Only a few years after 9/11, I visited an old industrial facility that had been restored to operating condition. One of the machines there is an attrition mill, which consists of two steel disks, rotating at high speed in opposite directions and crushing the substance to be milled between them. It struck me then that America…indeed, western civilization as a whole…is caught in a gigantic attrition mill, with one rotating disk being the Islamic Terrorist enemy and the other disk representing certain tendencies within our own societies…most notably, the focus on group identities, the growing hostility toward free speech, and the sharp decline of civilizational-self confidence. The combination of the upper and lower disks of the metaphorical Attrition Mill is far more dangerous than either by itself would be.
It is now increasingly clear how much the ‘woke’ American Left has in common, at a deep level, with movements such as the Taliban–the suppression of free expression, the insistence that all aspects of life be subjected to an over-arcing ideological or religious framework, the hostility toward history and historical objects (remember the Bamiyan Buddhas?).
I have seen numerous articles and blog posts from people who are generally Left or “liberal”, who now express concern about the excesses of the Left and who blame these excesses on a reaction to Trump. This is nonsense. For anyone who has been paying attention, the increasing irrationality, illiberalism (‘illiberalism’ in the older sense of the word ‘liberal’), and outright hysteria of the American Left has been clear for a long time before Trump ever came on the political scene.
Within days of the collapse of the Towers, the true face of the modern American Left made itself fully visible. “Progressive” demonstrators brought out the stilt-walkers, the Uncle Sam costumes, and the giant puppets of George Bush. They carried signs accusing America of planning “genocide” against the people of Afghanistan. Professors and journalists preached about the sins of Western civilization, asserting that we had brought it all on ourselves. A well-known writer wrote of her unease when her daughter chose to buy and display an American flag. Some universities and K-12 schools banned the display of American flags in dormitories, claiming that such display was “provocative.” There were preemptive scoldings of Americans for the ‘Islamophobia’ that we were expected to demonstrate toward Muslim neighbors.
Attitudes such as those outlined above are no longer a niche thing; they have gone pretty much completely mainstream. And we have a President the bizarreness of whose thought processes are illuminated by his proposal, immediately after 9/11 to send a check for $200 million to Iran with no strings attached.
And, while in 2001 the only serious external threat we needed to be concerned about was Islamic terrorism, today we need as well to be concerned about the pressures from China. And, here again, there are behavior patterns internal to America that mirror their reactions to the external threat from the terrorists…see for example my 2018 post, So, Really Want to Talk About Foreign Intervention? Just the other day, I saw a story about an American high school in Colorado which applied for some students to attend a meeting of a United Nations group (the Commission on the Status of Women). The UN committee that accredits such groups emailed the school and said there was a problem: the school’s website used ‘incorrect’ terminology for Taiwan. The committee suggested modifying it to “Taiwan, Province of China.” The school gave in to the request.
China has cited ‘improper’ Taiwan terminology to stall applications from at least six other groups, including the World Bicycle Industry Association and a French nature society called the Association of 3 Hedgehogs. The tentacles of the Chinese regime now extent to all locations in the world and to activities of all kinds. More here.
I can’t come up with a good visual metaphor for the three-way threat that now threatens America’s continuance as a free and independent society, but that threat is very real.
There are a few signs of hope. As noted above, some publications that have been aligned with the Establishment Left are now starting to push back somewhat against aggressive ‘wokeism’. The catastrophe of the Afghan withdrawal has educated some people, especially college-age people, about the fact that America is not the worst nation and the source of all evil in the world; that, indeed, hideous things can be perpetrated by people who are not Americans and also who are not considered White. The supply-chain chaos of the past year and a half has educated many businesses about the dangers of excessive dependency on China.
And, somewhat remarkably, since 9/11 there have been no large-scale terrorist attacks remotely comparable to that one in scale. Though how long this situation will persist, given the Taliban’s newly-established full control of Afghanistan, is an open question.
Things are not hopeless, but the hour is late and the situation is very serious.
Things started to turn, a little, when some of our elites realized what a con job the Confucius
Institutes were.
At my largish, Southern state school, I ran the special collections department of the library. Somewhere around 2005 or so I was informed that the CCP had generously donated a large quantity of materials to support the CI’s work. (I’ve shook hands with Xi. He spoke on our campus when he was still FM, about 2011 I think; he and his entourage had to admire the great view from our reading room, and be sure that the CI stuff was safe, so came by without warning. He’s taller and bulkier than most Chinese, as seen on TV.)
