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  • A Bridge Too Far?

    Posted by Sgt. Mom on November 12th, 2020 (All posts by )

    The Daughter Unit – who is an even more die-hard conservative than I am – and I have been coming to terms with what happened last week, in the wake of the election. Not to put too fine a point on it, we were distressed, disbelieving, and horrified at how that has gone. And then we were both deeply angry. It’s an anger that I have trouble quantifying, when all is said, considered and done.

    Look, we’ve known for years about dirty deeds done with sheep and ballot boxes … especially the ones that show up out of the clear blue. LBJ notoriously got elected by a couple of those, early on. It’s also pretty strongly suggested that JFK got the 1960 election because of fraud at the polls, and Nixon didn’t want to make a big thing out of contesting it, because … reasons. Patriotic reasons, for which he never got any credit at all.

    But this latest is just too obvious. Too blatant. Too ‘in your face, and what are you gonna do about it, you lying dogface pony soldier?’ The roughly-reported evidence of ballot boxes appearing out of the blue in the wee hours, of so-called “glitches” transmuting Republican votes to Democrat, of Republican observers told to go home it’s all over – while the fraudulent counting goes on in a closed room. Goes on, and on, and on …

    It’s been going on for years, stories of epic voter fraud. And all that we ever get out of it is a whining, measly whinge about ‘ok, we’ll do better next time, promise cross-your heart spit-swear we will’… only nothing is ever done about epic vote fraud such as a turnout of voters in certain areas well over the recorded census count of living, breathing humans in that particular district. We all know it. Only this time it was too blatant for the usual excuses and rationalizations. No, the votes and enthusiasm of Trump voters cannot be set aside, not without protest. Not this time.

    Meanwhile the National Establishment Press continues gaslighting at simply epic rates, in acclaiming the senile and corrupt women- and kid molesting old fart, Joe Biden, as the clear winner in the election. Never mind that the national establishment media do not posess any authority when it comes to declaring a winner. Never mind that they have essentially embargoed mention of the contents of Hunter Biden’s laptop. If it had been a laptop belonging to a Trump son – does anyone sane believe that clear evidence of political corruption, and personal corruption in the form of substance and sexual abuse wouldn’t have been front and center from our Establishment Media, and shouted to the heavens from social and entertainment outlets. No, now we see that the National Establishment Media is utterly corrupt and partisan; this year has confirmed what we merely suspected with good reason before.

    No. The National Establishment Media and the election corrupticrats have taken it a bridge too far this year. Discuss as you wish. And may G*d have mercy on us all.

     

    115 Responses to “A Bridge Too Far?”

    1. ed in texas Says:

      The biggest problem overall is, this society is built on trust. You trust people around you play fair and by the rules. They’ve now demonstrated that lying, cheating, and stealing are on the table and available for use. Basically, you’d be a chump not to use it.
      They’re not going to like where this goes…

    2. Xennady Says:

      Things work until they don’t.

      It seems to me the demonrats did pretty well as long as their opponents were the craven bootlickers and backstabbing political traitors of the gee ohh peee, but they couldn’t get by with the usual measures once their opponents weren’t. They’re desperate, hence the extreme risk-taking we see now. If Trump remains president, they’re screwed. He will sweep with the scythe of destruction through their ranks, ending them, because in my opinion this term he won’t have anything to fear from the hapless gop establishment.

      Regardless, the Republican party is dead without Trump. It is a bloated carcass kept afloat by the lack of a viable alternative and Mitch McConnell’s senate seniority. It has no viable program to win national elections nor does it seek one. It is controlled by people with all the cleverness of firemen looting a burning building, figuring the evidence will be destroyed no matter what. Forgive my rambling but I have a deep and visceral loathing of the GOP establishment, and we were invited to discuss as we wish.

      Anyway, if Trump does not prevail, I would not be surprised. I am a fan of The Fourth Turning, which I believe has been discussed here, although perhaps not recently. It struck me that the tyrants won, until they were overthrown by some sort of rebellion. For example, if the Dredd Scott decision had stood, slavery would have been de facto legal everywhere in the US, regardless of state law. And obviously the Revolutionary War required rebellion as well.

      So what about now?

      First, political crises don’t end in a day, or a week. After the election of Abraham Lincoln, it took months for the situation to devolve into violence. And the English government was shocked to discover that they had a war on their hands, after Lexington and Concord. Presently, we don’t know how the massive and obvious vote fraud will shake out politically. But I will suggest that whatever the consequences are, they will not end when either Trump or Harris- excuse me, Biden are inaugurated early next year. Yes, obvious.

      Second, political legitimacy for regime is a lot like airspeed for an aircraft. Everything can seem perfectly fine, right up until it runs out. It has always struck me, watching US politics, that the public has voted one way, then another, without getting any substantive change in policy. Meanwhile, the approval rating for the government has been awful and getting worse. I still remember years ago hearing Pat Caddell- Jimmy Carter’s pollster- stating that the American people were in a pre-revolutionary state, leaving the interviewers in stunned silence.

      Third- hence, Trump. His election was a revolution- and the hysterical, flailing reaction from the political establishment against him was a sure sign that they knew it. Again, their resort to massive and painfully obvious vote fraud- and a frantic effort at censorship to prevent people from finding out about that- is a sign of their desperation.

      Fourth, more violence is certain. Either Trump’s electoral victory is recognized and the left restarts the riots or Biden’s fraud gets him installed as president and his handlers make decrees that guarantee resistance against them- but either way, violence.

      Interesting times, as the saying goes.

    3. Brian Says:

      It certainly looks like brazen theft. My question is what the heck is the NSA even for if it can’t be used to stop nonsense like this attempted coup, or any of the last 4 years of previous attempts?

    4. Xennady Says:

      My question is what the heck is the NSA even for if it can’t be used to stop nonsense like this attempted coup, or any of the last 4 years of previous attempts?

      I’m sorry what?

      The NSA is every bit a part of the coup as is the FBI, the CIA, and demonrat party.

      It’s all the same tree, making the same fruit.

    5. Seasick Sailor Says:

      It’s true. The NSA is shot through with people actively undermining the country. Don’t ask me how I know.

    6. Gordon Scott Says:

      Ed in Texas has it right. Minnesota’s election system was designed for a very high-trust society of nearly all northern European people. And it was fine until Gov. Wendell Anderson cranked up the welfare system in the 1970s, drawing in people who didn’t bring that high-trust ethos with them. Still, it was not a huge factor in elections. Fraud happened at the margins, because both parties agreed that it should not be tolerated.

      But in the last 20 years, the Democrats have gone from “Of course people would cheat if we let them” to “There’s no evidence of cheating, and never mind that we don’t look for it.”

      Now add in 100,000 Somalis, for whom government is either a means of oppression or an oppressor (depending on which tribe is in charge). Since elective office is a means to power, they’re going to take advantage of any high-trust systems to mine them for what they want. They think we’re fools, and they’re mostly right.

      What the Democrats don’t realize is that the Somalis don’t have any loyalty to the Democratic Party. They naturally allied with it, because that’s who had power in the cities. But when it comes to spreading money around to harvest ballots, it’s an equal opportunity game. The harvesters will work for whoever is paying.

      I suppose the difference is that if Republicans try it, the media will go nuts for months on end. When the Democrats were caught, every elected official just shrugged if they responded at all, and the media talked about how icky James O’Keefe is.

    7. FromtheAlthouseblog Says:

      omorrow, Friday the 13th, is National Facebook Exit day. If you’re outraged about their straw man (or outright lying) “fact checks” and censorship directed squarely and only at conservatives, don’t just deactivate your account, delete it. Move to MeWe. I actually like it better so far anyway, more granular control over what you see from and share with each friend.

      Also, for that reason and also if you care at all about privacy and not having your personal data sold:

      Dump Twitter for Parler.
      Dump Google for DuckDuckGo.
      Dump YouTube for Rumble.
      Dump any other browser for Pale Moon or Brave.
      Feel free to add on.

