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  • Random Thoughts on Zimmerman

    Posted by Dan from Madison on April 12th, 2012 (All posts by )

    1. Will the Black Panther Party give the bounty money (remember the dead or alive thing?) for Zimmerman to the police department where he turned himself in?

    2. And more seriously, does anyone besides me think that there is zero chance Zimmerman walks? I bet his own lawyers have already sold him up the river for a reduced charge. Alternately, I think that Zimmerman might kill himself – he is already acting quite irrationally, going around his attorneys and talking to the authorities, as well as having a rumored conversation with Sean Hannity. Never, ever, ever, ever, ever talk with the police without your attorney present!

    3. Even more seriously, I am guessing there will be riots somewhere, somehow for some reason over this. Evidence be damned.

     

    22 Responses to “Random Thoughts on Zimmerman”

    1. Bill Brandt Says:

      The whole thing has been pretty disgusting. From the portrayal of Trayvon as a little innocent child (we all saw his later picture) to the doctoring of the 911 evidence by NBC (with little retribution, it would seem)

      Zero chance that he can find a jury that hasn’t been tainted. And having a carry permit probably got him in this mess – as Bill Cosby said it was probably “the gun” that gave him the courage to confront little Trayvon.

      He should have just kept his mouth shut and observed. Had he done tthat there would have been no fight.

    2. Will Says:

      Despite this being a nasty, political media trial, I’m surprised at the lack of representation and potential defense teams speaking out, ie; “Gonna be tough getting an impartial jury, with all the media, hit sqauds, etc. etc”

      This media circus has absolutely nothing to do with the dead kid, and everything to do with legal gun ownership, self-defense and laws that allow for it. The timing and location of the show coincide nicely with the upcoming Tampa GOP convention. Expect the Brawley Brigade (and Herr Holder) to stage “actions”. If the Governor is smart, he’ll already be working on a riot contingency.

    3. Jonathan Says:

      Here is an email I sent to Lex last night:

      Cool. The FL governor showed that he can be pushed into appointing a
      special prosecutor, which made an indictment likely. Now the
      prosecutor has charged Zimmerman with the most serious charge
      possible. Groovy. If he gets convicted it will look like he was
      railroaded, and if he is acquitted the feds will try him on civil
      rights charges. Not to mention the civil suits afterwards. I don’t
      think it’s possible at this point to find an unbiased jury, so jury
      selection will takes months at best, and when they do select a jury it
      will probably be biased against him. (This is precisely the kind of
      case in which the defense would be justified in trying to exclude
      black jurors, but doing so will not be allowed unless the defense can
      provide signed statements from jurors in which they confirm that they
      will vote to convict no matter what.) There will also be implicit and
      explicit threats of violence that may further corrupt the trial
      outcome. Zimmerman faces, at best, an ordeal lasting many years even
      if he is acquitted. It’s also possible that state self-defense laws
      will be gutted as a result, or that the Obama DOJ will start
      selectively pursuing civil rights cases against whites who defend
      themselves against black criminals.
       
      Obama loves all of this because it distracts public attention from his
      own disastrous performance as president. He will do whatever he can to
      fan the flames of race hatred and keep the Zimmerman legal circus
      going. He is singlehandedly setting back race relations by fifty
      years.

      I would add:

      -My comments apply regardless of whether Zimmerman is guilty. If he really is guilty as charged then he deserves whatever he gets. However, even if he is guilty, the fact that he is being subjected to the full weight of the legal system apparently for political reasons and possibly in response to threats of violence will have bad results for everyone in the long run.

      -Even if the laws aren’t changed, on the margin people may become more hesitant in the future to defend themselves from criminal attacks. This may be one of the goals of some of those who have been clamoring for prosecution in this case. The Left doesn’t have enough public support in most states to get legislatures to criminalize self-defense or to roll back pro-self-defense reforms of the past couple of decades, but if enough self-defenders get the Zimmerman treatment it’s the same thing. This will also have bad results, in the form of more crime, and less respect for law by law-abiding people, in the long run.

