $4000 from BC. So I get $9000 towards the price of that EV.
America’s latest effort in this area has actually made it worse for some people.
Perhaps the main reason I am buying an electric car, is our actual incentive in Canada, which is $5000 from the feds and now $4000 from BC. So I get $9000 towards the price of that EV.
Govt EV purchase incentives promise to do for electric cars what govt guaranteed student loans have done for college tuitions.
Reagan lead a revolution in the GOP in the late 1970s before he transformed the country in the early 1980s.
Reagan was considered as dangerous to the Establishment as Trump. In 1976, he was forced to choose Richard Schweiker, an establishment squish to ally the fears of the party elders. For a similar reason he chose GHW Bush, his worst mistake, in 1980. Reagan was considered almost as toxic as Trump.
“Considering the lightning pace of the Durham investigation, Trump should wish to live so long as to see some sort of conclusion.”
That’s because the system doesn’t ever want that investigation to go anywhere. If/when they decide to go after Trump harder, things will happen as fast as they want them to.
re: Durham, even if you believe he’s a white hat and not actually on a delay and cover-up mission, this is what he’s dealing with:
https://twitter.com/JamesAGagliano/status/1557142987720859648
“A former senior FBI lawyer, Kevin Clinesmith, who was found guilty of forgery in the Trump-Russia probe has been restored to “good standing” status by the District of Columbia Bar Association despite not fully completing his probation sentence.”
So you get to lie in order to get a warrant to spy on a presidential candidate (via a two-hop process starting with a known CIA asset), and even if you plead guilty you get a few months of a meaningless formal punishment. Of course you only plead guilty if you’re a sucker. Go to trial in DC and you’ll never get convicted.
“Govt EV purchase incentives promise to do for electric cars what govt guaranteed student loans have done for college tuitions.”
Not really a problem with our incentives. They are tied to a reasonable price for the base model.
Our student loans have not been the problem that American ones have come to be. We do a lot of grants and at 15 years the loans are forgiven.
also re: Durham, I’m not sure I quite buy all this, but Sundance is usually correct:
https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2022/08/10/during-trump-raid-feds-refused-to-provide-warrant-demanded-security-cameras-be-turned-off-trump-security-team-refused-the-documents-are-likely-related-to-ratcliffe-declassification/
Knowing the details of the DOJ and FBI targeting operations against Donald Trump as a candidate and president (2015-2020), I suspect Trump took some of the declassified (by him) evidence of that targeting with him.
We remind ourselves that since leaving office, former Office of the Director of National Intelligence, John Ratcliffe, has stated on multiple occasions that there were documents he and Trump declassified for the Durham team and to be made public.
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I am willing to bet the current documents at the heart of the controversy are copies of those same previously declassified documents that are against the interests of the current ODNI, DOJ and FBI to release.
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The national archives are a false front, a general institutional tool for use in creating the optic/narrative of a valid reason for challenging President Trump over documents. The real motive of the DNI, DOJ and FBI are to get the evidence of the prior corrupt activity back in their total control. I am confident this is the real scenario that people are not discussing.
Mike K .. yup, I remember Reagan that way too. “Voodoo Economics”, anyone?
I’ll repeat a comment I made elsewhere today.
As much as I loath the tone of Andrew McCarthy’s post yesterday regarding the Mar-a-largo raid, I think he is largely correct in his analysis of the tactics based on his experience. Claiming to be securing classified records from Trump is a cover story to both deflect from the real investigation and because the DOJ lacks a reasonable predicate to get a warrant to search for J6 materials. Garland is searching for some document that can be twisted into evidence of a ‘plan’ to disrupt the Electoral Vote certification.
The idea that he can be barred from running for President based on a conviction over classified records is a fantasy. Statutes can not change the Constitutional qualifications.
A recent poll release suggests that the J6 hearings are not having the effect the Congressional Democrats and their GOP hangers-on desire. I get the feeling this raid was to up the ante. A Pennsylvania Republican Rep who supports Trump had his phone grabbed yesterday as well.
Reagan was considered as dangerous to the Establishment as Trump.
Note also that the GOP establishment also had an insurance policy in the form of Illinois Congressman John Anderson. I’m pretty sure he was intended to siphon off enough Republican votes from Reagan to ensure Carter won re-election.
Anderson got something like six percent of the vote, which obviously wasn’t enough.
“Reagan was considered as dangerous to the Establishment as Trump.”
