So, looking at the actions of pro-Hamas demonstrators on university campuses and in the streets of major blue-tinged cities over the last few weeks, we really don’t have to ask as Dorothy Thompson did, in mid-1941 who goes Nazi? College students suckled on the sour teat of DIE-addled academicians with delusions of intellectual grandeur, for a certainty, and recent immigrants who have brought their unfortunate old habits of hate with them. Still, when it comes to that first group, it has been amazing and disheartening to observe that sheltered twentysomethings driven to hair-trigger meltdown by the alleged presence of misogyny, the faintest hint of racism, and microaggressions so tiny as to be invisible to the naked eye have enthusiastically aligned themselves with genocidal Jew haters from Gaza. Students and academics didn’t even pause for a split second, before cheering on indiscriminate random slaughter, torture, repeated rape so violent that it left pelvic bones broken, burning families alive in their own homes, looting and hostage-taking.
While those educated in the most prestigious universities and colleges in our fair nation may not grasp the obvious double-standard, a fair number of the rest of us see it all very plainly. Indiscriminate and brutal slaughter of civilians by armed bullies is bad, m’kay? The Geneva Convention, that much-violated set of rules governing the conduct of war operations, frowns on it, for all that only a few nations conducting warfare lately have ever observed them. I am also certain that I am not the only one of the post-WWII generation who had those few brave individuals who sheltered European Jews, or helped them escape from the Nazis’ “Final Solution” held up to me as the epitome of moral courage in a dark time.
So, it emerges that has been considerable blow-back to the poisonous Jew-hate on display after the October 7th Pogrom students and individual bigots being doxed, fired, or having offers of post-graduate employment rescinded, counter-protests in front of their houses, anonymous death threats (so alleged), and the threat of an internet mob harassing them. My heart bleeds for them… well, no, it doesn’t. Not a bit of it all this has been established as the accepted treatment for conservatives, or the unwary innocent caught by the progressive cancel culture mob. Let it all unfold in the manner established by the progressive mob.
Discuss as you will, and while we can.
Sarge, as I have been saying for a while; we are several totally separate cultures, societies, Social Contracts, and indeed nations within the factually non-existent boundaries of the former United States. Right now, it looks more and more that reconciliation is impossible, and it is likely that the former political system is becoming moot along with the rule of law. This is not what I want, nor do I see this as being in any way desirable. But pragmatism and realism are a better approach than fantasy.
Subotai Bahadur
Indeed, SB – indeed.
Speaking of pragmatism, it looks like more and more ordinary citizens are coming to the conclusion that there is nothing to be gained in paying an inordinate amount of money for college tuition, and a piece of paper which is increasingly useless when it comes to earning a living.
I loved that “Who Goes Nazi?” article from years ago, and remember it being surprising when I first saw it. Her breakdown was not what I expected, but it seemed likely. It is rather like the Pew research that comes out every few years about the real American tribes and how they align in terms of voting. As soon as you read it you nod your head, saying “Yes, that makes sense,” but you didn’t necessarily see it before then.
Supporting the “most persecuted, most underdog” groups is movable and uncertain, because it is based on fashion, not intellectual consistency. The Mean Girls quietly change what colors and leggings are in, because their status depends on them paying obsessive attention while other girls are being distracted by having a life of some sort. A similar example are the people who chastise you for not keeping up on what gender they are and how that should be experienced, because the point is not their gender, but you paying attention to them.
Perhaps proper crimestop requires a great deal of training, and the academy is a good place to practice?
To be fair, most of the news has been around a handful of institutions. At UW there’ve been pro-Israel gatherings as well as pro-Hamas. I have no insight into what the average student thinks–probably what the media tell him.
It isn’t only hatred of Jews that’s now on open display.
I happened to see on reddit today an account from an Israeli describing their experiences. Someone they knew was killed, and other bad things happened. It may or not even be real, but that isn’t why I’m writing this comment.
Immediately after that account was a response from the usual sort attacking that Israeli as a “settler” deserving death and (paraphrasing) stating that all the “settlers” in the US also need to die.
That is, all the white people of America- that is, “settlers”- deserve death. Just like Israelis.
I paused after writing the above to ponder just what was actually said in that reddit comment. But I concluded that it doesn’t matter much, because I know what these folks really want- genocide for both the Jews of Israel and the “white” people of America.
As Col. Schlichter says, they hate us and want us dead.
We should notice this and react accordingly.
Straining gnats out of the camel soup, huh?