Because there was no other space, a portion of my stacks area was given over to the temporary staging of the stuff. It ranged from fairly basic math and science texts in English and Chinese, to a whole lot of kid’s language books and workbooks in multiple copies.
For reasons unknown to me the original plans were put on hold; every few months someone from the CI would come by and assure us that funds were on the way to hire a cataloger for the portion of the stuff that the library would keep. One Taiwanese national was actually interviewed for the job, but nothing came of it.
As I browsed through the stuff from time to time, it finally struck me that the Chinese Reds were quite crazy. They sent enough materials to introduce hundreds of young American kids to the glories of the Chinese language and script, at one mediocre u in a middling American city.
I really do think they imagined that they could start a process whereby the world, beginning with the USA, would transition away from our beautiful, useful, and most adaptable tongue, to start learning Mandarin. Their orders would need to be understood, after all.
I retired in mid-15; a couple of years ago the whole operation was shut down, without much having happened so far as I know.
“And, somewhat remarkably, since 9/11 there have been no large-scale terrorist attacks remotely comparable to that one in scale.”
There are many of us who do not believe 9/11 was what it was supposed to be, a foreign attack . That there have been no other attacks, supports this view.
yes the dar al harb (house of war archipelago) of militants has been given untold amounf of weapons, uniforms aircraft, back in 2000, there were maybe a half a dozen camps, like al faruq, at herat, kandahar, khowst, now it was king saud that set up on the camps ostensibly under the saudi high commission, it’s his son, prince salman who has tried to make amends, but he’s surrounded by the barzinis (al thanis) tattaglias, (sepah) et al and all their retainers in washington and london
“The calls are coming from inside the house.”
Our enemies are in our own Deep State.
There were valid reasons for the suspicion around General Milley and the entire Pentagon apparatus.
Factually, President Trump’s strategic approach toward foreign threats and foreign intervention (through the use of geopolitical economic pressure) was a major paradigm shift that removed the Defense Department from a primary role, and placed them back into a more appropriate ‘contingency’ role when it came to foreign policy and national security.
It was obvious from the outset of the Trump administration that the Pentagon did not like that position.
And….
Another example: To confront the extremism creating the turmoil in Afghanistan, President Trump placed the burden of bringing the Taliban to the table of governance upon primary influence agent Pakistan. Here again, with U.S. support, Pakistan is the leading influence agent over the Taliban in Afghanistan; the Trump administration correctly established the responsibility and gives clear expectations for U.S. support.
If Pakistan doesn’t change their influence objective toward a more constructive alignment with a nationally representative Afghanistan government, it is Pakistan who will be held accountable. Again, the correct and effective appropriation of responsibility upon the influence agent who can initiate the solution, Pakistan.
And…
However, take away U.S. military power and influence, or worse yet, stop using U.S. military power, and the leaders within the military industrial complex start to sense their institution becoming functionally obsolescent. Overlay this U.S. military fear with pre-existing ideological differences and the situation gets worse. This is what President Trump was facing in the background as the Pentagon viewed the Trump economic strategy as a threat to their previous geopolitical mission under all previous administrations.
Unfortunately, like all other issues in the era of hyper-polarization, normally liberal Democrats would be alarmed about military leadership going rogue with their own agenda. However, as long as that agenda was anti-Trump, the political-left with a totalitarian outlook are now okay with it.
Our government is rotten to the core. Trump just showed us the truth,.
As an addition to the prior “Mike”.
Presidernt Trump knew how to play, that is why “they” all joined up to remove him.
The 9/11 operation was apparently funded out of the old Saudi locker room. The “Donald” teamed up with the Crown Prince to clear out the trash. Hence, no ne terrorism to justify the grift. Iran was stirring the pot in Iraq until Gen. Soleimani’s unfortunate “accident” at the airport brought that up short. Putin tried to hustle the game at Deir ez Zor with “plain wrapper” contractors who gave target practice to the Air Force and Army fly-boys (and girls). President Trump saw “the game” and blocked the plays, the grift and the cheap career advancement. Obama/Biden/Clinton were selling arms and supplies to ISIS. Hunter was the bag-man for Europe and especially the Ukrainian area for the “Big Guy”. President Trump ended that scheme. PDJT cut off the game that justified the profit and promotions.
Unfortunately, he underestimated the depth of the game and cut and ran when it got “interesting”.
Again, there is profit in terrorism so expect more blood and bodies. The “Big Guy” will be there for his cut.
A homosexual, leftist, academic, intellectual relative came by my house after 9/11. I had a big flag up. He said, in a condescending and gently disgusted drawl, “Aaaand … what … traumatic event will cause you to take it down?”