    8. Exasperated Says:

      I don’t know if Trump will prevail but I don’t think the Prog culture will respond to anything unless it hits them in the pocket book. All we can do is identify and support businesses that are not anti-American, buy local, avoid the big box stores in favor of Mom and Pops, not that this ever helps much. Support businesses that the Left wants boycotted, like Home Depot and Chick-fil-a.
      Considering the forces that the global oligarchs (billionaires, multinationals, financialists) arrayed against Trump, its kind of a miracle he is still standing. : They had their sellouts in the governing class and the bureaucracy undermining Trump at every turn, coupled with academia and media, manufacturing non stop anti-Trump narratives. In addition, they had the army of public sector drones, backed up by an army of easily manipulated, shallow, and histrionic soap opera women (and men). It was complacency that let Trump slip past the gate in 2016; they were over confident that they had sufficiently neutered the voices of the Middle Working people of America, and elsewhere. If you are an American Working person, your attachment to those Industrial Revolution values of hard work, thrift, accountability, diligence, in tandem with your belief in the Bill of Rights, the rule of law, limited government, fundamental fairness, is at best quaint. More importantly this, coupled with your attachment to a national identity (borders), is an serious obstacle that stands in the way of the skimming class imposition of a top down supranational-government agencies and courts. “Der Regulierungsstaat Uber Alles”. The end game is to replace legislation with regulation by ideological “experts”, whose chief credentials are towing the line. Nepotism is a key component. The Biden crime family may have accepted foreign “pay to play” but that is just the tip of the iceberg, many of the Minions are on the take, in one way or another, by way of the revolving door between government agencies, media, private and public businesses, foundations, charities, lobbying, law and public relations firms, NGOs, universities……………including the Pentagon. I’m not even counting all the cost shifting scams.
      Be aware that there is a major realignment working its way through the system. The current public intellectual to make this case is Yuval Harari. I have not read his book, all I know about it comes from a half dozen lectures and interviews he has participated in on YouTube. My take is that it does not bode well for the people in the Middle, or their values, as their power and numbers decline due to contracting employment opportunities. This explains why the Dems had no reluctance to dump Labor, with the exception of public sector unions. The question is will American middle class values prove to be resilient or archaic in the post industrial economy.
      In support of my observation, consider the tsunami of hate that has occurred and will continue to occur toward Working America since President Zeros election, Slo Joe’s bilge, not withstanding. It has been a non stop barrage of derogatory insults, inflammatory accusations and demeaning ridicule. In the public space, there has been no push back at all, just avidness to jump on the bandwagon and reinforce the lies. The minions wouldn’t be doing that if the Normies had any clout. They work for the Man not you. Remember they were willing to crash the economy and do untolled damage to working America while many of their peeps were insulated from the consequences. They do not wish Middle America well, in any way.

      Just scratching the surface here. Something to consider:
      Contributions by employer:
      Biden has Apple, Amazon, Google, Facebook, Harvard, Johns Hopkins University, Intel, Comcast, Verizon, US Department of Defense, JP Morgan, Salesforce, Oracle, Wells Fargo, Deloitte, US Government, MIT, Yale, Law Firms, Starbucks, University of California, Nike, Microsoft, Ernst & Young, Veterans Affairs, At&T, Ford, Mayo Clinic, Target, Disney, Medtronic, Delta Airlines, IBM, Bank of America, NYU, CUNY, HCA Healthcare, etc etc etc

      Trump has the NYPD and the United States Marine Corp.

      Contributions by profession:
      Biden has CEOs, lawyers, bankers, finance professionals, managers, professors, human resources employees, consultants, editors, producers, scientists, teachers, doctors, accountants, engineers, therapists, social workers, nurses, sales professionals, fundraising professionals, psychologists, etc etc etc

      Trump has HVAC professionals, truckers, drivers, construction workers, homemakers, business owners, mechanics, plumbers, machinists, welders, ranchers, and manufacturing employees.

    9. Hui Says:

      Biden will never be installed as President. If they try to inaugurate him, he won’t live to see it. Neither will Kamala, or Pelosi.

      Thats what my magic 8 ball says.

    10. GEORGE TAYLOR Says:

      I didn’t read, and don’t consider myself bound by any contract of adhesion that you devise for playing in this verbal sandbox (or should we say “verbal s*itstorm”);
      we’ve fallen far from Jeffersonian prose as well as reasoning (“don’t ask me how I know”, indeed.)

    11. Exasperated Says:

      You’re not looking forward to the glory days of the expert? That’s what the 2020 election was all about.
      “Der Regulierungstaat Uber Alles”, is rule by unaccountable bureaucrats, in tandem with sciency experts, whose most noteworthy credential will be advancing and promoting the chump ideology du jour, by any underhanded, sleazy means, necessary. It’s no use talking to Biden voters, the consequences will go over their heads. Even if they understood that it is antithetical to American values or even practical common sense, most would not object. Elections have consequences, so anticipate that what they can f’up they will f’up, to the detriment of Working America and as long they are not impacted or can avoid the blowback. I repeat that the Dems don’t wish working America well in anyway, at all.

    12. Jaynie Says:

      Great post. Would that there were something, anything, that we can do. I am not seeing a way clear to any action plan.

      Dr. Shiva, an activist and mathematician, has a fantastic detailed video of data analysis about the election fraud – https://youtu.be/Ztu5Y5obWPk

      I haven’t had the chance to look at it yet, but he has another video on that channel, discussing the theme here, what is to be done?

      Yes, Trump surprised the deep state in 2016. Perhaps there existed some animosity between deep state individuals and HRC that helped. But, sadly, we were so naive this year. They spent the 2016 campaign laughing at and ridiculing our candidate, who went on to victory. So what do we do this year? Why we spend the entire campaign laughing at and mocking their candidates. Very bad, I couldn’t believe it, very, very bad. One of our large voices tried to urge us not to get cocky, but to little avail. It was just too fun.

      But the swamp was busy and that surprise wasn’t going to be repeated. Four years ago, on the rachel madow show, sen schumer, smiling greasily and knowingly over his asinine half glasses, announced the birth of the plan to steal this election. He said, no, he warned, then President Elect Trump that the deep state, er, no, the intelligence community has six ways from Sunday to get back at you. (Easily found on youtube).

      And so while we laughed at JB, the swamp was putting the final touches on the plan and selecting operatives to get active at the precinct level in the urban areas of battleground states. And even some overlap. Virginia looks like part of it, at least on election night it had that same pattern. The entire state was going for Trump, then at the very last minute, and not too terribly unbelievably, Fairfax county reported in with an adequate number of votes to take the state for JB.

      The deep staters had four years to plan this. The fielding of two absurd candidates who both ridiculously underperformed in the primaries. Hand selected to maximize the humiliation of losing to them. Candidates who went on to mount a vanishingly tiny campaign. And finally, the very in-you-face nature of the cheating. Put these together and the package seems to me to be a very serviceable one of the six ways from Sunday, doesn’t it you?

      The fact that the left has made the steal so achingly obvious is probably a feature and not a bug.

      What is to be done? Would that our side had anything to help President Trump, an apparatus to plan a long slow revenge and execute it with a vengeance, or the very corrupt moral fiber that undergirds the violent black bloc matters and antfas to stage a swift and violent destruction. If we have anything like that, I am not able to see it. May the good Lord help us. Go Trump. To paraphrase Abe Lincoln, we cannot spare this man, he fights! I do not care how much cultural discord and rioting it engenders, I pray that this glorious … man … takes it all the way through the SCOTUS to victory.

    13. Helian Says:

      An election with far more opportunity for fraud than ever before in a country with an abundant history of election fraud, especially by big city machines, and the media parrots are all shrieking “most fair, fraud-free election ever,” as if they’d never heard of Ed “Boss” Crump, James Michael Curley, Tammany, or “Hizzonor da Mare” Daley. Lately they’ve been trotting out every leftist stooge they can lay their hands on, from Obama on down, to assure us that the election was perfectly immaculate. Go figure (it shouldn’t take too long).

    14. Exasperated Says:

      Yes, Minister

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIYfiRyPi3o&feature=emb_title

    15. Exasperated Says:

      “Yes, Minister” almost seems benign compared to 2020.

    16. Mike K Says:

      The history of 2020 vote fraud begins here.

      Even though McConnell has no intention of taking up the bill, he has spent a lot of time on the Senate floor in recent weeks railing against the bill as a massive Democratic takeover of state elections laws and an attempt to suppress free speech. Many have pointed to the fact that the ACLU opposes portions of the bill, warning that they unconstitutionally impinge on Americans’ free speech rights by forcing more disclosure of donors by special interest groups. Others have objected to the public financing program for elections which Republicans warn could cost the government billions.

      It isn’t law but it was the blueprint. The account here is nonsense, of course. CBS.

      Wikipedia was slightly more honest.

      The bill was viewed as a comprehensive statement of the priorities of the Democratic House majority elected in 2018. The New York Times called the bill “the Democrats’ signature piece of legislation.”[9] Mitch McConnell, the Republican Senate Majority Leader, pledged that the bill was “not going to go anywhere in the Senate.” In March 2019, McConnell said he would not put the bill to a vote on the Senate floor.[11] Sarbanes, the legislation’s drafter, argued that the bill’s public popularity would ultimately lead to its passage.[12]

    17. Brian Says:

      Xennady, et al: Yes, I know. It’s clear to those who read the right blogs that the bad guys were first using the NSA to spy on Trump, then when Mike Rogers cut them off they switched to the FISA process. Rogers warned Trump what was going on after the election. And it’s clear that Barr knows the bad guys were doing bad things. Unfortunately both Rogers and Barr clearly think it’s better to have a corruptible (and corrupted) NSA and other surveillance apparatus than not to have one at all. Which is crazy, but if you think that, then you darn well better use that wonderful tool to stop brazen election theft, or else the entire system is going to get burned down.

    18. Exasperated Says:

      If true, what Trump was up against. Hell, what we are all up against:
      Must be safe to admit to lying now.

      Outgoing Syria Envoy Admits Hiding US Troop Numbers; Praises Trump’s Mideast Record
      ‘We were always playing shell games,’ says Amb. Jim Jeffrey, who also gives advice to President-elect Biden.

      https://www.defenseone.com/threats/2020/11/outgoing-syria-envoy-admits-hiding-us-troop-numbers-praises-trumps-mideast-record/170012/

    19. Anonymous Says:

      John Brennan is pretty creepy too.

    20. Anonymous Says:

      Do you ever feel like a frog in a warm pan of water wondering why you are on the top of the stove? If yes, then you understand why our peril is so great and why counter action is so unlikely. When a few escape the boiling, it is likely too little too late. The rest of the center are just enjoying the swim. Nothing to see here, close your eyes.