I agree with Xennady’s comment in the previous thread:
Nobody has a monopoly on tactics. Successful tactics get copied. Now the Left is armed, and the Right doxes and cancels.
If you are a middle-class non-self-employed American in 2023, especially if you are still in school or beginning your career, getting canceled for political extremism that the majority finds repugnant can be worse for your life prospects than getting beaten or shot.
There are so few real anti-black racists and white supremacists in modern American society that the Left has to manufacture them by lying about mainstream conservatives. But the Right can find in the American Left and its “allies” a target-rich environment of anti-white/Asian racists, genocidal Jew-haters, advocates for pedophilia and the sexual mutilation of children, etc.
Predictions are a fool’s game but the timeline of the past 10+ years is:
Tea Party >> Trump >> ??
This trend doesn’t favor the Left. OTOH most people who are not on the Left still don’t know what’s going on. Interesting times.
I was going to put this comment in the previous thread regarding “There’s this “we” again/” I would like to think, perhaps I’m wrong, that no matter where on the Resistance spectrum you are, from Alinsky-style tactics, to 5th generation, to just going toe-to-toe with the F-15s and nukes. We’re on the same side. I would also argue that we have the same problem. I’ll come to that in a moment.
As far as the correct tactics to use depends on what sort of time-line you are looking at. I love the guys who are doxxing but the question is how much time do we have? Everything I see points to the election next year. Read Michael Anton’s post “They Can’t Let Him Back In” ((https://compactmag.com/article/they-can-t-let-him-back-in) and then add all the moves since then including DoJ formally tagging MAGA as domestic terrorists. To keep it short they have a plan for before and after the election
So what’s the problem we need to solve? Look at what the Left is able to do, they can put the right people at the right place at the right time. Audrey Hale kills 6 Christians in a hate crime? Whistle up several hundred protesters in less than 48 hours who then storm the Tennessee state capitol and completely changes the narrative. .Virginia governor pushes parent notification rules regarding gender notification in schools? Get thousands of students to walk-out in protest creating a counter-narrative (https://www.nbc12.com/2022/09/27/thousands-virginia-students-participate-walkouts-protest-transgender-policy-proposal/) We have see how pro-Hamas/Nazi/genocide protests have come together and that is merely the starter package.
And us? Is there any more precious topic than gun rights and the prospect of the government taking them away? So the other month when the NM governor suspended gun carry laws, an act her office was unconstitutional, what happened? One small protest in Albuquerque of maybe 150 people. Really?
The problem? Organization that leads to effective collective action The Left has been doing this well, since the early 1900s through labor organizing and have built a dense network of funding, non-profit groups, and people on the ground. We have what?
So you say that’s okay, protesting and organizing is for hippies and green-haired alphabet people, we are serious folks have guns. First of all keep in mind that these networks that the Left has built dual-purpose, they can and will be flipped to violent action. Don’t think civil war or revolution,t hat’s happening now, think in terms of a coup. Second they take time to build and we have nothing like them and it’s not something you can develop on the fly when everything hits the fan, by then it’s too late, things are just moving too fast. If we don’t have the organizational know-how to build a protest for something in Albq. what do you think is going to happen next year when it really counts? You cannot run until you can walk
Look at what the Left is doing, look what we failed to do in Albq, and decide what we can do to fix the problems for next year when we need to mobilize and execute very quickly. Get to know the people in your area and start building connections and relationships and then connect with our groups doing the same thing. Any good political organizer knows their community and we should the same. Think of it is a much sophisticated version of a phone tree, something that can be activated and effectively directed no matter the context.
Time is running short and don’t underestimate the intelligence or sophistication of our enemies
Audrey Hale kills 6 Christians in a hate crime? Whistle up several hundred protesters in less than 48 hours who then storm the Tennessee state capitol and completely changes the narrative.
So where’s that manifesto Hale wrote? I note the Gee Ohhh Peeee runs the Tennessee state government, thus there is no excuse for not letting us see it.
But no, because the GOP is the party of why nothing can be done, what the left doesn’t want exposed stays hidden.
The so-called right works hard to keep its supporters enthusiasm damped down while the left is continually striving to whip its ignorant supporters into a frenzy over made-up nonsense.
Hence we haven’t seen the manifesto. My take is that it would anger conservatives- thus causing enthusiasm to fight against the left- and expose what Hale believed as insane- thus causing people to back away from the left. Hence the proverbial crickets.
Repeat this sort of things a few thousand times, and here we are. There isn’t any mass organization on the so-called right because the GOP doesn’t want it to happen. I expect the party rightly fears they’d quickly lose control of it and find a target on their backs, but whatevs.