OK, it was funny.
The traumatic event was the last 20 years. The total fraud of the wars, the cynical abuse of naive patriotism by the DC insiders, ghouls, who made a fortune off of the corpses and severed limbs of tens of thousands of American military personnel and countless maimed and slaughtered foreigners, the waste of trillions of dollars that went into unidentified pockets, all for NOTHING, to do things that damaged the country, that did no good for anybody except the people who got the money.
That was the traumatic event.
It occurred in slow motion, but that just made it more effective and permanent.
The next terrorist attack which is permitted by the USGov, and the ensuing bogus, whipped-up patriotic fervor, the next cynical justification for slaughter and theft, will find no flag on my porch.
The flag is down.
Permanently.
Fuck these people.
Prof. van Creveld just posted an interesting take on the way the US has always justified the mistreatment of women among the savages as the primary propaganda trope to whip up among the American populace enthusiasm–or at least a sense of righteous gallantry–for various adventures.
There are many of us who do not believe 9/11 was what it was supposed to be, a foreign attack . That there have been no other attacks, supports this view.
It seams obvious that if endless swarms of foreigners can illegally cross the US border then endless canisters of sarin gas, high explosive demolition charges, RPGs, automatic weapons, etc, etc, can also cross the border.
So also can large numbers of foreign soldiers. Hence, if there has been no state attack upon the US, then it has only been because no foreign state wanted to attack us.
About 9/11, I used to argue with people about this, and occasionally I still do. I think there is no reasonable case that 9/11 was “an inside job.” I note that the 9/11 truther movie Loose Change claims (for example) that the Empire State Building was struck by a B-52 in 1944, which is nonsense. The B-52 is an 8-engine jet bomber that first flew circa 1952, by the way. What actually hit the ESB was a B-25, a WWII-era twin engine prop plane vastly smaller than the B-52. There is no honest way to make such a clumsy obvious mistake, so I conclude that Loose Change is nothing but a complete and deliberate fabrication.
But why bother, since literally millions of people watched the planes hit the towers live? Hmmmm….
One other thing I recall is hearing soon after that attack a story- on NPR, I think- about how the shredders at the FBI and CIA were in high gear. Hmmm…. Later, George Bush put Jamie Gorelick- the architect of the policy that prevented the FBI and CIA from sharing intelligence- on the 9/11 commission, which I found infuriating.
What’s the point of all this rambling? First, I suspect the whole 9/11 truther movement has been nothing more than Deep State “stray voltage” to keep people from asking ugly questions about the numb inability of our expensive bureaucracy to protect the US from attack, despite many warnings. Gorelick was there to keep the questions answered “correctly”, and in any case the documentation was gone. The followup was the 9/11 truther FUD, I think intended in the same manner as the endless JFK conspiracy talk was motivated in part to avoid having to talk about how Kennedy was killed by a Castro-loving communist.
Second, the reason why there has been no foreign state attack has only been because no foreign state wanted to attack us. I’m repeating that for emphasis, btw.
How long should we expect that to continue, under the present idiotic regime? I dunno, but I suspect we don’t have 20 more years.
With respect to 9/11 truther conspiracy theories, consider the source.
We habve had a number of small jihadist attacks in Florida and San Bernardino CA. Nation states have avoided provocation for 20 years but Biden may invite one.
“the reason why there has been no foreign state attack has only been because no foreign state wanted to attack us”
My current working theory is that 9/11 wasn’t really ever supposed to happen–Pakistan didn’t think their lapdogs in AQ were actually capable of pulling something of that scale off. Small scale attacks in far off places are fine, but a major hit in the US was not what the ISI wanted at all.
Next big question–what the heck is the real story of the Las Vegas attack? Remember that AQ claimed him as theirs as it was happening, which was dismissed with “oh, they claim every attack”, an assertion that was backed up by…nothing at all, because it’s ludicrously untrue.
And finally, yes, I confess that there is literally nothing I couldn’t be easily convinced of concerning the direct involvement of the CIA in these or any other attacks. They certainly pass the “cui bono” test…
I suspect the whole 9/11 truther movement has been nothing more than. . .
How about:
. . . the output of a large number of individuals who are mostly ignorant about history, technology and basic data-analysis principles, and who are therefore systematically credulous about hare-brained theories peddled by charlatans.
Speaking of JFK, if you wanted to screen people for truther tendencies you could do worse than show them the Oliver Stone movie and then ask if they now believed that a conspiracy of US military and intelligence operatives was really the most likely explanation for the Kennedy assassination.