      My guess is that the new heights of election corruption in the blue cities are being massively enabled by the imbedded army of government and leftist NGO’s funded community organizers. Want to be a Republican poll watcher in the urban districts? There are positions open.

      Death6

    21. Lewin Wickes Says:

      Most of the Democrats, progressives, liberals, etc., with whom I am acquainted are persons who like to think of themselves as “the resistance”. They are smug, condescending, self-satisfied, and oblivious. They are now on the same side as “The Corporations”, Wall Street, the FBI, private equity, the CIA, the hated establishment, the Washington elite, the crony capitalists, and just about everything else they have claimed to detest for ages. Among them are women who donned pussy hats and marched in DC., and now they have all voted to install another rapist in the Whitehouse, the second in 24 years. (By ’96 we all knew Bill Clinton was criminal scum.) They have morphed into the establishment and they don’t even know it, while the conservatives whom heretofore they regarded as part of the establishment are in fact the only real resistance. Astonishing. It’s their snotty, self-righteous, unshakable assumption of moral superiority that makes the gulf all but unbridgeable. There will be no reconciliation. Impossible.

    22. Francis W. Porretto Says:

      The Democrats have been pursuing Secretary of State positions and Attorney-General positions electorally, and have been packing Boards of Elections and their hired workers as well. This is clearly in keeping with Stalin’s dictum about “who counts the votes.” That will make it difficult — in the near term, at least — to counter left-wing cheating. All the levers of influence are in their hands. As for a long-term solution, I don’t expect to live to see one.

    23. Yeah Says:

      Ballot and voter fraud are treason. Each person involved has been part of a conspiracy to illegally seize control of the US government. That’s treason, which is a capital crime, possibly eligible for the death penalty. Until we start executing the people doing it, they will continue to do it.

    24. mrsizer Says:

      Biden will never be installed as President.

      Just to get it out of the way: Biden didn’t kill himself.

      Assuming he is (declared) the winner, I give it 50/50 odds he will take the oath, 50/50 odds he lasts a year, and 50/50 odds that he lasts two years. That’s a 1 in 8 chance of him being president for two years, let alone four.

    25. Tatyana Says:

      Have you seen this?
      If this is not treason, I don’t know what is.
      How many in the military are on his side?

    26. Mike K Says:

      When Michael Anton wrote his book, “The Stakes,” I saw one reader complain that it was all about California. I assume he never got further in the book. California is our future with Democrats running things. The two Georgia Senate seats may save us from the worst but the left is planning to spend billions and is encouraging fraud.

      Maybe more GOP seats in the House will help but this election was the big test for vote fraud, which had test runs in 2018. Look at California to see what happens to the GOP in a Democrat future. For example, I’ll bet that lots of “gig workers” voted for Democrats. After all, they are low paid and may have student loans to pay. Profile of a Democrat voter. And yet they never anticipated AB 5, the ban on gig workers. It was written and passed to support unions, which run California now.

    27. PenGun Says:

      Madness. It seems to be a fact that if you can’t cheat, then the law needs to be rewritten so you can. Its the American way.

      Anyway I suspect the way you elect your Presidents, with a ballot that also contains a kitchen sink of other stuff, is a big part of the problem. Your computer votes are really suspect as well.

      In Canada we count every vote by hand on the day. We have scrutineers from all parties involved, at each polling place where the votes are counted. As we are just voting for a party in our elections, we have one box to tick. As we do this at each polling place it scales effortlessly. Its pretty well impossible to cheat and we get our results right away. Nah … too simple. ;)

    28. Robert Prost Says:

      To Xennady,

      Your point about revolutions take time to brew is correct.
      Two bits of history support your idea:
      1. The Nullification Crisis of 1828 in South Carolina foreshadowed the Civil War by 31 years.
      2. The Stamp Act of 1765 predated the first shot of the Revolution by a full decade.
      Genuine, shooting revolutions take a long time to move from outrage to lead downrange. They come, but it’s very hard to predict when that interim time is over. With the vastly increased velocity of information in modern society, that interim time is likely to be much shorter.

    29. Some something Says:

      Could the legislatures of Trump-won red states try to lead by example and pass a generically worded resolution like:

      “Due to the nationwide concert about overwhelming fraud, this legislature is exercising its Constitutional authority to directly select a slate of electors.”

      This would not change the electoral votes of a state that Trump already won, but if a cascade of identical resolutions like this could help motivate the legislatures of critical swing states to do the same.

    30. Xennady Says:

      One of our large voices tried to urge us not to get cocky, but to little avail.

      I’d just like to point out that our side did in fact win the election. We had the better candidates and we got more votes- so many more that in areas that the demonrats either didn’t bother to crank up the fraud machine or didn’t think they needed to the swing to Trump was astonishing. Specifically, I’m thinking of the bolderlands of Texas, where Trump actually won at least one county and in others the vote went from Clinton +30 in 2016 to Biden +5 now. Absent massive and I suspect unprecedented vote fraud the election would have been an absolute blowout for Trump and the GOP, giving the party complete control of the government.

      I’ll say it again- things work until they don’t. I think the left has been “winning” elections via fraud for decades, on a scale much larger than most people suspect. Their problem is that they’ve now done it in such a clumsy and obvious way, against an opponent that won’t simply roll over like Romney, that they’ve broken the tool. Never again will they be able to commit fraud quietly, without questions being asked, and without their opponents making an issue about it. Every Republican candidate in the future is going to make note of the fraud problem, whether they want to or not, because their voters are going to want to hear what the candidate will do to fight it.

      That’s something new, and I think not to the benefit of the left.

    31. Mike K Says:

      Some Something Says:
      November 13th, 2020 at 2:01 pm
      Could the legislatures of Trump-won red states try to lead by example and pass a generically worded resolution like:

      “Due to the nationwide concert about overwhelming fraud, this legislature is exercising its Constitutional authority to directly select a slate of electors.”

      I think this could be the end game in PA and MI but the downside is serious risk to the GOP legislators who vote for this. There is already a PA Congresswoman who is requiring protection.

      The Lincoln Project idiots are doxxing lawyers who are working on the Trump lawsuits. How long do you think it would take for riots at state legislators’ homes?

      I think it is a serious solution but it requires guts from Republicans.

      Meanwhile ex-Speaker Ryan is telling Fox News to go left.

    32. Xennady Says:

      Genuine, shooting revolutions take a long time to move from outrage to lead downrange. They come, but it’s very hard to predict when that interim time is over.

      Yes.

      I was thinking of the Kansas-Nebraska Act, of I think 1854. That act ended the Missouri Compromise, and I’ve seen it written by someone smarter than me that this is really what set the country on the road to the civil war, because it upended longstanding policy in such a way that the North could not accept it.

      But facing irrelevance because the population growth of the North, which was giving that region both more congressman and more states, the South had no choice but to take desperate measures.

      Seem familiar?

      Let me put it this way- facing irrelevance because Donald Trump found a winning political formula, the long-ruling democrat party had no choice but to take desperate measures.

      In the end it didn’t work out well for the Antebellum South, and I doubt it will work out well for the demonrats today.

    33. Tom Holsinger Says:

      The Republic is already over.

      From the conclusion of Trent Telenko’s article here:
      https://chicagoboyz.net/archives/64287.html

      “But the problem will remain. This is the first national election involving massive nation-wide vote fraud by a major party. That means a nation-wide political conspiracy, and my Colorado friend’s experience indicates it has been building for years. How can America remain a democracy when a large portion of the country rejects the core American, and democratic, value of free and fair elections?”

      Machiavelli noted in his Discourses on Titus Livius that a successful democracy required “democratic virtue” from its population. America had that for 250 years, but no longer. Why that happened doesn’t matter anymore.

      2016 was the last sort-of honest presidential election. The Democrats won’t stop with this one. They’ll do it every time and expand upon it. And the foreign interests (economic as well as foreign governments) which paid for the massive fraud this time won’t stop either.

      The only way to get the Democrats and their foreign allies out of power now is with violent revolution. That will necessarily end in exile of millions, as that is the only way to prevent cycles of violence and civil wars.

    34. Xennady Says:

      That will necessarily end in exile…

      Exile? is there something here you don’t want to write down, or are you really just a crazy optimist?

      Remember, we’re dealing with communists. They’ve been caught fantasizing about murdering tens of millions of Americans to create their fantasyland, so personally I just don’t think “exile” will play any part in the show.

      Civil wars are bitter and nasty, and I’ll leave it there because it turns out there are certain things I don’t want to write.

    35. Gavin Longmuir Says:

      Robert Prost: “Genuine, shooting revolutions take a long time to move from outrage to lead downrange. They come, but it’s very hard to predict when that interim time is over. With the vastly increased velocity of information in modern society, that interim time is likely to be much shorter.”

      You are almost certainly right about the shorter time frame. The analogy which comes to my mind is Hitler sending his troops to re-militarize the Rhineland in 1936 in direct contravention of the Treaty of Versailles which ended WWI; and the Allied Best & Brightest shrugged and did nothing. WWII was still over 3 years in the future at that point, but the failure to deal with Hitler’s blatant act made war inevitable. 3 years rather than the 31 years for the Nullification Crisis. If Beijing Biden becomes president by fraud, we are similarly on the path to something very much worse.