And if you want to build a mass movement on the right outside of the gop, expect the both wings of the uniparty to come after you with everything they have.
You’ve noticed how Donald Trump is being treated, haven’t you?
Of course you have.
It still all goes back to Angelo Codevilla and his original essay, “The Ruling Class.” Politicians get rich in DC by selling influence and both parties do it. Maybe Republicans sell influence less likely to harm America but I am not ready to accept this as true without evidence.
It would be great if conservatives organized themselves as well at the local/activist/cadre level as leftists do, but they don’t. We could use a few conservative billionaires to bankroll fake-grassroots conservative organizations, but this doesn’t happen. The people who run the Republican Party should be straightforwardly conservative, un-corrupt, and politically competent, but they are not. Yes, time is running short, and we shouldn’t give up the fight, but the damage was done years ago in our schools and in Congress. We are left with the hope that the mass of badly educated, politically apathetic American voters wakes up in time to block the completion of the leftist project before it’s too late.
London, 2021:
https://twitter.com/MsMelChen/status/1718418870598238418
There is one organization on the right that engages in a form of direct collective action, Moms for Liberty, which works ta the grassroots level to stem the tide of Wokeism in public schools. I hadn’t paid much attention to it until Billboard Chris started sharing some street time with them and spoke at their national conference a few months ago in Philadelphia. I noticed at the time quite a number of workshops on the program that were geared toward providing assistance to others who wanted to establish local chapters. As far as funding? Looks like dark money. An organization to keep an eye on
One other aspect about public collective actions, they do act as a communal experience, I remembered from back during COVID a friend remarking on the fact that you could attend a BLM protest, but not go to a church service, that protest actions can be characterized as “the Left at prayer.” People attending these protests not only get a jolt through the direct action they are performing, but leave energized to take on the world and further the cause. Perhaps it’s that aspect which limits the Right’s ability to organize the same way the Left does, we have better ways to fill our lives while the Left has nothing else to assuage their personal angst
That does provide another dimension to what the Deep State did on Jan. 6. It was not only done to intimidate people from supporting Trump and questioning elections, but it badly damaged the ability of Trump supporters to collectively come together. Think of how that day started, tens of thousands of people on the Ellipse came to DC, and look how it ended. The next time one of those people will think of joining a protest rally, they will think of the odds of them being hunted down and arrested. Just as important, because of the presence of agent provocateurs and federal agents in the crowd as well as informants in Oath Keepers and Proud Boys, people are going to be suspicious of anyone trying to recruit them to such actions.
A quick note, I was reading mews about the big pro-Hamas rally in Brooklyn yesterday and noted something peculiar. The main organization backing the rally was the pro-Palestinian group “Within Our Lifetime” which as you can draw from the name has as its base the destruction of Israel; however, the media and especially the NY Times plays the group straight (https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/28/nyregion/palestine-protest-brooklyn-barclays-center-nyc.html). These are the same people who depict anything to the right of Mitt Romney as “Far-Right” or “Alt-Right” but a group that wants to wipe Israel off the map…. meh.
Mom,
I expect groups like Deacons for Defense and Justice will spontaneously form.
Much like the Crenshaw riots when Hispanics blocked off their streets with cars and armed guards to keep out rioters.
Quigley
Mr. Bahadur:
Please remember whenever you despair that the collectivist/statist/authoritarians who pretend to dominate the country are concentrated ONLY in, well, collectives. These are the double-handful of Dem-wing-run enclaves we refer to a “cities”. About the only product that these areas manufacture are votes, and vast systems for distributing the wealth created by others. A wonderful visual example is shown here:
https://vividmaps.com/trumpland-and-clinton-archipelago/
If the communists now running the left-wing of todays politics actually get what they are pushing for (pressing the normal’s into self-defense), I believe that the results will be hugely different than they anticipate. Rather than being able to use the military (in violation of the Constitution, but small legal trivialities like that won’t bother them) and probably half the police forces, they’ll be up against the area of the country that still believe in the principles of liberty and personal responsibility.
Should the so-called “red states” (as seen in the maps the overwhelming majority of the country excepting the enclaves) cease commerce with the inurbs, the cities will vanish in riots, looting, and arson as soon as the water and food run out. Just how much food and water do you think the average dazzling urbanite has stocked? Nothing inside the ring-roads that separate the inner cities from the 3rd-tier suburbs will survive.
And the rest of us could carry on without even noticing it, except that the parasite load has been removed from us. We could maybe even re-instate the original constitution with only the original 10 amendments in order to restore a federalist republic.