We have had a number of small jihadist attacks in Florida and San Bernardino CA.
I was thinking of the San Bernadino attack when I was writing all that.
Summing up the interesting bits, a women was fast-tracked through the immigration system- despite attending a radical mosque in Pakistan- and then went on to shoot various people who organized a baby shower for her. Meanwhile, American servicemen in the same situation suffered from years of delays bringing their wives and children into the country. An acquaintance of the jihadis was quoted as saying that there were “so many sleeper cells just waiting” which inspired the US government to do nothing at all. And then the story went away.
It may well be that there has been no state level attack on the US because there has been no need- that is, they already have de facto control of the government and any attack would simply threaten what they already have.
JFK — I strongly recommend careful consideration of Bonar Menninger’s 1992 book “Mortal Error”. He presents a lot of forensic evidence suggesting that Oswald did indeed shoot Kennedy from the Book Depository, but the kill shot was an accidental firing from a Secret Service agent in the car following the President.
And yes, there was a cover up. Johnson decided not to tell the American people the truth that their President had been accidentally killed by his own Secret Service, and so arranged the suppression of certain evidence — which stimulated the doubts about the official line which remain to this day. Johnson, by the way, as President prohibited the Secret Service from driving behind his car.
These days, “Truthers” are people who believe that Biden* got 80 Million votes, or that Biden* is in control of his own actions, or that “science” tells us Catastrophic Anthropogenic Global Warming is a real threat, or that the CDC is acting in the best interests of the American people, or that the Federal Reserve is independent, or that the NYT reliably reports the news. In a world in which so much of what the Establishment tells us is clearly incomplete at best or often simply plain wrong, why should people not have doubts about 9/11 ?
My current working theory is that 9/11 wasn’t really ever supposed to happen–Pakistan didn’t think their lapdogs in AQ were actually capable of pulling something of that scale off. Small scale attacks in far off places are fine, but a major hit in the US was not what the ISI wanted at all.
Shrug. I don’t know what to believe any more. This may well be true, but I also note that Xiden’s handler’s apparently released a classified report showing the 9/11 attackers had support from the Saudis as well. So there was more than one cook in the kitchen.
Next big question–what the heck is the real story of the Las Vegas attack?
Just after this happened, before any official report was issued, I read a certain libertarian and gun-rights blogger state that he had a source in the Las Vegas PD who told him that the shooter was a full-on never-Trump nutter. He wrote this deep in a comment thread, and in any case his site been down for months, so I can’t substantiate that in any way.
But my guess is that the local police investigated, found out about the deranged never-Trumping and hatred of potential Trump supporters- and this is when one of them informed that particular blogger. Then, the Feds and their media allies quickly figured out that the real story hurt the Deep State narrative, so the investigation was shut down fast and hard. Last thing I recall was the claim that the shooter cased a rap concert, which somehow meant he couldn’t have been intending to shoot potential Trump supporters later, because shut up.
JFK ”” I strongly recommend careful consideration of Bonar Menninger’s 1992 book “Mortal Error”.
Ugh, $17.75 on Amazon and no kindle. I’m interested, but not quite that much. Added to cart, though.
Speaking of JFK, if you wanted to screen people for truther tendencies you could do worse than show them the Oliver Stone movie and then ask if they now believed that a conspiracy of US military and intelligence operatives was really the most likely explanation for the Kennedy assassination.
No comment, as I’ve never seen that movie- or any other Oliver Stone movie for that matter.
30-odd years ago, American Heritage published an article by Robert Steele Gordon, titled, “What we lost in The Great War”.
https://www.americanheritage.com/what-we-lost-great-war
Reading it, I realized that one of the major issues facing us — and it has gotten dire of late — is that Classical Liberalism morphed into what is essentially PostModern Liberalism.
No, there’s nothing of it directly in that piece, but it does offer a foundation for that assertion.
The Classical Liberal arrogantly looked at Western Civ as the 20th century began, and thought how Great And Powerful it was, how clean and pristine, ignoring the presence of stupid humans there to eph things up.
Then The Great War happened, and rubbed their noses in how utterly stupid humans could be, no matter how wonderful the gifts they’d been given. Indeed, they could stupidly misuse those gifts. Many of them turned on Western Civ with the attitude of a woman scorned — “burn it to the ground, and the hell with the results!” And thus was born PostModernism, esp. as applied to liberalism.