      One of the particular weaknesses of Far Lefties is they always assume a static world — they don’t realize that people react to changes. Doubling the tax rate will not yield double the revenue, because taxpayers alter their behavior. Steal an election, and citizens will change their behavior — in ways that may be hard to predict.

      Even without a Fraudster In Chief, the US was already on a very rocky path. No country can run a huge Budget Deficit and a crushing Trade Deficit for ever. Painful corrections are unavoidable. Yet Slow Joe & the Ho have no answers to these existential issues. Everything they have talked about will make those problems worse rather than better.

      It is a bitter consolation, but if the Democrat Establishment succeed in stealing this election, they will almost certainly learn the meaning of the term “Pyrrhic Victory”. On the other hand, the Democrats’ backers in the Chinese Communist Party will congratulate themselves on a job well done.

    36. dirtyjobsguy Says:

      This is where skills as a politician are important even if you are not a career politician. A good staff can help a candidate pick up large numbers of voters who are not necessarily for the other guy but not sure about your guy.

      Trump didn’t understand this or refused to understand it. Twitter was not the place to make these arguments. He attempted to outbid democrats in subsidies and handouts. You can’t win like this. I’m convinced from listening to my more liberal relatives, that a little less name-calling by Trump would have paid huge benefits. Trashing popular republicans like Sessions, Flake and McCain hurt him more than he would admit. A good commander or leader knows this intuitively. Loyalty is earned and is a two-way street.

    37. Mike K Says:

      Flake was popular? His polling showed that he could not win a primary.

      McCain had a kind of machine set up in AZ and several politicians, including Martha McSally and Ducey the Governor, were indebted to him. McCain was a nasty vindictive man. I know people who had experiences with him.

      “A good staff” was denied Trump from the beginning. The Establishment wormed their way in and sequentially betrayed his trust. He tried with Rex Tillerson, a businessman like him, but that didn’t work.

    38. Subotai Bahadur Says:

      We are already two or more nations in one set of borders. They are hostile and on the edge of war if not at war already.

      No matter who wins the facade of an election open war is inevitable. If Trump wins, the Left will expand their revolt until a response becomes mandatory. If the Left wins, the oppression they will try to impose will trigger resistance.

      And despite the long lead times mentioned, political matters both move faster now than in the 1770’s and the 1860’s, and the differences between sides are far more stark.

      At any moment, a triggering event could occur that will lead to irrevocable violence.

      Subotai Bahadur

    39. Exasperated Says:

      Outgoing Syria Envoy Admits Hiding US Troop Numbers; Praises Trump’s Mideast Record
      ‘We were always playing shell games,’ says Amb. Jim Jeffrey, who also gives advice to President-elect Biden.

      The fact that the bureaucrats are openly acknowledging that they intentionally lied to Trump and conspired to conceal the truth from him tells me two things. 1) They believe it’s over for Trump and that they have succeeded in checkmating him. 2) Trump was right to be paranoid and rely on his family. He was surrounded by people that were lying, sabotaging him, undermining his policies, and leaking true and false information about him. I’m wondering if these are the same weasels and liars that gave us Bush’s wars. Yes, I’m suggesting that they would do this to any Republican president, but Trump, being the bull in the china shop was especially targeted. I don’t know what drives these people or who they really work for. They do seem to have some sort of pathological hero complex. I think Edward T Hall who analyzed the nature of “the bureaucracy” way underestimated their malignance.

      https://www.defenseone.com/threats/2020/11/outgoing-syria-envoy-admits-hiding-us-troop-numbers-praises-trumps-mideast-record/170012/

      The following is a copied comment from the website, MaggiesFarmanotherdotcom:
      Yes Minister: Sir Humphrey is right. It is not his job to decide on the issues – that is why we have elections. Having worked for the federal government for decades, I can tell you that most bureaucrats have for a long time believed themselves to be in possession of knowledge and professional expertise greatly in excess of that possessed by their alleged masters who have suffered the electoral process, much less the idiot voters who ignorantly placed them there. There is no feedback – there is no payback for slagging the policy of a new administration – they will be gone in a few years and you will still be there. Having been instructed in the best universities that their expertise is neverfailing, they continue to do what they think is best. If they fail, oh well.
      #6 fiona

    40. Anonymous Says:

      Distressing as the election fraud is, lest we forget, millions of people voted for a walking Corpse. That says it all.

    41. Xennady Says:

      Surely you jest.

      This is where skills as a politician are important even if you are not a career politician.

      You seem to imply here that Trump lacked political skill. I dispute this, along with Hillary Clinton and the entire 2016 GOP field of candidates.

      A good staff can help a candidate pick up large numbers of voters who are not necessarily for the other guy but not sure about your guy.

      You mean like how Trump picked up a large number of voters this time?

      Trump didn’t understand this or refused to understand it.

      I’m pretty sure Trump understands pretty well the need for a good and loyal staff, which is why he fired so many who were neither.

      Twitter was not the place to make these arguments.

      No, twitter was exactly the place make arguments, because it bypassed the Trump-hating media and allowed him to take his message straight to the voters.

      He attempted to outbid democrats in subsidies and handouts.

      Such as?

      You can’t win like this.

      He did win like this, absent massive and obvious vote fraud.

      I’m convinced from listening to my more liberal relatives…

      Are you serious? Do you really think your liberal relatives have the interests of Donald Trump or the GOP at heart? Really?

      …that a little less name-calling by Trump would have paid huge benefits.

      Meanwhile, no accusation against Trump or his supporters is too vile, crazy, or asinine for the left and the nevertrump gop fringe to repeat, loudly and unceasingly. But Trump is the problem, of course.

      Trashing popular republicans like Sessions, Flake and McCain hurt him more than he would admit.

      I bet it hurt Trump not at all. Sessions was a miserable failure at the DOJ, then lost a primary. As Mike K points out, Flake couldn’t have won a primary either. And McCain was a democrat who lacked the honesty to simply switch parties, even though he hated the conservative base of the GOP.

      A good commander or leader knows this intuitively. Loyalty is earned and is a two-way street.

      Is this a joke? Or Sarcasm? I have to be missing something.

      The treatment Trump has received has been disgraceful. There’s been a long list of subordinates who have flat out betrayed him and refused to follow his lawful orders because they thought they knew better. Right above this comment is one example, of the outgoing Syria envoy who lied about the number of troops in that country because he didn’t like the policy the president preferred. Rex Tillerson is another example, as is Jim Mattis.

      Somehow that two-way loyalty street only means that Trump should put up with endless insubordination from his subordinates, because otherwise he is betraying them. It doesn’t matter what the American people want or don’t want- in this example, troops in Syria- because the bureaucrats know best.

      I’ve had enough of this shinola. The gop has been very adept at looking out for the interests of their donor class while ignoring the interests of the mass of people who still show up to vote for the party. Those people have figured all that out, which how the gop ended up with Trump in the first place. Lectures now about OrangeManBad aren’t going to solve that problem.

    42. Exasperated Says:

      Wow, Xennady, well said.

    43. FromtheAlthouseblog Says:

      FWIW, I agree that the term, socialism, doesn’t really capture the current Dem agenda/ideology.

      Lurker21 said…
      I saw the New Statesman list of best book of the year recommendations. Plenty about race and the legacy of imperialism, about Trump and Putin, also something about pandemics, the environment, and Brexit. Not much about socialism, which is surprising in a magazine that started out, in essence, as an organ of Britain’s socialist Fabian Society.

      Socialism – the working class, public ownership of the means of production, even decreasing income inequality – this doesn’t look like the focus of today’s left. Whatever the Left’s agenda is, it is more post-socialism than socialism. It seems like it’s more about a privileged class enjoying its privileges and claiming power in the name of its own idea of the common good than anything else. There’s much emphasis on the bad old racist and imperialists, and this allows one to feel comfortable with one’s own advantages because one is leading the way in kicking down old barriers and sweeping away old prejudices.

      One contributor expressed great enthusiasm for Germany, ostensibly because it’s embraced liberal democracy, but more likely because it hasn’t, preferring instead to vest power in elites and bureaucracies and keep the populace far from the levers of power (the book he recommended is John Kampfner’s Why the Germans Do It Better: Notes from a Grown-Up Country). But among the recommended books is also The Tyranny of Merit by Michael J Sandel, which could be a critique of what I’ve been describing above.

    44. Exasperated Says:

      Maybe, it’s just the greeedheads, megalomaniacs opportunists, sycophants….
      shedding the veneer that they had any respect or use for limited government, the Bill of Rights, American values, or a national identity.

    45. Mike K Says:

      Trump’s fundamental problem was that he is one man. He probably thought there was a coterie of loyal Americans who would be willing to represent the voters, especially the middle class who had been unrepresented for years. Ever since the Democrats abandoned them for the money of Silicon Valley.

      He was wrong. There are no patriots in DC. They are all out for themselves, money or power and mostly both. They are the uniparty of Codevilla.