I don’t think it’s plausible to say this. Reagan wanted to spend *more* money on defense and be more aggressive. He may have spoke some about shrinking government, but that’s a simply impossible task. Trump was the first president to question the competence of the MIC in any serious way.
But I think the main difference is that “the establishment” is far stupider and more corrupt now than it was 50 years ago. Clinton and Obama were both filthy grifters. That story about Clinton screaming on election night that they were all going to hang is almost certainly true. They knew they had gone way over the line and should all go down. So they were desperate to do anything they could to hamstring Trump and prevent anyone from going after them.
could we change the header on this thread:
Reagan was against the detente current in foreign policy, and the domestic soft on crime and welfare programs, he had some progress on the former, less on the latter, the ’82 recession had a lot to do with out,
Brian, you say “Reagan wanted to spend *more* money of defense and be more aggressive” as if those were Establishment goals in the late 1970s.
I don’t know how old you are, but Reagan was presented as Ronnie Ray-gun, the Red-baiting racist dolt intent only on looting as much for himself and his cronies as he could before blowing everyone up.
That was the Establishment view. All else is post facto trimming.
Reagan was LOATHED by the Old Line Republicans; he wasn’t as much of an outsider as Trump but he was not popular.
The meme that Trump couldn’t work with anybody else in the GOP can be overrated.
True. I think the idea that Trump couldn’t work with anyone else was a crock concocted by the usual suspects of the GOP establishment.
It seemed to me Trump was very intent upon working with the existing institutions- but they just would not accept him.
Thinking that they would was Trump’s key mistake, in my opinion.
Trump’s biggest mistake had nothing to do with being mean to anyone, let alone Jeb!, it was when he fired Mike Flynn.
I’m quoting this, because I think the important thing is why Trump fired Flynn. That is, because neither of them realized how corrupt the regime had actually become. Reportedly, Flynn simply thought the FBI agents were coming over for a friendly chat. I’d guess Trump thought there was really some sort of crime involved, at least for a while.
I bet they both know otherwise now, as do millions of likely voters.
Claiming to be securing classified records from Trump is a cover story to both deflect from the real investigation and because the DOJ lacks a reasonable predicate to get a warrant to search for J6 materials.
I agree and also suspect they were looking for evidence that Trump was talking to FBI whistleblowers.
“Reagan was considered as dangerous to the Establishment as Trump.”
I don’t think it’s plausible to say this.
I was mainly talking about 1976 but I disagree with you. I remember very well the hysteria by the Vichy Republicans. They thought he would start a war. Remember his “voice check” saying the bombing will commence…” That was no accident. It was planned. That and the ATC strike and firing probably won the Cold War.
I think the important thing is why Trump fired Flynn. That is, because neither of them realized how corrupt the regime had actually become.
I agree with this. There was a time, probably pre-Clinton, when most federal employees were honest and patriotic. Maybe it was before LBJ because he was dishonest and his war radicalized a lot of young lefties.
Reagan was LOATHED by the Old Line Republicans; he wasn’t as much of an outsider as Trump but he was not popular.
Yes and maybe it is an age thing. Bob Dole led the opposition in Congress and lost the Senate majority in 1982 by delaying the Reagan tax cut. “The Senator from Archer Daniels Midland .”
What we are confronted with is just more evidence of the Democrats monumental incompetence. Not time to panic just yet.
I heartily endorse this comment.
The “judge” who approved the warrant- which the FBI reportedly wouldn’t show to Trump’s lawyer on scene- was thoroughly involved in the Epstein scandal. He may even have been a client, hence may even have been blackmailed by the FBI into approving this warrant now with threat of prosecution, and certainly was doing things that will certainly look really bad as the story develops.
Not only is this evidence of monumental incompetence- but desperation as well.
“The idea that he can be barred from running for President based on a conviction over classified records is a fantasy.”
Part of the spin, for the raid, was that they had information that he was destroying some of the documents they wanted from him. Its most definitely an attempt to bar him from running again, if they can possibly do so.
remember he was advised by the committee on the present danger, some of those like the late general rowny, and professor pipes, were the lead soviet experts, unlike regime dilletantes like strobe talbott,
https://tinyurl.com/yc37pmmb
old standby pretexts, the problem with flynn is pence’s shop was a hive of deep staters like walters, troye, short et al,
Yes, I know the establishment opposed Reagan, I guess my point is he wasn’t viewed as “as dangerous as Trump.” That’s an exaggeration. He had been deeply involved in politics, perhaps on the edge of mainstream but within reasonable limits, whereas Trump was a complete outsider. And again I present as evidence that they didn’t come after him anything like they came after Trump.