The entire goal of PostModernism is the complete and total destruction of Western Civilization. It attacks on multiple levels, via deconstruction, structuralism, moral relativity, etc., the very foundations upon which Western Civ has not only succeeded but thrived.
And in so doing, Western Civ has elevated humanity in a manner unimaginable to anyone before 1800. Sure, we now have the capacity to kill billions with some stupid actions, but, to counter this, we also have shown the power to massively raise the living conditions of BILLIONS within less than a single generation. From 1990 to 2010, humanity went from >35% of its population living in Abject Poverty to less than 10%… And this despite adding a BILLION people to the planet.
PostModernism attacks the twin foundational aspects of Western Civ:
1 — the inheritance of Greek Thought and Ideal
2 — the inheritance of the Judeo-Christian ethos
They (PML — PostModern Liberalism) reject these, not by saying, “hey, is there anything better?” and seeking possibly better things — no, PML says, there is no good, bad, or otherwise (a ludicrous assertion, but really really great when you want to avoid personal responsibility for your own mistakes and failures), thus both 1 and 2 are clearly worthless ideas.
At that time — early 90s, many liberals still remained as “Classical Liberals”, people who believed in America and, if not fully proud of her, at least believing she had promise.
Since then, the vast majority of self-defined liberals are PMLs, and they directly or indirectly support the destruction of everything that makes The West great, of everything in it that elevates humanity to a higher, better expectation.
Many, likely, don’t see what the end result is, because they’re incapable of connecting the dots to make a trend line. But the destruction of our civilization will not be a pretty thing. And our grandchildren will curse our names for being so stupid.
}}} There are many of us who do not believe 9/11 was what it was supposed to be, a foreign attack . That there have been no other attacks, supports this view.
There are many who believe in a flat earth. That there is no proof to be found that they are wrong, supports this view.
One has to wonder what idiocy you actually support, here, PenGun
1) The planes actually did not bring down the WTC? That what crashed into the Pentagon actually wasn’t even a plane?
2) That it was actually a bunch of Jews (i.e., Israelis) on the planes, masquerading as Muslims?
3) That GWB knew of the attack, and decided to do nothing.
The only one of those three that you would NOT have to be an abysmal moron to actually argue in favor of is #3. It’s in the same category as Roosevelt and Pearl. Possible, but not all that likely. If you support one of the other two, by all means, tell us, so we can laugh and laugh and laugh at you.
Yeah, we’re already doing that, but the mirth would be less “SMH” and more “What a maroon”.
it was an action by al queda, supported by not an insignificant section, of saudi financial and governmental figures,(see the 28 pages,) many of the former names, like qadi, bin mahfouz, alamoudi, have insulated themselves through lawfare, the same neat trick dominion has done, now the ritz carlton raid caught many of those in the net, this is why they don’t like prince salman turning on them,
re stone, he was following garrison, who in turn had swallowed the whole dezinforma that mitrokhin first uncovered, and max holland fleshed out, thats where the whole clay shaw fustercluck came from,
Xennady: “Ugh, $17.75 on Amazon”
On the other hand, a good used hardcover copy is only $5.19 from Thriftbooks. I have had a lot of success with used books from that source, and the best thing — it is not Amazon!
https://www.thriftbooks.com/browse/?b.search=Mortal%20Error%3A%20The%20Shot%20That%20Killed%20JFK#b.s=mostPopular-desc&b.p=1&b.pp=30&b.oos&b.tile
Any love for Bugliosi’s two-volume work on 11/22?
I think I browsed the book mentioned earlier, or the personal account of the supposed SS agent accidental shooter. Wasn’t sure I hadn’t dreamt it up.
Bush’s complicity in 9/11 is that he knowingly protected the Saudis and concealed what he knew or should have known about their neck-deep involvement.
For a little historical sidelight on the foundation of US-SA relations, go look at the memorandum of conversation between FDR and King Abdul onboard the Quincy, 2 Feb 1945 (FRUS). It’s short but extremely interesting. This was the meeting where FDR was thrilled to meet a noble desert warlord, one who brought some of his slaves along.
}}} So also can large numbers of foreign soldiers. Hence, if there has been no state attack upon the US, then it has only been because no foreign state wanted to attack us.
Perhaps because if there is one thing that 911 taught the world, “don’t kick a hornet’s nest”
Every few decades peeps have to be reminded of this, when “counting coup” against us doesn’t seem enough for the current generation of foreign idiots .