      As over-leveraged investment houses began to fail in September 2008, the leaders of the Republican and Democratic parties, of major corporations, and opinion leaders stretching from the National Review magazine (and the Wall Street Journal) on the right to the Nation magazine on the left, agreed that spending some $700 billion to buy the investors’ “toxic assets” was the only alternative to the U.S. economy’s “systemic collapse.” In this, President George W. Bush and his would-be Republican successor John McCain agreed with the Democratic candidate, Barack Obama. Many, if not most, people around them also agreed upon the eventual commitment of some 10 trillion nonexistent dollars in ways unprecedented in America. They explained neither the difference between the assets’ nominal and real values, nor precisely why letting the market find the latter would collapse America. The public objected immediately, by margins of three or four to one.

      To no avail.

    46. David Foster Says:

      FromtheAlthouseBlog: “Why the Germans Do It Better: Notes from a Grown-Up Country”

      The subtitle says a lot about the author’s attitudes.

    47. miguel cervantes Says:

      so the atlantic council which was partnered with dominion, telegraphed this five years ago, mark malloch brown who handled vargas llosas outsider campaign, think of him like the andean ted cruz learned to count the vote, to determine the outcome,

      trump expanded his reach among latinos and african americans, we are told that he lost working class whites but that seems dubious, but we are most assuredly in the ‘Endgame’ btw the way scyti which seems to be the location where dominion was hiding their servers, was secured by a consortium of banks that included deutsch bank and banco santander, talk about the blind leading the blind,

    48. miguel cervantes Says:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trk_gJx5yH8

    49. Tatyana Says:

      David: compare with Ann Coulter, who called Trump “eight y.o.”. And who hates J. Kushner to the point of actual libel.
      https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/11/13/ann-coulter-what-america-wants-is-trumpism-without-trump/

    50. JefftheBobcat Says:

      It was never about socialism.

      It’s always been about aristocracy and oligarchy.

      It’s about power, money and privilege. See George Soros for an example.

    51. miguel cervantes Says:

      well the nomenklatura, the new class as djilas called it, now he’d call them oligarchs are the new feudalism,

    52. Mike K Says:

      It’s about power, money and privilege. See George Soros for an example.

      And Soros went about it the right way,. He stacked minor state office like Secretary of State and DA with far leftists. The Democrat SoS in AZ called Trump supporters “neo Nazis,” and AZ is supposed to be a red state. Or was.

    53. Exasperated Says:

      It’s Hi-Tech feudalism.

    54. Anonymous Says:

      Who will be the Emperor? Chairman Xi?

    55. Anonymous Says:

      Hi-Tech Feudalism.
      Buhbye Middle Class Working person

    56. MCS Says:

      Pengun’s point way up there about ballot complexity has some merit. I notice that my voter registration card puts me in eight distinct districts as well as implicitly in two others: Texas and U.S. citizen. All of the eight hold elections for various things at various times that only sometimes align with either national elections in even years or state elections in odd years. Previously, you would be handed a number of ballots to be deposited into different ballot boxes after passing the initial screening to account for the fact that none of the districts lined up with any of the others. Now the tendency seems to be to print a ballot on demand, customized to the individual voter. The scanner is programmed to keep it all straight.

      With computers ubiquitous, it is conceptually simple. I spent a couple of hours yesterday with my boss, lamenting the torturous path that a simple concept takes to actually producing reliable results in the real world. I know with perfect certainty that many of the commenters could regale us with endless examples of their own, of blind alleys and misconceptions that caused delays or even complete abortions of the process of taking a “simple concept” and making it work. Most of us do not have to account for deliberate fraud either.

      Then there’s the fact that printing a ballot “just for me”, totally destroys the concept of a secret ballot. The least it does is locate me geographically among a small number of voters and probably makes it traceable to me directly.

      Pengun’s example is compromised by the facts that Canada has far less than 10% of our population, has a completely different form of national government and this exemplary process has landed them with one of the most blatantly corrupt Premierships in my memory.

      His example of the process of counting is more or less identical to what the process is supposed to be here. I’m no more willing to admit the laws of human nature end at the Canadian border than the laws of gravity. I would be infinitely surprised if the the actual honesty of the counting wasn’t subject to the same variations in Canada as to the south.

      What the 2000 Florida debacle demonstrated wasn’t so much a broken system as one that had a margin of error. All real systems have one, the question is whether it is acceptable and how it may be decreased. From memory, the Florida system margin was about 1%. Considering the number of moving parts in a system that size, it’s actually fairly good. The places that decide such close races with a coin toss are acknowledging that when the margin is that small, the real winner is not determinable and the apparent winner is a matter of chance.

      Computers, in theory, are capable of counting any conceivable number of votes perfectly. It’s a simple concept. As the caption says; “hilarity ensues.”. I’m sure there must have been a few people besides the people selling the first touch screen voter terminals and the politicians that bought them that were surprised at how that turned out, I wasn’t one of them.

      None of this considers fraud. A realist has to acknowledge that it will forever be a race between the crooks and the rest. I don’t remember anyone specifically recommending that blockchain will solve all of our problems probably only because I have a hard time remembering nonsense. Certainly something that has enabled financial fraud and theft somewhere in the high billions is just the thing to add needed transparency and accountability to the electoral process. Another simple concept that as many as a few dozen people might really understand.

      My own preference is for human readable, machine scannable, manually marked ballots. They seem most compatible with ballot security procedures that have been worked out over decades and leave a simple paper trail to follow up on. They aren’t perfect but nothing will ever be and I’m sure there are people working hard to subvert them in ways I can’t imagine. It still seems a system more resilient and accommodating to human error. An occasional race will come down to a few ballots marked by people that somehow couldn’t do even something that simple right, that’s what coin tosses are for. Perfect is the enemy of good enough.

      It seems it is all down to the lawyers and courts. The present government can’t function without the compliance of the overwhelming majority of the citizens. Whether some sort of police state could compel that compliance or not, I don’t think there is a way to bridge the interval between. Far too many guns and and too much ammunition in circulation to start. Even in a less kinetic context, as many as 2% of taxpayers actively subverting the system has rendered IRS enforcement a matter of chance.

    57. miguel cervantes Says:

      the problem is they made a system, which is totally unverifiable, unaccountable, this was the end goal

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiKShOGba94

    58. buddhaha Says:

      This is an analysis of the KY Governor’s race, with the obvious analogy to Nov 4th.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ficae6x1Q5A

      It explains all of the insecurities within the “just growed” vote counting system(s) in use today, and demonstrates, using a recording of CNN’s coverage of the Kentucky race, a real time instance of vote switching.

      Spread this to your friends. The MSM mantra, “No evidence of widespread fraud” needs pushback.

      The electoral system is a disaster. The election was stolen, and Epstein didn’t kill himself.

    59. spingerah Says:

      it’s the calm before the storm, I will not be a subject.

    60. PenGun Says:

      “Pengun’s example is compromised by the facts that Canada has far less than 10% of our population, has a completely different form of national government and this exemplary process has landed them with one of the most blatantly corrupt Premierships in my memory.”

      You missed the part about scales effortlessly, and I did point out we elected a party, requiring one box to tick.

      Now I’m not sure who you are talking about. A premiership would be our recently elected provincial government where Horgan of the NDP put the Liberal party out to pasture (not to be confused with the national liberal party, as its really social credit, a seriously right wing party, reborn) after running a coalition government for some time. Now he has a solid majority, largely because of his handling of the Covid19 pandemic.

      I suspect it Pierre’s son you dislike, Justin our Prime Minister, who is a disappointment to many of us, but the alternative is worse.

    61. Mike K Says:

      Two of Trump’s law firms conducting the legal challenges have now withdrawn due to leftist threats. If Trump was really a Nazi, I’m sure they would be OK with it.

      The fix is even getting stronger. Putin would be proud of the Democrats.

    62. MCS Says:

      Panic, cut and run might turn out to be a better name for a rock band than a law firm. Future clients should make note.

    63. Brian Says:

      Like I said the day after the election, it’s over, they stole it fair and square, and if the GA GOP doesn’t wake up they’re going to steal the Senate as well.
      It is disheartening, but it’s the reality we’re in now.

    64. Mike K Says:

      if the GA GOP doesn’t wake up they’re going to steal the Senate as well.

      I understand that the GA Governor, Kemp is a NeverTrumper and it has been alleged that he might not be too upset about the Senate loss. Loeffler is not the sharpest tool in the shed and her main chance is the black clone of Rev Wright who is running against her. He is anti-Semetic in spades (pardon me).

    65. Brian Says:

      The GOPe would rather lose the Senate so they can blame Trump for costing them Congress and the White House. They’re going to try to crush the Trump movement same as they crushed the Tea Party. All they care about is lining their own pockets. They’re corrupt trash. I don’t think they’ll be able to control what’s waking up now though…

    66. Christopher B Says:

      PenGun – You missed the part about scales effortlessly, and I did point out we elected a party, requiring one box to tick.

      And you quite obviously missed the implication of the U.S and Canada have completely different systems of government.

      We are not a parliamentary system with an unelected head of state. We vote separately for the legislative and executive offices, in case you hadn’t noticed. Moving to a single party vote would not only require a complete rewrite of our national Constitution but also of the fifty state constitutions, as well as a fundamental reorganization of our political parties.

      And it still wouldn’t protect us from dolts like your Prime Minister Zoolander.

    67. Brian Says:

      Notice who is speaking out against the antifa violence against the rally yesterday–the Trumps and very few others. It’s like the GOPe wants it to be a Trump party. They’re suicidally clueless.