Israel lost the political left when it turned conservative (relatively) and began to prosper. It is now a tech powerhouse and is relatively rich. Arabs, and that is what Palestinians are, do not do well with economics. The Saudis and Qatar are located above rich mineral deposits that they had nothing to do with the origin of. Iraq has rich mineral deposits, as does Iran, and both are poor countries that spend their money on fascist ideology.
Israel was originally a Socialist country and was popular with the left. After the Six Day War, the politics of Israel shifted right and they became the bad guys to the international left.
I honestly don’t think push-back will be organized at much above a neighborhood level – too many opportunities for government “glowies” to slither in and do stuff to sabotage and open up innocent protesters for the treatment that the J6 protesters have gotten; years in jail, no bail, grinding prosecution. I think push-back will be more local, more organic, friends aiding friends … and yes, if it means getting up onto a rooftop, or barricading your neighborhood with cars and small arms, they’ll do it, especially in red states. It will be a leaderless, cell-based kind of resistance, plus a good dollup of sullen Irish democracy and obstructionism.
I guess The Beatles have some sort of “new” song out. Geeze, only half of them are still around to collect royalty checks. But the tragic plight of the Social Justice Warriors did put me into mind of an old song. Sorry if this mentions the wrong terrorist group but aren’t they all really just different flavors of evil?
“So when you singin’ the praises of Al Shabaab, I don’t wanna hear when you ain’t gonna get no job……”
Clarifying my previous comment: It’s the antiracist crowd who strain out gnats while swallowing camels.
Blackwing:
Back after the 2016 election, I mentioned those maps, and the visual impression they left, to a leftist acquaintance. His response was to say, about the Trump map, “Yes, but nobody lives there.” It didn’t seem to occur to him that approximately half the country lived there; they were all “nobody.”
This may look like antisemitism but it is more likely the result of years of indoctrination in the various critical theories. Israelis are viewed as “white” and are therefore “oppressors.” This means that all the intersectional “oppressed” groups can pile on. Among these demonstrators are Jews and LGBT. This could only mean that the oppression binary dominates.
Spiked has it right:
https://www.spiked-online.com/2023/10/28/the-dangers-of-decolonisation/?utm_source=spiked+long-reads&utm_campaign=043d17316a-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2023_10_29_10_31&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_-043d17316a-%5BLIST_EMAIL_ID%5D
” – who goes Nazi?”
Notice how simultaneously it was NOT asked “who goes Soviet?”
I am working over a college kid on Reddit right now. He uses “settler” and “neo-colonialism” and doesn’t consider the Jewish people indigenous to the area. It gives the game away that he is a poorly educated college kid. He can only argue with smart sounding words and talking points.
So I ask him, for which Israeli crime is rape, torture, and kidnapping an appropriate punishment? Then I inform him that every loss of freedom suffered by the Palestinians was preceded by a barbaric act of random terror and ask him, what would you do were this your neighborhood and you were the target? I told him what he would do…he would wall in his neighbors for not wearing covid masks or getting vaccinated.
For all their posturing as our moral superiors, they don’t seem to have much empathy or have any experience with hardship to help them understand the horror the Palestinians have inflicted on the Jews.
I think in America, the war on Christianity started with Roe v Wade and has become pervasive. Like Sgt Mom says, it is fashionable. Voting against your obvious self-interest and beliefs makes these college kids feel enlightened, smart and modern.
This college kid is equating crimes Christians committed 1000 years ago to the slaughter of October 7th. Implying, or hoping to, that all religion is bad but in this case, at least justice is being served.
Its the hopeless stupidity of the enlightened and righteous mind. And I think it has divided us in way that cannot be undone.
It’s tio late to work within the system. As already noted, any attempt to organize above the school board level will quickly be infiltrated by the feds. The FBI has already laid the legal and procedural groundwork by declaring normal, MAGA type Americans as internal security threats. Aided by cell phone tracing and geofencing, they’ll quickly identify and round up opposition. They will take you to court in a reliably lefty jurisdiction, and you’re toast.
The quaint notion that red area Americans will magically organize against the blue cities is a pipe dream. It takes organization and, more importantly, realistic training to pull that off.
I used to hold out hope that we could identify and fix the obvious election corruption, but too many Republican politicians leveraged that system to attain office, and they’re not motivated to help us fix things.
(see: Georgia).