At some point, our patriotic bunch may decide it’s not worth it, but when that happens, the shit is already flying at the fan, it’s just not struck it yet.
that was the formality, the real deal was made in 1932, between loomis formerly a deputy secretary of state, and st john philby, the fmr advisor from the Indian Branch of the Foreign Office who had become Ibn Saud’s counselor, out of that was born the oil concession that was Aramco, now the Germans through Fritz Grobba, had tried to broker a later deal with less success,
The FDR, ibn Saud meeting was just acknowledging what the British learned about oil and the Royal Navy, In those days, God, with a sense of humor, put oil in those primitive states that were still living in the 8th century and forced the West to deal with them. What is harder to understand is why sentient beings in the Biden regime want to end domestic oil production and force us to beg the Saudis for more oil.
}}} The B-52 is an 8-engine jet bomber that first flew circa 1952, by the way. What actually hit the ESB was a B-25, a WWII-era twin engine prop plane vastly smaller than the B-52. There is no honest way to make such a clumsy obvious mistake, so I conclude that Loose Change is nothing but a complete and deliberate fabrication.
But why bother, since literally millions of people watched the planes hit the towers live?
The Ignorant Twatwaffle Class would claim that that still shows what is expectable with a plane striking a building…
Ignorant, because there was a massive difference in building techniques between the 1930s and the 1960s/70s, with the WTC was being built. The ESB is FAR FAR more massive a structure than the WTC was. I will lay huge odds that the people in that building felt it sway several feet when the planes struck.
Moreover, an architect I know said after 911 that if that had been done to a “then more modern” skyscraper, it would have failed to bring it down… Because “then modern” (e.g. 2000-era construction) would have used pre-stressed, reinforced concrete on the outside, not the steel beams that the WTC used — the difference is that the exterior concrete would have sheared off the wings, where all that jet fuel on the nearly full plane was stored — and, while there would have been a really spectacular fireball on the outside of the building, and lots of broken glass and scorch marks, there would have been far less of an internal inferno to soften the main structural components of the building, leading to a single floor collapse triggering a domino effect to rip out the level after level of the internal stabilizing beams holding the outer walls together.
So many Dunning Kruger poster children can be identified just by their opinions on 911 conspiracies.
I love the “No intact parts” of the Pentagon Strike (proving it was a missile), as well as Rosie’s brilliant “Fire can’t melt steel!” comment. Don’t even get me started on the “Building 7” issue.
}}} Speaking of JFK, if you wanted to screen people for truther tendencies you could do worse than show them the Oliver Stone movie and then ask if they now believed that a conspiracy of US military and intelligence operatives was really the most likely explanation for the Kennedy assassination.
The real issue with the Stone movie is the problem of what parts are overt lies, or doubtful claims presented as truths.
You should watch the “directors cut” version, where there is an interesting claim thrown out, but was elided from the theatrical cut because it talks about Clay Shaw before he’s “found out about” in the movie itself.
I’m personally open to the “mortal error” idea, simply because it does wrap up the main issue with conspiracies — “Three may keep a secret, if two of them are dead”. The more people involved in such a thing, the more tendency there is to “cheat” — as with any monopoly, this being a monopoly on information. I can see a lot of people carrying that secret to their deaths, both from shame of the event and from the same of hiding it.
And it does deal with the issues raised by the Zapruder film.
On the other hand, a good used hardcover copy is only $5.19 from Thriftbooks.
Thanks for that link. I bought it.
}}} I think intended in the same manner as the endless JFK conspiracy talk was motivated in part to avoid having to talk about how Kennedy was killed by a Castro-loving communist.
One of the most legit challenges to the “Oswald, and only Oswald” assertion is mentioned as an aside in Posner’s book about the assassination: apparently, Oswald went hunting with some russian cronies when he was living there… using a shotgun. Supposedly, he could not hit the broad side of a barn door, with a shotgun, at 20 paces. Then he comes back here and supposedly pulls off a shooting feat that, at least purportedly, was not a trivial one? Not “disproof” or anything, but it does qualify as one of those many “things that make you go, ‘Hmmmm….?’!” surrounding the whole debacle.
Again, I’m down with any explanation like that of Mortal Error, though.
I stood in the Dallas Book Depository window where Oswald was. It was surprising how close the street was . That was an easy shot for a guy who qualified with an M-1. The car was only going 2-3 miles per hour.
Perhaps because if there is one thing that 911 taught the world, “don’t kick a hornet’s nest”
That was the lesson taught for a while just after the attack. I think a much different lesson has been taught lately.