    68. MCS Says:

      The Whigs were replaced by the Republicans in a veritable eye blink when information moved at the pace of a horse drawn coach.

    69. PenGun Says:

      “And you quite obviously missed the implication of the U.S and Canada have completely different systems of government.”

      I dunno … reading? Part of the point of pointing out that your system was overly complicated, was comparing it to our simple system of electing a party, which only has one box to tick. That allows our hand counts to be fast and accurate.

    70. MCS Says:

      Almost as simple and accurate as if there was only one party. Making it easier to count the ballots isn’t the goal.

    71. PenGun Says:

      “Making it easier to count the ballots isn’t the goal.” What is the goal then?

    72. MCS Says:

      You’re right, what could possibly more important then that the ballots are easy to count? The actual government matters not at all.

    73. Brian Says:

      Well, of course the ballots should be easy to count, and easy to verify, but that’s a means to an end, not a goal. Without universal confidence that elections are legit, the system collapses.
      I’m pretty confident that Trump woke up a beast that can’t be put back down, no matter how much the establishment wants to. They stole this one fair and square, but there’s no going back to the days of the Bushes, Romneys, et al. The MSM is unrecognizable at this point, in the past week they’ve become like something out of Communist China, far more overtly than even before the election, but it won’t matter, I don’t believe, in the long run.

    74. PenGun Says:

      “You’re right, what could possibly more important then that the ballots are easy to count? The actual government matters not at all.”

      Umm carts, horses? I was only trying to point out that your complicated and multi method method, is much easier to cheat with, than our boring simple and completely hand counted method. I said nothing about politics.

    75. Xennady Says:

      It’s like the GOPe wants it to be a Trump party.

      It already is, whether the gopes like it or not.

      I suspect the number of people willing to vote for the establishment’s globalist America-last agenda is roughly the same number of people willing to vote for Yeb! Bush. That might be a lot of folks but it isn’t nearly enough to win an election and I have absolutely no doubt that the voters who went GOP this election for the first time wouldn’t have shown up for it.

      And if Trump’s about the only Republican speaking out about antifa, I’m not surprised.

      When has the GOP bothered to care about the internal affairs of the United States, except when someone proposes raising taxes on the rich? I still remember years ago, when the party won control of both the senate and the house, that the absolute top priority was repealing the inheritance tax.

      Trump needs to set up his own organization outside of the RNC and, essentially, start his own party. He could endorse the candidates he liked and sink the ones he didn’t.

      Watching the gop squeal about it would be the best part.

    76. Xennady Says:

      That allows our hand counts to be fast and accurate.

      They may be fast, but how exactly do you know they’re accurate? Because the people counting the votes tell you they are? Because the CBC says so?

      If the vote went against the left, do you think the leftist-run CBC would tell you? Or would they cover up the subsequent fraud, to keep their paychecks coming?

      I suspect they’d cover it up and never say a word- and you’d never know or apparently, suspect.

      I think this is how you ended up with Prime Minsister Zoolander, world renowned idiot.

    77. Gavin Longmuir Says:

      Xennady: “Trump needs to set up his own organization outside of the RNC and, essentially, start his own party.”

      My heart says — Yes! Let’s do it. The Whigs disappeared. Within the last decade, the Scottish National Party completely wiped out the previously dominant Labour Party in Scotland. So replacement of the Swamp Republicrats with something better is clearly possible.

      My head says — If Beijing Biden pulls off the theft of this election, with the full support of the entire Democrat Establishment along with the support of the Democrats 0.001% super-wealthy, there will never be another honest election in the US. Trump could start a new party, win all the votes, and the Democrat vote counters would simply fudge the numbers.

    78. MCS Says:

      What is the difference in the cost of manufacturing a vote through fraud instead of capturing it via persuasion? One tenth, a hundredth … more? The whole point of this thread is that the country won’t survive long when the government is determined by which side is most efficient at cheating. Especially when one side can’t pour piss out of a boot with the directions printed on the heel.

      How do we know that any of the elections in our lives have been honest? I think most people assumed that fraud, widespread enough to change a national election would be too obvious to ignore. If this was ever true, it isn’t now.

      Is it even plausible that a system can be built that reduces fraud to a tolerable level given the incentives? How much is a poll watcher worth? There seems to be an unlimited amount of money available to “influence” elections, is it that surprising that the emphasis has gone from retail to wholesale?

      If we can’t build a system that assures reasonably fair elections, where does that leave us?

    79. Brian Says:

      Nah, no need for a new Trump party. The GOP is ours.

    80. PenGun Says:

      “They may be fast, but how exactly do you know they’re accurate?”

      Each polling place is its own deal. The various parties involved have scrutineers that watch the count as it is done, right after the polls close. In my district we have about 120.000 people and 20 polling places, so each one will have about 6000 odd possible voters. Say we get 70%, we have 4000 votes to count. That won’t take long and the scrutineers are easily able to watch the whole thing.

      It ain’t perfect, but its really hard to cheat.

    81. MCS Says:

      And what do you think they do here, ninny. It’s the exact same process. It’s all the layers between there and the eventual certification where the shenanigans take place. Unless there’s nothing worth stealing in Canada, the same happens there as well.

      Go away and stop bothering the adults, it’ll all be clear when you grow up.

    82. Mike K Says:

      My head says — If Beijing Biden pulls off the theft of this election, with the full support of the entire Democrat Establishment along with the support of the Democrats 0.001% super-wealthy, there will never be another honest election in the US. Trump could start a new party, win all the votes, and the Democrat vote counters would simply fudge the numbers.

      I agree. Furthermore, I expect that future elections will all be mail-in. Wholesale fraud is much simpler than the retail version like Lyndon Johnson used in 1948.

    83. Brian Says:

      LOL. You guys are assuming way too much competence in the Democrats. They’re not some sort of supervillains. It should be eminently possible to stop.

    84. OBloodyHell Says:

      You may appreciate these, Sarge:

      THE 2020 ELECTION: FUCKERY IS AFOOT
      https://monsterhunternation.com/2020/11/05/the-2020-election-fuckery-is-afoot/

      ELECTION 2020: THE MORE FUCKERY UPDATE
      https://monsterhunternation.com/2020/11/09/election-2020-the-more-fuckery-update/

      I ASKED ONE SIMPLE QUESTION TO PEOPLE WHO WORK WITH FRAUD
      https://monsterhunternation.com/2020/11/12/i-asked-one-simple-question-to-people-who-work-with-fraud/

      You may appreciate that last in particular. He collects a list of opinions about the footbound fuckery.

    85. OBloodyHell Says:

      It ain’t perfect, but its really hard to cheat.

      Well, until you throw the observers out, THEN suddenly count up 40k “pro-Biden” votes without any for Trump.

      Yeeeeah, sure. Because THAT kind of voter results happens outside of third-world dictatorial “elections”.

      Hey, I hear Jimmah Cahtuh is going to go in and “certify the elections” in Georgia. The state, not the nation.

      Q.E.D. — Now we ALL know the election is totally rigged…

    86. Brian Says:

      So I have a problem making sense of all the fraud claims–I see some talk about hacked machines, but what does that mean? Does it mean that they improperly tabulated the ballots, and a recheck would prove that? Or that they made up / changed votes that were machine only, so short of showing the hack it’s unprovable at this point? Any real solid demonstration of any of this?

    87. Xennady Says:

      Any real solid demonstration of any of this?

      Check the links from OBloodyHell. They go to Larry Correia’s site, who is not only a fine fiction writer but is also a former auditor as well.

      Nah, no need for a new Trump party. The GOP is ours.

      Almost, but the party leadership needs to go. That’s why I want Trump to start his own organization, with his own fundraising independent of the RNC. That is, so he can better force out the backstabbing fools presently in charge. I have an unpleasant suspicion that the setup now- where Trump has a joint fundraising operation with the RNC- means that money donated by people who support him and not necessarily the GOP is simply pilfered by the party and wasted on the usual type of fail. I hope I’m wrong but I don’t trust the Geee Oh Peeee at all.

      It should be eminently possible to stop.

      It would be, if the GOPe actually wanted to stop it.

    88. FromtheAlthouseblog Says:

      I think we have seen more election fraud in 2020, and that it was better organized and financed, than we have ever seen before.
      Brian, maybe this will help. Draw your own conclusions.

      More on Sydney Powell, not saying she will win the day. This is better sourced from the Althouse blog.
      FWIW:

      Kyzer SoSay said…
      I remain confident that Trump will win the day. Sidney Powell completely turned the Flynn case on it’s head and gave him the best shot for vindication he ever had, and in fact has vindicated him – partisan judicial moves aside.

      Her interview with Maria Bartiromo was something. She’s given other solid interviews lately as well.

      The Left continues to mischaracterize the issue, for obvious reasons. This isn’t necessarily widespread voter fraud – it looks like was highly targeted on 6 or 7 key states/cities/exurban “collar county” type areas. However, the SCALE of it – in terms of absolute vote counts – is large. So it’s a lot of fraud, but it’s concentrated. It had to be because there are only certain places where Dems or RINOs in key positions could help provide cover. Trump outperformed himself in almost every area of the country compared to 2016. And remember, in 2016 there was probably much less fraud overall, and likely targeted on state and local elections rather than national ones, because EVERYONE thought Hillary was a lock thanks to nobody looking at the polls through the right lens (and many of those being malarkey to begin with). When my wife and I voted on Election Day in 2016, I told her I gave Trump a 40% chance. Her reply was, “Why so high?” I told her that I believed he’d crushed the enthusiasm gap and that enough people despised Hillary to take a chance on The Donald, but even I thought it was less likely (I actually sorta thought we might see a 269-All tie and that it would come down to some major drama in Congress).