      -Zimmerman seems to want his day in court, as do many commentators who have been clamoring for his arrest. But he is screwed no matter what happens, as is any other poor schmuck who feels the full force of the legal system. The Governor and special prosecutor, having started this process, have a stake in getting a conviction and may not take a hint if the first jury deadlocks. The jurors may feel pressure to convict to avoid riots. Either way Zimmerman’s defense is going to cost his family a lot of money, probably all of their money and more.

      This is one of the better commentaries I’ve read on this topic. It was written before Zimmerman was indicted. So far it’s holding up pretty well.

    4. SteveP Says:

      “It was written before Zimmerman was indicted.”

      Zimmerman hasn’t been indicted. He was charged by the prosecutor. The case still has to be presented to a grand jury.

    5. Dan from Madison Says:

      @Jonathan – as our boots on the ground in Miami, what is the general feeling there? Are there marches? Does the public in general seem angry/interested/engaged?

    6. Jim Miller Says:

      Any chance he walks?

      Sure, all he and his attorney have to do is convince one juror that there is “reasonable doubt” about the prosecution’s case. (Assuming it goes to trial.) And, from what I have read, there is nothing implausible about his claim that he was defending himself.

      That the local prosecutor didn’t indict him, didn’t even bring him before a grand jury, shows something about the weakness of the case against Zimmerman.

      If he is acquitted, no doubt Holder would then try to use civil rights laws against him.

      But, like Hugh Hewitt, I expect that any acquittal would be followed by riots — especially if our “mainstream” journalists continue covering the story the way they have. And I think they will.

    7. Jonathan Says:

      SteveP: Are you sure about this? I thought the special prosecutor declined to present the case to a grand jury and isn’t required to.

      Dan: I don’t know.

    8. pst314 Says:

      “I expect that any acquittal would be followed by riots”

      And I wouldn’t be surprised to see a conviction followed by celebratory riots.

    9. Bill Brandt Says:

      Jonathon – that (Warrior Talk) IS the best commentary i have read on the matter.

      Some years ago I had a carry permit.

      Used to carry a S & W .38 – the “Airweight”.

      If anything carrying it made me want to avoid potential troublesome situations all the more.

      The take home quote from that commentary: I and [sic] teach my students that they should seek “distance from disorder” in their lives, and unless something shocks the consciousness of humanity, to mind their own business.

    10. Dan from Madison Says:

      The Warrior Talk piece is excellent.

    11. Jeff the Bobcat Says:

      I don’t see how Zimmerman can get an impartial jury at this point. Imagine the threats and pressure on the jury to convict. If the New Black Panthers had a bounty on Zimmerman, why not on members of a jury?

      Looks like the media is getting what they wanted, another ratings circus.

    12. ErisGuy Says:

      does anyone besides me think that there is zero chance Zimmerman walks

      I think the jury will either hang or acquit him. I sure hope he doesn’t plead. I can’t ask him to be symbol for La Raza, however.

    13. Robert Schwartz Says:

      “I thought the special prosecutor declined to present the case to a grand jury and isn’t required to.”

      Apparently Florida allows a prosecutor to avoid a grand jury and to proceed on an information. The fact that she did it that way leads me to believe that the prosecution is purely political, but that the case has enough holes in it to make her reluctant to expose it to a grand jury.

      AFAIK, self-defense must be asserted and proved by the defendant. So, the prosecutor can proceed even if she knows that the defendant might assert self-defense, and knows that the defense might have sufficient amount of evidence to carry his burden.

      One of the real advantages in proceeding in this way, is that the prosecutor can drag out the proceedings until well after the fall elections. She would be well advised to do so.

      I think that anybody who wants to opine on this case would be well advised to wait until all of the evidence is presented at trial.