Xennady @ 1836 hrs.
Running extra candidates to make sure that the official Republican candidate, if popular with the conservative base, loses to the Democrats. Here in Colorado we started our current string of Democrat governors 12 years ago when the candidate overwhelmingly nominated by the Republican base was someone they did not want. So after he was nominated, they refused to be involved in his campaign and had Republican Congressman Tom Tancredo switch to Constitution Party. As a minor party, they are under different rules. In return for a hefty payoff the Constitution Party dropped their own governor candidate and put Tancredo in. The Colorado Republican Party massively financed the Constitution Party and it took enough away from our candidate that the Democrat won. And we have had Democrat governors for 12 years and the Republicans control nothing. They are happy with it. By the way, Tancredo became a Republican again the day after the election. And the Constitution Party cashed its checks.
In 2014 Tancredo tried to run for governor as a Republican again in 2014. The campaign did not last long as he was boo-ed when he made primary campaign appearances. I know. I saw it and participated. But the Republican Party got what it wanted, preferring submission to defeating Democrats.
Subotai Bahadur
And where exactly are the GOPe trash while the FBI goes full gestapo?
https://www.pennlive.com/news/2022/08/fbi-delivers-subpoenas-to-several-pa-republican-lawmakers-sources-say.html
FBI delivers subpoenas to several Pa. Republican lawmakers: sources say
They’re nowhere to be found. They need to be threatening/promising to go nuclear on every Democrat politician. Nancy, we’re going to absolutely get all of you and your hubby’s investments for the past 40 years. Chuckie, we’ll get your phone records for the same time, let’s see who you’re chatting with, bet there’s some interesting characters. Etc. That’s the only way to stop this. Fact is they don’t want to. They’re all compromised and crooked, and are happy for the FBI to be doing this.
if you follow legitimate balloting rules, you engage in fake electors, see how they gaslight you, all the while, they are changing the electoral count act for reasons,
And we have had Democrat governors for 12 years and the Republicans control nothing.
I very much recall reading years ago similar anecdotes of yours about the antics of the Colorado gop just after listening to similar stories in person, from someone involved in my own state’s worthless republican party. I was very cranky that night in my internet commentary
Running extra candidates to make sure that the official Republican candidate, if popular with the conservative base, loses to the Democrats.
Clever, isn’t it? That said, I think the rise of Trump and the power of his endorsements has almost neutered this tactic.
But the Republican Party got what it wanted, preferring submission to defeating Democrats.
Which is a rather significant reason why so many people departed the Republican Party Plantation to live in Trumpland, in my opinion.
We are in the endgame of the present regime. They have been reduced to clumsily raiding the homestead of the former president, based upon a warrant from a not-quite-a-judge, etc.
Interesting times…
would you run Trump again? Why or why not?
From 2016: Tom Wolfe’s view of Trump
https://spectator.org/65918_tom-wolfes-view-trump/
I was for cruz, as I’ve made my view clear, we know now that fusion was targeting both, in part with those silly droppings that roger stone, picked up,
“The Democrats similarly are disregarding their base who were desperately in favor of Bernie Sanders.”
Sigh. I wish people would not talk about Bernie as if he’s some sort of wonderful advocate for ordinary people. He’s a grifter; he’s done very little for Vermont other than embarrass a whole lot of us. His support comes overwhelmingly from the hordes of well-off transplants from dark blue East Coast cities who have flooded into the state and have taken over places like Burlington, Middlebury, Montpelier, and Brattleboro. He is not all that popular with the rural, native Vermonters, the farmers and tradesmen who actually do real work.
“It’s a ruling class vs the filthy unwashed masses issue.”
Ye-e-e-ah, but . . . .
Here’s my favorite political joke: Wernher von Braun – he aimed for the moon but only managed to hit London.
There isn’t a war on ALL the filthy unwashed, only the white ones. Only the white middle and lower classes. If you’re not commenting on the blatant racism that permeates and defines this campaign you’re not dealing with its true nature, and this is in fact why conservatism has been such a failure at opposing the totalitarian left. (The same establishment actually does everything in its power to enable the worst elements of the non-white unwashed, as a weapon against the white population.) Conservatism talks about the class bigotry involved, but never talks about the racism, because at some level it has internalized that racism.