…and, while there would have been a really spectacular fireball on the outside of the building, and lots of broken glass and scorch marks, there would have been far less of an internal inferno to soften the main structural components of the building…
I believe flat none of the 9/11 usual conspiracies. But if there’s one that manages to barely approach plausibility, it’s the idea that what today we’d call the Deep State arranged for the planes to crash into the buildings but didn’t imagine that they’d actually collapse. I still think that’s a stretch even for the Deep State, but give me a little while longer…
Don’t even get me started on the “Building 7” issue.
This seems to be where the latest conspiracies have fixated upon, in my limited experience. I suppose knocking down the twin towers just wasn’t spectacular enough for some folks.
It’s more nonsense, and I won’t get started on it either…
Mike K: “I stood in the Dallas Book Depository window where Oswald was.”
Now we know! Mike K was not on the Grassy Knoll after all! 😊
The kick off for Menninger’s book was a TV show that tried to do a reconstruction of Oswald’s shot. Turned out to be quite feasible. That was the full metal jacket bullet which hit Kennedy, continued through Governor Connally, and was recovered on the stretcher, bent but intact. Quite different characteristics from the bullet that hit the back of Kennedy’s head and disintegrated.
}}} That was the lesson taught for a while just after the attack. I think a much different lesson has been taught lately.
Mrrr. That it did not have the long-term effect desired, well, that’s political stupidity, not that it isn’t a lesson.
The Taliban today is not the same Taliban as back then. And a lot of that lot certainly got killed as a part of the process.
P.J. O’Rourke commented on the fact that we NEED a top-notch military, because any nation with the kind of insanely goofy foreign policy we have needs it desperately.
The schizoid process, swapping between self-destructive PMLs and generally more intelligent (note: “generally”, not consistently) Conservatives is a major part of the issues.
}}} Don’t even get me started on the “Building 7” issue.
This seems to be where the latest conspiracies have fixated upon, in my limited experience.
This is because it fell, even though “it wasn’t struck”. All you need to do is look at pix of the site as it was being prepared, to realize that there was an underground complex of open areas and tunnels and such, to know that the energy that came downward, in addition to the dust and debris and melting the ground-level structures, ALSO went into the underground spaces and almost certainly knocked out connected supporting structures under B7.
Again, it’s Dunning-Kruger poster children. :-P
}}} I stood in the Dallas Book Depository window where Oswald was. It was surprising how close the street was . That was an easy shot for a guy who qualified with an M-1. The car was only going 2-3 miles per hour.
Well, not to support Stone, but the chief issue is that the kill shot was not the first shot, but the third, which is known from the very inconvenient Zapruder film. And anyone who knows shooting would realize that the first shot is going to be your most accurate one. The car also sped up once the shooting started. Not a lot, but it did. Yes, there is room in the world for “Stupid Wild-Assed Luck”. But the behavior of that third bullet, with its relatively bizarre trajectory required by, again, that oh-so-inconvenient film, is also where things get somewhat hinky.
This is why I have a liking for the Mortal Error idea. It explains the coverup, and the willingness of many to go along with it even when they had to know better. The FBI had not been subverted at that point, and, while it may well have been willing to do some things in support of the State, it would have been hard to get all those who had to have access to real facts to go along with anything resembling a cover-up, unless you could convince them it was in the best interests of the people — and knowing that a stupid eph-up of a SService guy misfiring killed Kennedy would be pretty demoralizing.
The best argument AGAINST it is that it hasn’t come out as “yes, that’s the answer” by this point. I don’t think anyone would have an issue with it being demoralizing now.
“The FBI had not been subverted at that point”
Say what? The FBI was born subverted…
@Brian,
Not quite true, that… It was more that it was the subversion itself… An utterly illegitimate arrogation of power by the corrupt, enabled and winked at by the “progressive”. A hundred years on, and it has openly become what it was clearly meant to be from the beginning–A corrupt secret police.
Handwriting was on the wall with Hoover. Name another institution in any American context that was run by its virtual founder for 50+ years without a single successful attempt at displacing him, and with that founder only being removed from his appointment by death.
You cannot name one. That is what you might call “The giant flaming pink elephant in the room”.
Founded in corruption, run as Wilson’s bully-boys and thugs, and as such remaining for the next hundred years. The original “Red Scare” is illustrative of their actual legacy, not “fighting crime”. It was always about power and blackmail–One rather wonders what they learned and had in their files between that initial unauthorized set-up within the Justice Department and their actual Congressional authorization.
bob baer (who seems to be a little eccentric, and egotistical) did a series surveiling the assasination, where he followed the trails, he concluded the acoustics proved the single bullet theory, but he had an interesting theory about oswald’s motivation, based on his bus stub, he was supposed to go in another direction, from the path when he crossed jd tippets path, that suggests he was acting on behalf of other parties, but that’s not the end of it,
Still nothing about Bugliosi? I was intrigued at the time but never got around to tackling it.