    14. Michael Kennedy Says:

      “He should have just kept his mouth shut and observed. Had he done tthat there would have been no fight.”

      Are you sure ? One version of the story says that he went back to his truck. Look at the map . There he was confronted by six foot Trayvon who asked “You got a f**king problem ?” When Zimmerman replied “No.” Trayvon said, “You got one now and attacked him. The gun was not in sight until it was exposed during the struggle. Trayvon then tried to wrestle it away, saying “You’re gonna die tonight.”

      That is admittedly a version of the story favoring Zimmerman.

      The real giveaway of the results will be where the trial is set. The OJ trial was moved from Westwood, where the crime took place, to downtown LA because the Santa Monica courtroom was “too small. That was the giveaway that he was to be tried by the black inner city jury which acquitted him. The civil trial which did convict him was in west LA.

      The Rodney King trial took place in the western suburb where the crime took place. The riots occurred in downtown LA. The police officers were then retried on civil rights violation and convicted. Stacey Koon who saved King’s life by ending the situation in which a female CHP officer (who later testified for King and retired on emotional disability) was about to shoot him as he wiggled his butt at her. Koon’s thanks were four years in prison. I sent money to his family while he was incarcerated.

      Watch for the trial location for a clue. If it is in inner city Miami, he is toast.

    15. Whitehall Says:

      There are important principles at stake here.

      Self-defense is one, obviously, but the right of civil society to monitor its own environs is another. This would add a state monopoly on vigilance on top of a presumed monopoly on violence.

    16. Bill Waddell Says:

      I think there is an excellent chance of him walking. Appears to me the prosecutor just kicked the can down the road. Make it the court’s fault if JD walks – she did her best. And if he is acquited before November Obama won’t let Holder touch it.

    17. Michael Kennedy Says:

      “And if he is acquited before November Obama won’t let Holder touch it.”

      That’s an interesting observation. Bush obviously felt it necessary to respond to the riots by ignoring double jeopardy issues. Maybe Obama doesn’t care because he knows he’s got the rioter vote locked up.

    18. Anonymous Says:

      Michael – you make some valid comments. Something Zimmerman did started the exchange – was he staring at him? Following him? No I am not trying to shift the blame but something had to get this going.

      I have no doubt – based on his Twitter picture – that he looked like trouble – but something had to happen to get the exchange going.

      Key is if Zimmerman walked away – and Trayvon followed him.

      I do resent how this whole thing has been ginned up – misrepresented – you sure can’t form a well-informed opinion reading the newspapers – or watching the “nightly news”.

    19. Michael Kennedy Says:

      That Warrior Talk post is good and cynical and very close to what Derbyshire wrote. I have to think anyone is a fool to volunteer for neighborhood watch. Mind your own business ! My wife was once talking to a police lieutenant at a party and he said, If you shoot anyone who is trying to enter your house, be sure to drag his body in.” I suspect that is no longer good advice as moving the body could be detected, but it was probably said in a satiric cynical way. Just like Derb would have.

      By the way and OT, a huge upheaval in China is going on right now. How it ends is not known yet.

    20. Bill Waddell Says:

      Michael – my thought exactly. Going after Zimmerman won’t get any more black votes but will likely cost a lot of white votes.

    21. Kirk Parker Says:

      Whitehall,

      the right of civil society to monitor its own environs is another.

      Yes indeed. This is where I part company with Warrior Talk’s analysis.

    22. Whitehall Says:

      Kirk,

      I see this issue of neighborhood and civic responsiblity as an intended victim here. If we are supposed to just hole up in our house, watching TV, we will be lost as a society as our views and actions will be controlled by the MSM. Americans lose and the Estabishment wins.

      The leftist cause will advance just another step down their intended path.

      But like so many of Obama’s political gambits, this one will come back to bite him. The racial riots after the Great Society got going lead to Nixon’s law-and-order-themed victory over Humphrey. Lets hope the Silent Majority shows up at the polls again in 2012.