      That’s why Hillary almost didn’t concede that night, why Podesta came out at the Javits Center in her place to keep the party faithful holding on. Aside from Hillary probably being drunk as a skunk, they were back in the campaign room waiting for their blue-city machines to report back on whether they could pull off an 11th hour ballot-fest. I think the answer the Clinton campaign got back was “we maybe can, but it’s going to be super risky and we’re not sure we can make up the deficit everywhere you need without it being too obvious.” At that point, the game was up, and immediate planning to “fix” their oversight in 2020 commenced.

      And we see what happened.

      Sidney Powell and others may flip this yet. I think there has been enough proven issues (dead voters confirmed to have voted, CoA voters confirmed to have voted in incorrect states, #maidengate proving that multiple female voters cast ballots under maiden names, and the shady shit with Scytl and Dominion) to turn the tide. But the courts need to be honest and take a clear eyed look at how everything stacks up together.

    89. Anonymous Says:

      Oops, Brian I forgot this: I don’t know, I’m leery of Gateway Pundit. The following was posted on Small Dead Animals.
      Quicksilver
      November 16, 2020 at 2:45 am
      Sidney Powell Drops a BOMB on Sunday Morning Futures
      “t’s really an insidious, corrupt system and I can’t tell you how livid I am at our government for not paying attention to complaints, even brought by Democrats… No one in our government has paid any attention to it which makes me wonder if the CIA has used it for its own benefit in different places. And why Gina Haspel is still there in the CIA is beyond my comprehension. She should be fired immediately.”

      https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/11/sidney-powell-drops-bomb-sunday-morning-futures-cia-may-used-dominion-benefit-gina-haspel-fired-immediately-video/

      Here is Sidney Powell and Eric Bolling getting into some more detail on the “ghost in the machine” fraud.
      Sidney Powell “They can watch the voting real time. They can run a computer algorithm on it as needed to either flip votes, take votes out or alter the votes to make a candidate win… It’s massive criminal voter fraud, writ large across at least 29 states… It’s obvious the algorithm and the statistics that our experts are tracking out are batches of votes and when the votes changed. It’s going to blow the mind of everyone in this country when we can get it all together and can explain it with the affidavits and the experts that have come forward. ”

      https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/11/massive-criminal-voter-fraud-going-blow-mind-everyone-country-sidney-powell-dominion-systems-video/

    90. Brian Says:

      The problem is there is so many different claims of the sorts of fraud, from good old fashioned stuffing the boxes with dead people, to fake registrations (all the 120 year olds were obviously just entries with no birth dates, defaulting to 1/1/1900), to hacking of various forms. Some people claim that the problem was in the few big cities in the key states, some that it was in the suburbs in those areas, etc., that I can’t make sense of what I’m actually supposed to think. There needs to be some coherent laying out of some actual evidence, on the level of legal filings, etc., and time is quickly running out.

    91. Exasperated Says:

      I don’t know, Brian. I suspect election fraud is messy and chaotic, at best. It can be consistent or sporadic. The motivation may vary from individual to individual, location to location. It may or may not be coordinated. It can occur on many levels: individual , local, systemic. Sydney Powell seems to be saying the greater part of the damage was systemic and electronic. No doubt, it would take some sort of savant to pull together the different threads of evidence to make a coherent case. Further, I would guess that to have any hope of success, the WH would have had to anticipate the electronic manipulation and been able to collect evidence in real time, in order to present a timely case. Did Team Trump have anyone that prescient?
      Will there be a smoking gun? How would you feel if his case relies on just a preponderance of the evidence? I don’t know how Trump prevails with all the forces arrayed against him. It sure would be great if he succeeds in presenting his case to the courts or the state legislatures. It would be better for Working America, if he does.

    92. Brian Says:

      Well, what’s the goal? I think most of here accept there was dirty business going on, but I thought the goal was to prove that in order to have the legitimate winner of the election remain in office.

      “Did Team Trump have anyone that prescient?”
      If not, then he’s too stupid to be president anymore. He was spied on by the NSA and FBI as a candidate, spied on as president elect, had his NSA pick slandered, forced out, nearly jailed (he never should have fired Flynn, that was a disastrous mistake), had the DOJ seized by hostile forces to investigate him for more than half of his administration, hamstringing him in so many ways, had a BS impeachment launched in order to discredit any sort of investigation into corruption by the previous administration, etc., and if no one thought that, gee, maybe they will try to cheat in the election, then to heck with him and let’s find someone with the same worldview and enough brains to recognize what’s going on.

    93. miguel cervantes Says:

      he had the commission on voter integrity headed by kobach, where they not only refused to cooperate but demanded the data be destroyed. there’s a 2014 columbus press piece (I know consider the source) about the flaws in scyti’s software that enabled fraud,

    94. Exasperated Says:

      C’mon Man.
      I have speculated that Team Trump knew they had to exceed the margin of fraud and that they thought they had, as of Nov 2nd. Obviously something is amiss given that Red prevailed at the state and local level. That should tell you something.

    95. Gringo Says:

      There are links between Dominion and Smartmatic, the company that supplied Chavista Venezuela with voting systems and hardware, but they are from years ago. Dominion purchased Sequoia Voting Systems in 2010. Smartmatic purchased Sequoia Voting Systems in 2005. Sequoia incorporated Smartmatic technology into its voting machines. In 2007 the Treasury Department’s Committee on Foreign Investment in the United State ordered Smartmatic to divest itself of Sequoia. Smartmatic sold Sequoia to managers with US citizenship.

      Does Dominion still use Smartmatic legacy hardware or software? Don’t know.

      Currently, Smartmatic has sold voting technology to Los Angeles County.That appears to be the only current direct Smartmatic-US voting systems connection.

      Smartmatic issued a statement in August 2017 regarding fraud in the recent Constituent Assembly “elections.” Smartmatic Statement on the recent Constituent Assembly Election in Venezuela. According to Smartmatic, there were at least a million fraudulent votes. It didn’t blame Smartmatic software or hardware for the fraud, but on the lack of opposition overseers. The opposition had boycotted the “election,” because the Constituent Assembly was replacing the National Assembly(US Congress ) elected in December 2015 with 2/3 opposition members.

      United Kingdom, London – August 2, 2017 – Smartmatic has provided election technology and support services in Venezuela since 2004. Even in moments of deep political conflict and division we have been satisfied that the voting process and the count has been completely accurate. It is, therefore, with the deepest regret that we have to report that the turnout figures on Sunday, 30 July, for the Constituent Assembly in Venezuela were tampered with.

      The automated election system used in Venezuela is tamper evident and self-reports any attempt to interfere with it. This means that the system is designed to protect the votes from any manipulation and to immediately identify and alert of such an attempt. This security feature is achieved by combining a series of auditing mechanisms, intrinsic to the system, that are impossible to circumvent.

      Smartmatic has stood behind all the results of the elections held in Venezuela from 2004 to 2015, regardless of what political party won….
      Furthermore, the total sum of all election returns must coincide with the final results published by the National Elections Council. This auditing mechanism allows all parties involved to prevent any type of manipulation in the transmission, tallying and publication of election night reports. This protocol has been followed in all Venezuelan elections since 2004, except for the election last Sunday, because the opposition didn’t participate.
      An audit would allow everyone to know the exact participation. We estimate the difference between the actual participation and the one announced by authorities is at least one million votes. It is important to point out that this would not have occurred if the auditors of all political parties had been present at the different stages of the election.

      Regarding lack of fraud in previous Venezuelan elections, Devil’s Excrement assembled a number of statistical studies of the 2004 Recall Referendum that pointed to fraud. As I believe that 3 links hold up a comment being published, I’ll not include a link.

    96. Anonymous Says:

      There is also a connection between Smartmatic and the Biden Transition Team.

      Peter Neffenger

      In November 2020, Neffenger was named a volunteer member of the Joe Biden presidential transition Agency Review Team to support transition efforts related to the Department of Homeland Security.[10]

      Neffinger is Chairman of the Board of Directors of Smartmatic, a multinational company that specializes in building and implementing electronic voting systems.[11]

      I checked the Wkipedia links, and got confirmation of their accuracy.

      What I found interesting is the that Biden Transition Team site made no reference to Neffinger’s connection to Smartmatic. AGENCY REVIEW TEAMS:Meet the Biden-Harris agency review teams

      Biden-Harris Transition Agency Review Teams
      Peter Neffenger Self-employed Volunteer

      Why is the Biden team trying to hide the Neffinger-Smartmatic connection?

    97. Gringo Says:

      I am responsible for the last Anonymous comment.

    98. Gavin Longmuir Says:

      Brian: “… to heck with him and let’s find someone with the same worldview and enough brains to recognize what’s going on.”

      Good luck with that. The US has been very fortunate to have had a number of non-politicians try to make a difference with our dysfunctional political system. For his selfless efforts, Ross Perot was mocked & lambasted by the legacy media. President Trump similarly was attacked, but did better, overcoming the legacy media’s opposition. However, once in office, he then found that the entire DC Establishment (DC votes 95% Democrat) was working full time to undermine everything he tried to do.