Next year’s election will be a watershed. I expect a lot of violence in the run-up, mostly, if not all, committed on behalf of the Left. If election tampering is as obvious as it was last time, I expect breakup of the US. The Left is not leaving us any options.
Too much pressure is building, nationally and internationally. Something’s going to blow. We will experience “interesting times.”
In1974 Turkey invaded the nation of Cyprus, took over about a third of the country, drove 100,000 Cypriot citizens from their homes, built a fence across the country, and moved Turkish settlers into the conquered territory. Unlike Israel’s actions in the war of ’67, Turkey’s invasion was clearly unlawful, and the international community declared it to be so. I point this out because to this day I have never heard even the tiniest peep of moral indignation from those who routinely vilify Israelis for nonexistent crimes. Why? I think we all know why. Israel is the world’s only Jewish state.
Civilization.
It was nice while it lasted.
Blackwing1
October 29, 2023 at 1:56 pm
Sorry it took so long to get back to you. We got almost a foot of snow yesterday and I spent much of today shoveling out. If I make more typo errors than usual because of the exertion, please forgive me.
Now I have seen that and similar maps. They do show that the current collectivist dictators can be beaten. But them being beaten does not automatically mean a victory for [if the inflammatory term can be forgiven] the Patriot side. It is not a binary either/or scenario. There are multiple possible other outcomes, as many as there are competing groups/societies/nations/Social Contracts fighting it out in our country.
The good guys may not win. In fact the odds are historically against it. A societal collapse is the most likely outcome, enhanced by the detail that we have a large number of large groups of hostile foreign nationals present in the country with no loyalty to it or its people.
I am going to have to phrase this carefully, as I do not want to get too specific. But let us assume that order does begin to break down. We live in a complexly interdependent society and economy. Even those who live in “Trumpland” are dependent for survival on products and services produced in the “Clinton Archipelago”. And of course vice-versa. If order breaks down, not only will products and services not be produced and transported; the component parts necessary for the production process will not be produced or transported where needed.
And that is BEFORE any of the many hostile groups decide to aggravate things. I assume that you are familiar with the concept of “choke points”. Our country and economy is full of them, in all directions, and each subject to interference in numerous ways
Much of the unpleasantness is likely to take the form of a modern form of siege warfare, going both or many ways. Our population is large enough that it cannot exist without being supported by a complex infrastructure. If that fails, anywhere, the loss of life will be horrendous.
Going back to the original subject of Israel’s war for survival, immediately after the exchange of declarations of war [which does have a bearing on the events that will follow] Israel cut off shipments of food, water, and electricity to Gaza. Gaza is not anywhere near self sufficient in any of these. The very first act of our current regime was for Biden to go to Israel and force them to lift that blockade.
Israel furnishes 50% of Gaza’s electricity. There is an interesting bit of capitalism in that 25% of their electricity is produced by private persons with propane powered generators supplying neighborhoods. And HAMAS produces the last 25% the same way. Since Israel started the actual invasion, the propane supply has been cut off. Similar situations cover potable water and food.
There is a concept called the rule of 3’s. A person can live for 3 minutes without air, 3 days without water, and three days without food.
In Gaza, if we had not interfered it would have been ungovernable and undefendable by the time Israel moved in. Now consider what it would be like if events put us, all 335.6 million plus foreign invaders, at each others’ throats in a multifaceted civil unpleasantness in a similar position. The reasons for optimism are limited. YMMV
Subotai Bahadur
UPDATE to my post above. One of the possible triggers of the unpleasantness noted above may involve something I saw just after finishing said post.
https://www.battleswarmblog.com/?p=56280#comments
Short form, in California it is illegal for law abiding, properly licensed persons to carry arms in a synagogue. Of course, we know that HAMAS and their allies are scrupulous at obeying laws that place their enemies at a disadvantage.
Subotai Bahadur
@ SB > small edit to the typo in your comment: 3 weeks without food is the standard.
The really serious cut off is three days without chocolate, but that’s just me.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_of_threes_(survival)
Thanks to everyone for the discussion; sadly, we’re going to need more of them going forward.
As for “Who Goes Nazi?”
https://babylonbee.com/news/i-wouldnt-have-gone-along-with-the-nazis-in-1939-says-college-student-at-kill-the-jews-rally
Students of the Bible will see an apt parallel.
AesopFan:
Thanks. Three weeks is what I should have typed. I am sufficiently tired that my hands are shaking as I type.
Subotai Bahadur
I wonder if any of you have read Bill Quick’s novel, “Lightning Fall” about a collapse of society with a president like Hillary Clinton. I am reading it a few pages at a time.