I did read Posner, and his MLK book also. I had a minor hand in the MLK one, as he did some research in my place.
Wasn’t Oswald rated a sharpshooter or marksman in the USMC? Or was Sergeant Hartmann just bullshitting? ‘-)
The shot made by Oswald was well within the documented range of his skills. The same with the rifle he had, which has received a lot of unfair criticism because “Italian”. What’s forgotten is that while that’s the rifle they were carrying when they lost WWII, it’s also the same one they won WWI with, and there are a lot of strong points to it.
I don’t know who killed Kennedy. I don’t know that that is at all important, really–What I do know is that the people that succeeded him turned him into a martyr, and the shitshow that was his presidency into Camelot, which is arguably the biggest lie of the 20th Century.
The only thing saving Kennedy from a well-deserved obscurity after anyone gave his term a rational evaluation is that he was killed, and that made him a martyr. Never mind the vote fraud, never mind the betrayal at the Bay of Pigs, never mind the fact he spent a good chunk of his term drugged out of his mind on the same crap they gave Hitler, never mind all the things he got wrong during the Cuban Missile Crisis that he enabled, or any of the other true features of his administration like giving the OK for Diem’s assassination in Vietnam or entangling us there after Eisenhower adroitly kept us the hell out. The raw fact is, Kennedy was a POS fuckup, a womanizing jackass that was notorious for bypassing the security at the White House to get his whores in, and all of the rest. He’s actually lucky he got killed before any of that crap came out, because when it did…? His reputation in life and history would have been done for.
No, the real crime wasn’t shooting Kennedy, it was turning him into a martyred hero, something the Democrats have been using for decades to overrun any opposition. Frankly, I think that if you want to go looking for conspirators, look at LBJ and the other “hidden leaders” of the Democratic Party of that era. They had good reason to fear Kennedy’s BS getting out, and one way to stop it and save themselves was to have him killed.
Which give ya pause to think… Perhaps Biden is slated for a similar fate.
Knowing who killed JFK ‘for sure’ would be worth a great deal to me, but I’m a historian and YMMV.
As for the followup, I can’t disagree. Camelot schpamalot.
Right on J. Edgar too. The classic profile–who is more motivated to snoop than the guy with a lot to hide?
The stories of Hoover’s “proclivities” are obvious hoaxes and not to be taken seriously.
Lots of people laughing at the obvious FBI agents hanging out in DC yesterday at that fake event. Not really sure what’s funny about them telegraphing openly that they will infiltrate and suppress and destroy any conservative protest movement…
The Hoov’s worst and most provable ‘proclivity’ was spying on people whose politics he didn’t like and trying to harass them out of public life.
A sexual perversion would help explain his obsession with finding out about other peoples’ perversions; maybe the stories are obvious hoaxes, maybe not.
At any rate, it’s already been pointed out that 50-year tenures in powerful public offices isn’t really a good idea.
I saw some of the pix from the 1/6 Happening too–I wonder how many of those lean and hungry young gents are Rainbow Boys.
Would the Hoov be proud?
Hoover was a sociopath, he just wasn’t a cross dressing homosexual sociopath.
The FBI headquarters needs to be levelled, and the organization abolished, with their records all made completely public, housed in a free library built on the ruins.
Hoover was a secret policemen (i know the bureau is not supposed to be that) he was concerned with internal threats, like communism, one can argue how much he should have been investigating organized crime, but then you compare with anslinger, who did challenge the mob both here and abroad,
he didn’t like radicals, intellectuals,
The fact that a bunch of psychopaths rule is only ONE part of the equation. The true, WHOLE, but “politically inconvenient” and “culturally forbidden” reality is more encompassing. Read “The 2 Married Pink Elephants In The Historical Room –The Holocaustal Covid-19 Coronavirus Madness: A Sociological Perspective & Historical Assessment Of The Covid “Phenomenon”” by Rolf Hefti at https://www.rolf-hefti.com/covid-19-coronavirus.html
Without a proper understanding, and full acknowledgment, of the true WHOLE problem and reality, no real constructive LASTING change is possible.
this fellow has been describing the slide for a year now
https://computingforever.com/2021/09/14/the-agenda-is-escalating-the-new-world-order/