      The Democrat Establishment are the fascist super-rich and super-rich wannabes, shamelessly dividing the American people against each other. They control the bureaucracy, the media, Big Tech, Big Business, almost all the legal “profession”, and much of the Courts. They are currently demonstrating they can steal a Presidential Election in broad daylight.

      Face it, the only way the Swamp can be drained is for the whole system first to collapse, just as the Soviet system did 30 years ago after the Soviets had ignored their own impossible financial situation and had promoted old infirm guys (analogous to Hillary! and Beijing Biden) to the top slots. That collapse is coming; it is inevitable. No man on a white horse is going to ride in and save us from what is coming. We need to think about how to rebuild after the dust settles.

    99. Christopher B Says:

      Exasperated November 16th, 2020 at 11:52 am

      I’ve thought the same thing. IIRC Ace at AoSHQ had a long post based on a communication from the Trump campaign on 2 November where they analyzed the early vote, the 2016 vote, and their expected Election Day turnout, and thought they had the bases covered. Using actual voting data and not polling data should have priced in the necessary ‘margin of fraud’.

    100. Gringo Says:

      From Devil’s Excrement on 2004 Recall Referendum fraud. 2004 Recall Referendum Statistical Studies.

      Perhaps not relevant to the current discussion, but I couldn’t resist.2012:Jimmy Carter: Get Lost, Stop Meddling In Venezuela!

    101. Exasperated Says:

      If you are interested you can follow up and listen to or watch Viva Frei. At the very least, you will have a more nuanced and educated view. My take away is there were long established effective protocols, in place, to secure the vote. These protocols were often disregarded. There are constitutional remedies for a disputed election.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPNhiTExv1Q

    102. PenGun Says:

      “Go away and stop bothering the adults, it’ll all be clear when you grow up.” I’ll be dead long before that happens. We count everything by hand, not like your country which has as many methods as there are states.

      You are fighting a culture war, which is hilarious all by its self, and you are losing. ;)

      Its starting to become obvious that no serious normal person will enter politics as its a cesspool. Who other than serious narcissists, could put up with the excrement thrown at everyone who disagrees. The result is that stupid people abound in politics now. Just looking at Britain and its conservative government, so many of its members do not understand what’s happening, and make that clear on a regular basis. US politics is so bad that stupidity is almost a requirement at this point. The reason things are going so badly, is at least partly because of sheer stupidity.

    103. Brian Says:

      Well since it looks like the steal is going to be successful, they obviously weren’t outside the margin of fraud, were they? So, yeah, I’m a bit ticked off at them, because so much was at stake.

    104. Xennady Says:

      I’d just to point out- again- that Trump and his party did in fact win the election absent vast fraud.

      That matters.

      If your opponents can simply cheat, then it doesn’t matter how good your message is, how many of your supporters you turn out, and how many new people you win over.

      It’s made worse when some significant but unknown fraction of your own party establishment is on the other side and prefers you lose, to the extent that it will deliberately sabotage organs it controls, such as Fox News.

      This is the run up to a hot civil war, awaiting only a triggering event, as Subotai B. notes above, and it’s only a matter of time before it begins.

    105. Brian Says:

      “I’d just to point out- again- that Trump and his party did in fact win the election absent vast fraud.”
      Yeah, well that and $5 is about to get us a cup of coffee plus mass amnesty of 10+M illegals, plus whatever else Chuck and Nancy want.

    106. Xennady Says:

      Yeah, well that and $5 is about to get us a cup of coffee plus mass amnesty of 10+M illegals, plus whatever else Chuck and Nancy want.

      I disagree.

      I’d say the loss of political legitimacy is rather important. A key reason why people do what the government tells them to do is because they believe that the government has earned that right via the political process. It matters when people stop believing that. That’s why the left and its pet gop establishment are working so hard to prevent the public from finding out about what they did. I just don’t think this will work. Paul Ryan and friends were willing to use Fox News to push the lie- but already the result has been that the audience left Fox and started watching Newsmax TV.

      Whatever else Chuck and Nancy want, I doubt it will be popular, certainly among Trump supporters. I expect eventually, perhaps very quickly, Chuck, Nancy, and Kamala will issue decrees that will not be obeyed, which will lead to them to use force against resisters, which will then result in more resistance, etc, etc.

      That’s the next civil war right there. Enough rambling.

    107. Gringo Says:

      Xennady:
      Whatever else Chuck and Nancy want, I doubt it will be popular, certainly among Trump supporters. I expect eventually, perhaps very quickly, Chuck, Nancy, and Kamala will issue decrees that will not be obeyed, which will lead to them to use force against resisters, which will then result in more resistance, etc, etc.

      Recall that a common tactic against Trump’s Executive Orders/decrees was to have some obviously Democrat-leaning judge to issue a ruling against a Trump Executive Order. Guess what? Two can play that game. Look for Republican-leaning judges to rule against Biden executive orders.

      Unfortunately, neither judges nor the Senate can do much against a Biden-Harris administration undoing Trump’s Iran policy.

    108. Subotai Bahadur Says:

      Gringo Says:
      November 17th, 2020 at 12:28 pm

      Just curious, but on what basis do you expect an illegitimate government installed by blatant fraud to obey or acknowledge any restrictive court orders?

      This fight is for all the marbles, forever.

      Subotai Bahadur

    109. Gringo Says:

      Subotai, point taken.

    110. JAL Says:

      So, we sit here posting entries and comments, keeping the powder dry and waiting for them to come looking for us. Hate to admit it but it looks like it was over a long time ago.

    111. Xennady Says:

      Hate to admit it but it looks like it was over a long time ago.

      Disagree. This is an iterative process that has been going on decades.

      It began when the demonrat party was overwhelmingly dominant politically and the gop had no real ability to do anything about it. That’s a very important aspect of this story- the slow motion collapse of the
      democrat party and its ability to rule the United States. It has been forced to commit various ruinous political acts because otherwise it’s simply gone.

      I say ruinous political acts because each measure they take to keep their grip on power in the now makes power harder retain during the next act. And it makes the behavior of their political opposition less and less acceptable to that opposition’s mass of supporters.

      The GOP ended up with Trump as president because of this dynamic. The party establishment hated him, but the base was fed up with the continual, miserable failure of the gop to deal with the lawlessness and betrayal of the country by the demonrats. For example, I’d suggest that Jeb Bush would have been a perfectly acceptable Republican nominee circa 1996 or 2000- but not in 2016.

      The end result of the left obviously stealing the election this time, assuming they succeed, won’t be to give them the power to cheat their way to victory every time by rewriting election law- it will be to make elections meaningless, because their opponents won’t accept the result.

      The same holds for judicial decisions. Since everyone knows full well the left uses judicial decisions to block political actions they don’t like, I suggest eventually they will simply be ignored by the right. The left already ignores judicial decisions if it doesn’t like them, as well as written law and the Bill of Rights, and people have noticed.

      So no, it isn’t over. It takes time to turn mere political disagreements into enough hostility to cause violence- but the left has been working a good long time at it, and in the end, you reap what you sow.

    112. Jonathan Says:

      The end result of the left obviously stealing the election this time, assuming they succeed, won’t be to give them the power to cheat their way to victory every time by rewriting election law- it will be to make elections meaningless, because their opponents won’t accept the result.
       
      The same holds for judicial decisions. Since everyone knows full well the left uses judicial decisions to block political actions they don’t like, I suggest eventually they will simply be ignored by the right. The left already ignores judicial decisions if it doesn’t like them, as well as written law and the Bill of Rights, and people have noticed.

      The system has become unstable in that action by either side tends to exacerbate rather than buffer swings in mass behavior away from the normal politics of the recent past. The heightened social and political volatility of 2016-2020 seems likely to continue if not accelerate regardless who wins the presidential election.

    113. Mike K Says:

      Here is a pretty good account of the Dominion story at Unz Review.

      Like many corporations, Dominion purchased influence in congress. Bloomberg reported in April of last year that Dominion hired lobbying firm, Brownstein Farber Hyatt & Schreck. House Speaker, Nancy Pelosi’s former chief of staff, Nadeam Elshami, is one of the lobbyists for that firm.

      At the state level, Dominion employs eight registered lobbyists in GA alone. They include Lewis Abit Massey, a former Democratic Georgia Secretary of State, and Jared Thomas, former chief of staff for Republican Governor Brian Kemp.

      Kemp is the NeverTrump governor who appointed big donor Loeffler to the Senate seat.

    114. Roy Kerns Says:

      As Sgt Mom might say, history has stories. In 1946, Athens, Tennessee, armed citizens revolted against a corrupt local government intent on accomplishing election fraud.

      Saw the story contained in the link below when a friend posted a synopsis.

      Unlike then, citizens today would not need to break into an armory for weapons.

      Also unlike then, today nearly half the citizens support the corruption.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Athens_(1946)

    115. Brian Says:

      It’s all so odd. Biden ran a non-campaign, and now “he” is running a non-transition. Where are the press conferences with potential cabinet members, etc? We know the answer, it’s that he’s incapable of doing it, but it’s going to look so odd to history that this decrepit near corpse was covered for by his party and the media for so long.

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